Evolution... a threat to the Bible?

I have been following some of the threads on evolution vs. creationism and the battles seem to get pretty vicious. I have not seen any of those who argue that evolution is correct actually say that God does not exist (although I may have missed it) in fact several have said that you cannot disprove the existence of God. I have always thought that evolution was a tool developed by God to allow species to develop. My question is why does evolution threaten creationists so much? Is it because of a belief that the Bible is completely with out error and does evolution cast doubts on or disprove that belief?

My take is: No, Evolution doesn't address the topic of God at all. It is compatible because of the whole "adaptation due to outside forces." thing. Otherwise, it just doesn't care.

I think the uproar that religious people have about it in good part is-as stated in the stokes monkey trial-"I didn't come from a damn monkey" (paraphrase.). It impacts the center of the universe feeling which most of humanity suffers from.

Im not a religious person nor an atheist. I prefer to think there is something after one dies, but that is all it is: a preference. I don't need proof since I am cognizant it is a choice. I just figure death will sort it out one way or another.

Also, keep in mind in this thread please: Faith is the absence of certainty, not the absence of doubt.

BUT did anyone ever think that maybe it has to do with both creation and evolution? you create something and then watch it evolve... just like life. we are born(created) and then we grow(evolve).

reply to post by Attari


There are camps that have put that forth. AshleyD mentioned them in a previous thread but I can't recall the names (never bothered to look too heavily into certain aspects of it.). Though in many ways it sounds like asking about is basically Deism. Deism has a few interpretations, the predominant one is basically: The creator sparked creation and didn't interfere again after that. Under that guise it could be said Humanity was accidental. Could be said to include allot of things.

From the wikipedia article on Deism:

Critical elements of deist thought included:
Rejection of all religions based on books that claim to contain the revealed word of God.
Rejection of reports of miracles, prophecies and religious "mysteries".
Rejection of the Genesis account of creation and the doctrine of original sin, along with all similar beliefs.
Rejection of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and other religious beliefs.

Constructive elements of deist thought included:
God exists and created the universe.
God wants human beings to behave morally.
Human beings have souls that survive death; that is, there is an afterlife.

Link: Wiki


Not sure if thats what you were really asking though

It seems that the major barrier to Christians in accepting evolution is the idea that the Bible is without error and should be taken literally. I can accept that the work was influenced by God but I cannot accept that it has not been manipulated and changed for political purposes.

If you don’t take the creation story from the Bible literally then evolution can work with creationism. 7 days could be 7 billion years in the perspective of an omnipotent universe creating God. As for creating Man in his own image that could mean a lot of things it could mean physically, mentally, or even spiritually meaning we have a soul. Also an image does not need to be an exact copy but can be a lesser form.

Agreed; though it does open some dangerous philosophical doors, namely: Cherry picking.

Fundamentalists do this already: "Gays are an abomination!" well.. the same book that talks about that also says that plowing the field with an ox and a bull is an "Abomination" or, sleeping within (I think it was) 40 feet of a woman during certain times of the month is also an "Abomination".

(please keep in mind, I do not believe in the bible, or any holy text. I am approaching this more from a logic perspective.).

At what point do you decide what to interpret as literal and what is parable? Did Jonah get swallowed by a whale? Or, is it an allegory to life getting to be too much? If the book of Job is literal, how could Satan have gone to God to place the bet without there being some sort of collusion?

Ultimately I can't think of anything outside of established church edicts that say Evolution and Creationism conflict.

Etc.

No, I do not think so and here is why. First of all, who are we to say how the Creator can create His creation? We're nobodies. Second, some of the terminology used in the original Hebrew is very interesting and raises a few questions as to how God actually brought things into existence.

For example, why did He not just 'poof' Adam and Eve into existence? Why was Adam taken from 'the ground' and Eve taken from Adam's rib. Cellular mitosis? Why do we see God stating 'let there be light' but then 'let the land bring forth animals.' Why would the land be brining forth animals? So, no. I don't think so at all.

In some respects, [micro] evolution has actually helped solve problems biblical scholars in the past could not figure out. For instance, how did we get all the races and ethnic groups from two people, Adam and Eve? Genetic mutation and adaptation programmed into us by a creator. How did Noah fit all 50 gajillion breeds of dogs, cats, etc., onto the ark? He didn't have to. The list goes on.

As for [macro] evolution. If we truly started out as a single cell organism (which I do not remotely believe due to lack of evidence) and evolved from there, that would still be within God's power and would at least solve the problem of abiogenesis for evolutionists. This is very doubtful to me but, again, who are we to put God in a box and tell Him how we did it?

Many Christians are not worried about it either way. However, many atheistic evolutionists certainly seem to use it as a weapon against the existence of a God, particularly, the Judeo-Christian God. In that respect it could be a 'threat' to the Bible. However, those who truly know and have a personal relationship with God aren't going to be moved one way or another.

