Flipside-Christians, what if the Bible isn't true?

Where would we be if we could get past the ideology, the technicalities? What if the basic message became more important than the details? What if Yeshua bar Joseph bar Yahweh was listened to for his words and actions without debating whether he was divine or not? Where would we be if we didn't worry about editing and side stories? If we just harkened to the words of a wise man years, ages beyond his time? What would the world be like if we paid attention to the ideas of peace, love, compassion? What would our world be like if we ignored the fear mongering, the control of us versus them?

Hideous and grotesque things have been done in the name of the man from Galilee. The man who healed the sick, supped with the Gentile, castigated the powers-that-be of his time. Where would we be if we really listened to the message? Organized religion has conspired against mankind for 2,000 years, telling us to live in fear. Hellfire and brimstone awaits. God will punish. Is there any evidence this is so? Or do we punish ourselves? No one punished the kings of Europe for the Crusades, the Church for the Inquisition or anyone else. God hasn't sent divine retribution on any race or group who have not listened.

We get to choose.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by medjhiesco]

reply to post by medjhiesco

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I don't think it would matter if the Bible wasn't true, if it was lets say made up by the Romans as some sort of conspiracy. People would still believe what they believe in. People need to believe in something even if it nothing at all, find out the truth when we die.

Yes wouldn't it be terrible if people were to follow the word of the bible,and it's teachings,I for one wouldn't be effected trying to live life being kind to others and lending a helping hand,just think if the whole world did that scary huh?

You're totally right with how you ended....WE GET TO CHOOSE. Free will, right?
Ok, I'll voice my opinion on the thread's question. What if the Bible isn't true. What if none of it happened at all, and it IS some made up story. Then I would think that multitudes of people over the history of time believed in something that wasn't true.
Not sure if there would be anyone or anything left on the planet either...that means we could kill anyone we want, whenever we want. Basically, I think the world would have been chaos. Not sure you or I would have even been born to do what it is we do.
I could also say that the evolution theory is right.....our ancestors were little rods of bacteria floating around over 4.5 BILLION years ago....yea, we are the descendants of bacteria....that decided to form into some sort of fish, that lives in an ocean (not sure where that came from)...then decided we should grow some lungs and breathe air and live on the land.

I dunno, thats my opinion so far IF THE BIBLE WASN'T TRUE

We can't change what has happened, beach. Whether we came from bacteria or alien implantation or divine intervention, it doesn't change what we are now. We are more than our past, less than our future. We can't alter 2.000 years of history which is what seems to be the desire of most today. We can only learn from the past.

If God drowned out civilization a few thousand years ago, maybe he had a reason. There are enough parallel accounts of the deluge idea to say it might have happened. Are we on a course to see it happen again? For the first time in recorded history we might be given a choice or an option. We can't know what happened then, we can only listen to what is happening now.

Then I guess I dont understand the thread if you're saying we have parallel accounts of the flood. Are you a believer or a non believer

reply to post by medjhiesco

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So much for the idea of kinder and gentler. It seems our society has come to look for conflict. Would it have been more conducive to response if I had stated that the Bible as we know it today is a mish mash of popularized texts selected by churchmen desiring political power who spoon fed a maniac who claimed he had a vision from God to conquer Rome? That this same nutbag and his holy cronies ordered the destruction of the finest library of the time because it might contain information that contradicted their desire for world control?

That this same organization was responsible for the wars in the Holy Land (most of which were solely about political power in the infant European nations and ended up killing as many Christians as it did non-believers)?

That it spawned such warlike political horrors as the bishop who ordered the extermination of thousands in the Catharite suppression saying 'slay them all, God will know his own'.

That gave birth to the Inquisition that resulted in the deaths of thousands of witches and heretics for purely political purpose?

That resulted in the political persecutions that ended with the New World in America being populated by those who were so tired of the intrigue a whole country was formed with a concept of freedom of religion?

If the Bible were 'true', how did this stuff happen over the course of some 1,500 years? I can tell you. It is all about power and control. No one gives a fig about humanity or its development except for how it benefits them. It is what religion and politics is all about. Make the people believe they have no control, they have no say so that those who think they have the answers can get the money. Its why Western civilization exists. Those in power convincing people they are sheep, only fit to be lead.

