Have Christians Been Duped?

reply to post by Elisha4Yah

Here's where you confused me. You were a Christian then left Christianity or (religion) but now call yourself a "spiritual scientist". So there is where I'm confused. You left one religion because you felt it was bondage or controlling and went into another religion?? Do you understand that religion or 'christianity' is not a prerequisite to believing the Word of God/Son nor to worshipping Him? In His own words.....:

No I am not part of any religion, nor do I choose to be. And of course I certainly understand that religion is not required to have a closeness with God or his son, I believe now that it is far preferable to do it without a religion so as not to be swayed by it. I recommend that you read my posting that was a few before yours to understand what it is I was saying.

Perhaps you are not aware that - spirituality is not the same as being religious! In my opinion it is very difficult to be spiritual and be religious at the same time as they tend to work against each other. I understand that this may be heresy to you but try to keep an open mind. I have been exactly where you are and was also a Christian thumper for a very long time. I do not expect you to understand my stance or beliefs. That is okay. I am really writing to those who are of similar minds as that leaves such potential to discuss things that are; "a lie" or part of the Christian conspiracy.

My purpose is to not argue with a Christian. The Christian will always be right because the Greek Scriptures/New Testament was written to insure that they would be! The paradox here is; the fact that so many Christians cannot agree amongst the different religions, yet...they all have the truth?

I have been there done that! I was a walking encyclopedia regarding Bible verse and doctrine for decades. My interest is to discover where Christianity and all religion is wrong, (knowing that there are areas where they are correct).

I am not saying that the Bible is invalid, nor its participants or characters involved within. I am looking to get away from traditional beliefs and look for "New Light!" There is absolutely nothing new under the son with the posts quoting Christian beliefs. None of it is new! Nor are the shaming tactics. I left religion largely and originally because of the false love amongst yourselves and the shaming. All under the guise of: "LOVE."

But what is new? Are we too biased and too threatened to look at new points of view?

I was as dogmatic as the most dramatic amongst you. But I choose to view things in a different light, and to not be afraid of leaving the religious rhetoric behind.

"The Truth shall set you free. But first, it will make you miserable."

Originally posted by MatrixProphet


"The Truth shall set you free. But first, it will make you miserable."

Jesus said,

Jhn 8:31 ¶ Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, [then] are ye my disciples indeed;

Jhn 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

You won't be free, until you accept his word.

Originally posted by MatrixProphet

No I am not part of any religion, nor do I choose to be. And of course I certainly understand that religion is not required to have a closeness with God or his son, I believe now that it is far preferable to do it without a religion so as not to be swayed by it. I recommend that you read my posting that was a few before yours to understand what it is I was saying.

Perhaps you are not aware that - spirituality is not the same as being religious! In my opinion it is very difficult to be spiritual and be religious at the same time as they tend to work against each other. I understand that this may be heresy to you but try to keep an open mind. I have been exactly where you are and was also a Christian thumper for a very long time. I do not expect you to understand my stance or beliefs. That is okay. I am really writing to those who are of similar minds as that leaves such potential to discuss things that are; "a lie" or part of the Christian conspiracy.

Is anybody out there? Can anybody hear me? What is going on? I clearly posted and then you even quoted me where I stated that religion is not a prerequisite to worshiping God. Where you had me confused was stating religion or "christianity" is controlling so you left it, you have it in your head that the bible was written by men to control people and that this is somehow God's trick, now you say you're something of a 'spiritual scientist'=another religious label. Does anyone READ what others are writing before replying?

I read your very first post and you were about as confusing as babylon. You not only left one religion and chose something which I've yet to have defined, but most importantly you left your first love, THE WORD. I'm going to repeat: you can be who you are and never ever step foot into a church, nor cast lot's for any religion per say, but you can be a 'believer' in the infallible Word of God.

"But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." (John 4:23-24)

Yahshua say's this to the woman at the well, read the entire chapter, even if you've read it before..many times, read it again. There are some 'key' words He uses: "true worshippers" "for the Father seeketh such" "God is a Spirit" and therefore those that truly worship him, worship Him in spirit. Not a building, not a holiday, not anything but between you and the Word, that is you and the Son of God. It does not cost anything and there is no starting time or ending time, there is no particular day of the week, you can be dressed in your best garments, or slummed out, or even nothing at all, 24/7 worship, never ceasing, praying, calling upon Him, thinking upon Him, talking about Him, singing to Him, alone or with others, this is what HE wants, His Son said this, not me.

So where did you get confused with what I previously posted and what is a spiritual scientist?

