Judgement Begins with the Church and Believers

For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? And if the righteous scarcely (with great difficulty) be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.(I Peter 4:17-19)

Often times, when reading through the various threads in the Faith, Spirituality, Theology forums, it seems I will come upon ceratin posts in relation to Faith, where the poster will make statements regarding how they once believed in God and because of negative circumstances which developed in their life, sometimes catastrophic events, these individuals determined that God had failed them and the outcome produced a hardened heart toward God and ultimately, they laid aside their faith, turning back into the world.

Too many preachers today are not being up front where this walk of faith is concerned. There are many believers, as well as preachers, falling by the wayside today, throwing in, as it were, the towel (faith). Why is this? I personally believe this is the result of many individuals having come into the faith, being lead under the assumption that once they place their faith in Christ, every circumstance regarding life will become smooth, when in fact, the opposite is true. Someone once asked, “How can I be sure that I have been filled with the Holy Spirit, what is the obvious sign?” The reply, “Some would say tongues. I say, trouble.” We can chuckle at that response, but honestly, as the scripture states, “We must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God (Acts 14:22). I tell people, by the time God is worked His work within us and we have gone through all He has set before us during this walk, there should be no part of us that desires this life or this world any longer.

So what is this Judgement which Peter speaks of in the opening verse which the house of god and the believer must go through?

But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.(I Cor 11:32)

Aside from chastisement, the believer must also recognize that they will face: partaking of Christ’s sufferings, corruption of nature, law of sin waging war with the mind, frequent temptations of the flesh and Satan, wrestling with principalities and powers, personal afflictions, persecutions and many tribulations during life.

Like I stated earlier, by the time we have come to the end of this life, we should have no desire for this life, if indeed, the will of God has been worked out in our life. This is why the righteous are scarcely saved, which means, they are saved, with great difficulty, if they arrive at the finish line still holding their faith. Paul is the clearest example of this fact. Examine everything that man endured in his life and in this walk, and when he came to the point of execution, the only thing he could say, was, “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith.” (II Tim 4:7)

Therefore, if anyone is being tempted or has been tempted to throw in the towel where faith is concerned, consider what I have stated and realize, regardless of what one has experienced, no matter how catastrophic, if believers have an advantage where the unbelieving are concerned, it is that God can take, what was intended to destroy you, and turn the tables around and cause only good to come out of it in the end, if, you do not lose your faith. (Romans 8:28)

You're RIGHT! This is a seldom discussed point for MANY churches, because of $$$ and fearing to offend someone.
We are held to a higher standard because WE KNOW the Truth!

Another aspect, seldom discussed is that the Tribulation is going to send the Christians that aren't Raptured straight to the antichrist to choose Him or DEATH. The churches are judged first. Then those that take the mark and worship the Beast will be judged from God with fire and brimstone!

The bible tells us to 'judge ourselves, so that we won't be condemned'.

reply to post by Clearskies


Paul gave some good advice and the scripture you quoted in regard to judging ourselves FIRST is one of those. I think it is just human nature to look away from ourselves when it comes to judging!

Excellent, excellent thread, JD.

I keep trying to make this more than a one liner but there is nothing you left out!



Indeed, everything you said is right on the money.

reply to post by jdposey



Let's not forget Roman's 2:1

Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

You couldn't see fault in anyone else if you yourself weren't, at some point, guilty of the same thing. Great post!

Really good thread. If I may, I'd like to say a few things. Presently I have been praying for strength and inner peace and many other things. I have been disappointed that they have not been forthcoming. I was thinking of walking out (yet again). But Peter was asked if he was also going to leave. His answer was, "Where shall i go, you have the words of life?" and even Christ said, "My God, My god, why hast thou forsaken me." And even Job said, "Even if he kills me I will still trust him." Who else is worthy of our trust even in our darkest moments? I can't go. There is nowhere safer to go. Even if God does not grant me my requests. I cannot leave him. He is the safest place to be. It is times like this when he plays the distant father, but in fact it only seems so, he is always there. "I will never leave you or forsake you." Let's see, if I go, who do I turn to? shall i go to the evolutionists? No, I don't think so. Will I try another religion and make God jealous and angry so he will smite me until I am flat as a pancake? I have felt his wrath before, it was not pleasant. He can get to you where the devil cannot because the devil is limited and can only be in one place at a time. Read Psalm 88. In the middle of that Psalm it explains exactly how I feel. It is a dark place to be. But thank God it will not last forever. Shall we gather at the river? Yes, we'll gather at the river, the beautiful river of God.