Its all about encouraging people to see things as black and white. I'm right, you're wrong. Polarized people don't think, they react. If people are arguing about whether the translation is witch or poisoner, they aren't thinking about the message.

[edit on 13-3-2008 by medjhiesco]

The bible is a lot of things, but not something to be followed word for word or taken literally in every aspect. The bible contains many laws that are outdated in the modern world. It speaks of slavery for example, something not accepatble in todays day and time. The bilbe is also a collection of stories and parables. There are pieces of truth and fact in these. There was a census called by the Roman empire. There probably was a great flood as it was documented in more than just the west. The parables tell many stories and have good morals, but several were just stories. Jesus told many papables aka stories. They were used to send a message, but were not necesarily facts. I do not believe that everything in the bible should be strictly adhered to. For example, in biblical times white men were full citizens with full access to the law. Women on the other hand did not have such rights. They were property of their fathers or husbands. Again, I point out the outdated system. When reading such a historically important book one must keep in mind the time period.

If the Bible is false, then I am one heck of an idiot. Which is exactly why I have examined it to find out if it is true. Fortunately, I have concluded that it is.

reply to post by chromatico

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I am not condemning anyone's beliefs. I do not want them shoved down my throat but I say take what works for you and run with it. I was just staeing what I have found as I read the bible and study history.

reply to post by smalltownzoo

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Well, I'm just answering the question of "what if the bible is false?".

[edit on 13-3-2008 by chromatico]

Good opening post, medjhiesco. I've always wondered why people focus too much on the periphery, and not the central points when it comes to religion. With all religions, the central points have remained the same since the time of Zarathustra. That is, think good thoughts, do good deeds, and say good words". It's the add-ons, the edits and the expansion packs that foul up the main message.

And to everyone else, I suggest you read what was written in the OP instead of reacting to the thread title.

Of course, the Bible is not wrong.
But, if, for some reason, it could (will never happen) be proved that it WAS wrong, and everyone in the world suddenly stopped believing in it, then, God would just have to make a new one.
Do not wish something like this to befall you.
Would you really want to go through all that?
Creating a new bible may involve the destruction of half the world.
Any possible existing replacement for our current Bible are nothing but rip-offs of the original.

bible=truth
bible=false

All or nothing?????????

I hope not. There's plenty of violent, racist, sexist passages in the Bible that even the most stringent fundamentalist will not agree with. Just plain silly. I am not going to beat my slave, or have my village stone my wife.

[edit on 14-3-2008 by wrathchild]

reply to post by medjhiesco

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Seems to me that doing that is humanities favorite past time with EVERYTHING.........
We polarize and factionalize when we disagree on ANYTHING.
Even favorite TV shows.

It would be funny if it didn't constantly happen time and time and time and time again.

I mean just as an example, I cannot count the number of times I get told I am stupid/ignorant/don't believe in science just because I am a spiritualist.

Objectivity seems to IMMEDIATELY get thrown out the window anytime there is any kind of disagreement.

[edit on 14-3-2008 by WraothAscendant]

As a group Christians sicken me. They as a group are some of the most evil and selfrightious orginazations on the planet. They are no friend to God. They are blind, deff and dumb. As a group this is so.

However it's not about the group. It's about the idividual and this is the only redeaming quality within the christian religion.

Unfortunally, I'm fully aware just how "true" the bible is. Although their religion sickens me as it sickens many the bible is a very accurate historic mythological and factual account of humanity and our creator God.

Just because the majority are annoying doesn't make the text wrong. It makes the person wrong.

Can you get to "heaven" without the bible? Yes you can. However you are missing out on the epochs of epic stories upon stories that has lead mankind, and the souls of humaity and spiritual personalities through a quest for perfecting as to reflect perfection back unto our creator.

Personally, if it were up to me you'd have to read not only the bible but every "holy" book, lost scroll, and theoried historic accounts. Unfortunally for you it is not upto me. You have your free will to do with as you will, even upto the loss of self.

The bible will always be true, even if it is a piece of trash.

Jesus and God and the bible are unfalsifiable and untestable.

Trying to prove the bible "wrong" would make about as much sense as proving a science fiction novel written almost entirely in allegory, metaphor, and figurative symbolism wrong.