Go back to your bible and deny yourself, you are to decrease and let Him increase...the less you become the greater He comes forth through you

reply to post by idle_rocker


Christianity is pretty much a free ticket to "Do-whatever-the-hell-you-want Land" then? Can't argue there, most Christians do have that sore of attitude. THose few that don't are usually marginalized by other Christians.

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


Definition of science: "Systematic knowledge of the physical or material world gained through observation and experimentation...knowledge, as of facts or principles; knowledge gained by systematic study."

I call myself a spiritual scientist in that I no longer accept doctrine taught by religion as fact but research other possibilities. I question anything propound as fact without any shred of doubt. Many religious doctrines are accepted by the religious majority as truth without sensing if it has a ring of truth to it or not.

Always look for the ring of truth, otherwise start questioning it!

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by idle_rocker

 

Christianity is pretty much a free ticket to "Do-whatever-the-hell-you-want Land" then? Can't argue there, most Christians do have that sore of attitude. THose few that don't are usually marginalized by other Christians.

I just happened to pass by this thread again and I can't for the life of me figure out what I posted that gave you the "do whatever the hell you want land" idea from anything I said. But no, I don't believe that's true at all. I believe we come to him as we are as sinners no matter how terrible we may be. When we ask for forgiveness and do that honestly, we are forgiven. Once that happens, we truly change and try to live more as he asks us to. None of us will never ever be perfect, though. And we all know that. Does that make more sense?

reply to post by idle_rocker


Well, basically you said that no matter what you do, what sin you commit, you are "forgiven." Does this, then, make the concept of hell reserved only for nonchristians who don't have the bus pass to heaven?

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
reply to post by idle_rocker

 

Well, basically you said that no matter what you do, what sin you commit, you are "forgiven." Does this, then, make the concept of hell reserved only for nonchristians who don't have the bus pass to heaven?

Not at all. As a matter of fact, I'm sure there are people who profess Christianity that are not true to it. As far as the concept of hell; I'm still out on that one. That's not what brought me to Christianity so I haven't studied it like I should. Now, since so many folks have asked about it, I think I will study it. So, thanks for bringing it up again. It tells me I need to look into it more; so I will.

Believe it or not...there are many different types of individuals on ATS with many different beliefs. Not all are Christian!

You can believe in anything you choose to believe in, ie, the easter bunny, Santa Claus or the truth fairy, any of the Hallmark holidays. It does not matter one whit to me.

My approach as I have said countless times is; to uncover those who are also searching for truth outside of religion. I along with others are leaving the middle man out (religion) and are wanting an HD (High Definition) relationship with Jah without the middleman's influence.

There is just nothing new in what all of you Christians say and teach, and it is not enough. There are no new arguments as you all have displayed so conscientiously. It becomes a lot of arguing and debating with information that has been argued and debated for many more years than you have been alive.

In all of my threads I have not heard even one post that has displayed any new intelligence from any religious person, it is all the same ritualistic dogma. My threads actually are created to help one to think! Whether one agrees or not!

Note: so I don't have to continually repeat this, I am going to cut and paste this to my other threads.

God would have had to make us simple creatures in order to imagine that we would completely believe in something that has no supporting evidence, and then condemn us for believing in that which does. So...
Either God made a mistake, or Christianity is just simply not true. Great thoughts OP. I'll be looking into this one, it's quite interesting. Thanks!

reply to post by CHRISplusT


Thank you, I will admit to being "out there" in some areas, but then again; why not?

I have no fear of looking and testing. My faith (thank God) is not based on the cross, hell fire, immortality of the soul, the trinity, Jesus being our savior, or even the Bible! Take it all away! I will believe what God is having me sense.

Thanks for your contribution! Keep in touch.
MP

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


hmm not only this, its not a fear tactic, and thats not what Christian has because he is safe and secure in God. Its a WARNING really.... think about it, ew are going out and trying to help hmmm.....

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
reply to post by CHRISplusT

 

Thank you, I will admit to being "out there" in some areas, but then again; why not?

I have no fear of looking and testing. My faith (thank God) is not based on the cross, hell fire, immortality of the soul, the trinity, Jesus being our savior, or even the Bible! Take it all away! I will believe what God is having me sense.

Thanks for your contribution! Keep in touch.
MP

So what is the basis or foundation of what you deem "your faith"? Are you grasping voices out of the thin air? Do you have any idea what a dangerous place you've allowed yourself to enter by rejecting the Bible/Word of God as your foundation of/for and to faith?