Thanks, Ashley and Inverted!

Like I said, having read some comments on the forum from people who have experienced some rough times in their life as Christians, and state they no longer believed, if anything, I just wanted to bring this side of the issue up, where the walk of faith is concerned- in hopes of having them to realize and, perhaps reconsider, they are not alone.

We all will have our struggles and tribulations, yes, some catastrophic, but we can’t allow the enemy to gain victory in any situation; in the end, over riding our faith and leading us to believe we have been abandoned and forsaken by God.

reply to post by theleastofthese


I read Psalms 88 after reading your post and yes, I have to tell you, I have been in this place, and I might add, by my own hand, did I arrive at that place. Of course, I have always said in regard to my own life, who needs to worry about Satan when it seems my biggest enemy has been myself .

You are correct though, you can walk away, but, where will you go? It is best to stay where you are, let God do what He is doing. In my past experience, when I haven't been able to see God working in and around me, that is when he is preparing something of great benefit. The key is to wait on the Lord and not go anywhere. I assure you, no matter how it is that you have come to find yourself in this current position, in time, you will look back and be able to say, “If I had not gone through that, I would not have arrived at the place I find myself now”. And, that place will be far better in comparison to where you came away from, in regard to your personal experience of God’s faithfulness to you.

That's why such ideas as the "rapture" is absurd. The tribulation is actually the final test of the "faithful."

Excellent post JD. I was talking to Ashley the other day and this very thing came up. I don't remember the exact context of the conversation, but it was something along the lines of the difficulty we face in trying to get a positive message in edge wise around here. I think we were a little frustrated at the time; and I remembered something I heard one of my pastors say... "If you are doing Gods work you can almost gauge the value of the work you're doing by the level of opposition you encounter." The enemy does not like it when we disprove zeigeist or take a stand against abortion or defend the Bibles accuracy. He will inspire hearts against us.

On a more personal note - the Christian life is a struggle against the flesh. It's an uphill battle. There's no coasting up hill only down. I just got another warning for calling someone a fruit loop. Oh well temper got the best of me I guess. One of favorite sayings is: If you are not struggling against sin, it's because you're already sold out to evil.

Hey JD! Does that sound narrow minded to you?
didn't think so.


[edit on 3/11/2008 by Bigwhammy]

This is obvious.... We are definitely here to carry the cross... padre Pio said if every body knew the meaning of suffering, people would only want to suffer.........in this life...

this also shows you that once saved always saved is not true......

peace.

Reply to BigWhammy

No, Whammy, that doesn't sound narrow minded at all, but, fruit loop? Ha. Yes, you will have to watch yourself, otherwise, before too long we will be calling you BigWarrny.

You are correct in what you stated regarding the struggle against the flesh. Like the scripture says, “For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. (Galatians 5:17). Unfortunately, we have our moments when we give way to the flesh and ignore the Spirit. Like you said, if we are not struggling against sin, then something is indeed wrong.

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Reply to JesusisTruth

if every body knew the meaning of suffering, people would only want to suffer.........in this life...
I have never heard it stated like that. I suppose that statement reflects the scripture,”For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

As for once saved always saved, from what I have gathered from study of the word, my conclusion is that we are saved, we are being saved and, we shall be saved. It’s an ongoing process and the hope that is within each of us!

How much longer until the tribulation roughly? I know no one really knows but it could still be 100 years or more.

[edit on 12-3-2008 by MissInformation]

reply to post by MissInformation


I suppose there are some out there who feel more informed than others, but, no, I don't think anyone has that inside knowledge.

Of course, it would be something if God were going according to the Hebrew calendar, if indeed he were working by dates, and since the Hebrew calendar reflects the year 5768, I suppose someone could figure a time line of 6000 years, subtract and presume we have 232 years to go. Of course, could man survive that long without blowing themselves up? Probably not.

I think the best calculation I have heard, came by way of AshleyD when it was mentioned that God is more than likely working in numbers, rather than dates, in addressing the time of the Gentiles coming in and that number being fulfilled. I think that is great insight and sounds convincing to me, that God would calculate the end time in this fashion, concealing it by number rather than date, preventing the possibility and likelihood of men to arrive at any sound date.