Someone is always the next anti-Christ (Nero, Fredrick II, the entire papacy, Bush, Osama, whoever, forever) whenever something occurs that can fit in with a few lines of scripture, people will believe it is prophesy and the endtimes are historically always now, or on the brink of coming, and Jesus is always just passed that, just out of reach.

People who pray to Jesus for something will sometimes get it because they still would have gotten it if they prayed to monkeys or mudballs because they actually did something to work for it, or it was a simple coincidence like seeing someone you know in the grocery store - but it becomes misattributed due to their false beliefs. They'll tell other people to pray with their stories of answered prayers, which propagates false hope and brainwashing.

They say there is an amount of history in the bible, and based on that it becomes even more true for some strange reason that God is real and that Jesus and however other many people walked on water.

The worst part is that there is a whole powerful city state papacy that believes in the prophesy and can help to fulfil it by choice interactions and relations with other world governments at times when they think it would be good for the "storyline."

Oh, and the best part is: You live a super happy afterlife.

It's a perfect control mechanism. They tell you to "believe" and you do it, unwavering, and without question. Christians are 100% certified brainwashed.

We all love Thomas Jefferson. What did he say about revalations?

"[I] consider it as merely the ravings of a maniac, no more worthy nor capable of explanation than the incoherences of our own nightly dreams."

Selfishness begins and ends with the self. Every dark emotion, every negative thought, whenever we wish anyone harm for any reason at all we poison the world a little more.

Do you want a world of reverential peace and light? It all must begin with you, with the self. With what you feel and do on a daily basis.

Trying to save your money for a new T.V.? Computer? Video Game? Tapping away on the keyboard as you stare into the internet from the sanctity of your own Cave of Shadows (Read the Allegory of the Cave)?

We all decide what world we live in. We all make our own lives what they are.

Turn the Other cheek. Love your enemy as your brother, no matter the harm given to you.

Do Good Deeds.

Think Good Thoughts. Begin to live the world you want, and watch as the world around you changes. Every soul waits for this to begin, what they don't realize is that it begins with each self... with you, and you, and you.

You know I got an endless amount of 'what ifs'. What if I just began starting topics on them all? If the bible isn't true, then someone has done a fine job over the past 4000 years or so stating things that would come to pass and did. So even if you don't believe in 'Jesus' believe in His fulfillments. Yahshua wasn't trying to organize a religion, he in fact foretold the destruction of the Temple and that happened, because it is no longer about worshpping God the Father here nor there, it's about worshiping Him in truth and spirit. Nobody is forcing you to adhere to any organized religion, it's there yes and it's your choice to go there, but when the fire comes upon the whole earth who can stand? Will the building be standing? Nope. Will man's false teaching stand? Nope. Will the gospel and testimony of the Living Word stand??? YES.

Fear mongering goes with just with just about anything these days, watch some news, read a paper, pick up some books.
(Timothy 1:7)
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

But there is a difference between fearing God and fearing man.

(Proverbs 9:10)
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: and the knowledge of the holy is understanding.

Psalm 118:6
The LORD is on my side; I will not fear: what can man do unto me?



You're asking for evidence of hellfire and brimstone? Are you living on an island somewhere in the middle of nowhere? This earth is rocking to and fro. Evidence is all around. The discernement needed in these latter day's is whether it is God or man. Read the book of Revelation. The last thing you want to do, believer or not is to test God. I shutter at that comment.
Please just read the book of Revelation and read it aloud, let His words echo into your ears.

There is punishment for wickedness, it may seem not so these days, but read about Babylon in Revelation, she is an ancient system who will undergo some severe punishment, she has filled up her cup with abominations and it will be poured out upon her double.

Sorry but I choose not to live my life worrying about fear. Not of Arab terrorists , monsters under my bed, dissidents who want to takeover the country and most certainly not of my father, be he human or otherwise. If someone has to scare me to make a point...good luck. Since only one person has ever come back from the other side with anything to say, I just have to figure it either isn't all that bad or worth the effort. Anyone who wants to believe otherwise is welcome to it. I'll just do the best I can now.

I am a father and I know how I feel about not only my children but kids in general. I don't care to listen to anyone who tells me a loving father would ever turn his back on his kids, for any reason. And especially not for eternity.