John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Do you understand that? No man, not you, nor anyone can get anywhere near the only God of the heavens and earth except through His Son who was crucified for out entrance. So ye know not what you worship! For we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities and powers and the rulers of this DARK world.

Please get back in the Bible! Time is drawing to a close.

reply to post by Elisha4Yah

So what is the basis or foundation of what you deem "your faith"? Are you grasping voices out of the thin air? Do you have any idea what a dangerous place you've allowed yourself to enter by rejecting the Bible/Word of God as your foundation of/for and to faith?

Danger is in your perception!

The Bible is for the religious. It has been used to set the religious up to fail, and has succeeded.

I have direct conscious contact with God and do not need religion or any of its books to give me security. That being said, the Bible has clues inspired by the Gods for modern day sleuths to find, and interpret. It was cunningly and brilliantly inspired. I do not expect you to have the insight to see it.

It was all in the divine plan! If you were to open your eyes, you would be stunned! For it is there for all to see.



[edit on 26-12-2008 by MatrixProphet]

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


Even though you won't approve of my stance, you might want to check out my thread below about Judas and Paul. It will give you more insight as to where I am coming from regarding the Bible, since you seem to be interested.

Thanks.

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


I am curious as to what makes you believe what the bible says is the whole truth? Is it because the bible say's so?

I thought at first that matrix was off her rocker, I could not have been more wrong. she is very down to earth. if you put your bias in the bible aside for a moment then you might be surprised at what you find!

Good read!
Sorry to see this post high jacked by the believers.This is what happens when you touch a nerve in their little box.It is not lost on me the fact that they will preach love,peace and tolerance.That is until you question there beliefs.Then of course your dead ..to them..

Such a sad state of affairs seeing how the believers are legion among many religions and all are true EXCEPT all the others.

My take on religion. If you don't believe in something you fall for anything?Not so fast! any
thing is everything..Why can't we just have pieces of the truth?

Who will put it all together?

[edit on 26-12-2008 by flyingfish]

reply to post by flyingfish

My take on religion. If you don't believe in something you fall for anything?Not so fast! any
thing is everything..Why can't we just have pieces of the truth?

Who will put it all together?

Thank you for your compliment and post!

I have to be a little harsher than I prefer on these sorts of threads because of what I am up against.

The putting of IT together I believe is happening now. It doesn't happen overnight and will not be perfect. But...at least closer than man has perhaps lived, and believed, for centuries!

I guess I am not a boat rocker for nothing (someone's got to do it!), and I am in good company!

Thanks!

Originally posted by MatrixProphet
Danger is in your perception!

Not generally. But for those such as yourself I see red flags surrounding you because you started by saying you were a Christian and then went further to say that you've forsaken the Bible-which is the only way to salvation & continued in stating you've found God somewhere else. Can you not see the folly in your own perception?

The Bible is for the religious.

By your standards maybe. The Bible is for those who value truth and love the only begotten Son of God-by my standards Everyone is "religious" even those that count the Bible as nothing.

It has been used to set the religious up to fail, and has succeeded.

No. But rejecting people over the centuries have done a fantastic job of making others such as yourself believe just that. You have no idea...the Bible is a book; but the Words are alive and the only reason we have them in our sinful hands is because God loved mankind so much to lay down His own for you and me and all those who continue to crucify Him even still. So the antichrists of this world have succeeded so far in deceiving you but have failed by the millions-in fact the faithful believers mentioned in Revelation are so massive that no man can even number them...I do hope you are amongst them

I have direct conscious contact with God and do not need religion or any of its books to give me security.

No you do not. You've rejected the only WAY to God. There is no telling what you are linked with. Could be your own imagination, could be demons/devils, could be all the minds of others who've influenced you into rejecting the Word of God. All that "inner consciousness" stuff sounds almost verbatim to what that old serpent said to Eve...remember?

That being said, the Bible has clues inspired by the Gods for modern day sleuths to find, and interpret. It was cunningly and brilliantly inspired. I do not expect you to have the insight to see it.

"The Gods"? Just how many do you believe there are? Your expectation is limited to your own mind and any insight you claim to have is not something I'm particularly interested in. You are the individual who has limited God, not me.

It was all in the divine plan! If you were to open your eyes, you would be stunned! For it is there for all to see.

[edit on 26-12-2008 by MatrixProphet]

You're actually quite contradictory. So I'm not exactly certain what you're exclaiming about. Once again you've pointed the finger toward me. Do you see the pattern in your own words written here?

You've allowed the world to have victory over you, rather than allowing yourself the victory over the world through the only Victor.

Matthew 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

What will you give in exchange?