The creationists don't recognise God's ability to create a world that can evolve and change and must change in order to survive. While the evolutionists can not see the scientific ramifications of so well ordered a system that exsists to make it scientifically impossible for it to be random happenstance. This fight is based on such narrow mindedness on both sides, it has nothing to do with proof any more but is based on stubborn determination to keep alive ideologies that the world around us has shown to be incomplete. Scientific discovery as shown proof of many things that are written in the Bible while the hearts of men have been changed to realise the hypocrisy of much of the teachings of the church.

This is all a process of bringing things into balance, just as individually we need to have balance in our lives; the world has to have balance. Few people having belief in God recognise what God is doing in the world and those that profess not to believe in God, are acting exactly the way that God wants them to act to bring about the changes that are necessary for the completion of his plan. The creationists have to evolve in their understanding and the evolutionists are going to create a new understanding. All these things which have exsisted since the beginning of time are being revealed now in their fullness. We are reaching a time of Appocolyptical preportions, all eyes are turned to heaven in anticipation of this great and momentus event and yet just as the magician has your attention on one hand his other hand is elsewhere preforming what is necessary to complete the act. So it is with a thief when you are distracted your possesions are stolen.

When I talk about God, I recognise that there is only one God that everyone recognises. In the Bible there is mentioned of other Gods and when you read these God's are not all powerful they are corrupt desires of men such as money, power and greed. God the Father, God the Creator has been given many names by humanity through out history but there is only one all knowing, all seeing spirit. The God of Adam, The God of Noah, The God of Abraham, The God of Moses, The God of Christ, The God of Mohammed .......... The Great Creator. It is man that creates delineation and chaos placing themselves as superior to anyone else, we introduce our own perspective and desires and then condemn anyone that does not agree. The world is a very vast place and what we see forms our perspective, a prairie farmer will tell you the earth is very flat while a mountaineer will tell you the earth is very mountainous. The earth is all these things and much more and our understanding is limited by our perspective. The only way to know the mountains is to go to the mountains and so it is in recognising who God is to each individual. You must stand and see their perspective and then it is possible to realise we are all talking about the same God. I have walked in many lands and lived and worshipped with many peoples, it is easy to recognise the hearts of the children of God and the people that are lead by their own corrupt desires. It is not in name that God is found but by the spirit and a true spirit has no need to condemn anyone, but our own desires does the condemnation. The Spirit of God is a light while our own desires are darkness. When you see the light it is from God no matter what the person that radiates that light uses as a name to understand the source.

reply to post by AshleyD


"due to lack of evidence"?? Are you kidding? There's a lot of evidence for it, and none for any other kind of argument. This is just from Wikipedia, and it says a lot. Sources are on the webpage here:

While details of macroevolution are continuously studied by the scientific community, the overall theory behind macroevolution (i.e. common descent) has been overwhelmingly consistent with empirical data. Predictions of empirical data from the theory of common descent have been so consistent that biologists often refer to it as the "fact of evolution". Nevertheless, macroevolution is sometimes disputed by religious groups. Generally speaking, these groups attempt to differentiate between microevolution and macroevolution, asserting various hypotheses which are considered to have no scientific basis by any mainstream scientific organization, including the American Association for the Advancement of Science.

So please enlighten us as to how all those scientists (who are approaching this with open minds and transparent methodologies, experiments, and results) are wrong, and you (who is approaching this with the zeal of someone who doesn't need evidence to believe what they do, only demanding evidence from the opposing camp, then ignoring it when it appears) are right? Please.

Two interesting videos that can respond to your questions :

Google Video Link

reply to post by dave420


Others and myself have already explained a lot of your questions on the other thread in its 50+ pages. It doesn't seem respectful to Attari to drag it all back over into his thread when all he asked was a question.

Originally posted by Attari
BUT did anyone ever think that maybe it has to do with both creation and evolution? you create something and then watch it evolve... just like life. we are born(created) and then we grow(evolve).

Now that's a statement I agree with....well said, actually SIMPLY well said. I must admit I'm not smart enough to have thought that myself.

I don't know where anybody gets the idea that anything at all is a threat to God's word. Evolution may be a block to someone believing in the Bible, but it is in no way a threat to the coming kingdom of God. "The gates of hell will not prevail against it." The kingdom of God will be like the biggest most impossible-to-stop meteorite that mankind has ever seen. You can't blow it up, it is a million times the size of earth! You can't stop it, you can't delay it, you can only hope to be a part of it. I won't speak crudely of evolution as I said I would, you can look at my thread if you want to know the truth about the theory and the people who believe in it. I will move on for there is nothing more to say here. Btw, mankind will never reach the stars either, because godlessness will not inherit the stars before the meek inherit the earth. That is to say, all of us soft-spoken, nice chaps, who wouldn't harm a fly will walk this earth after our deaths, and mankind will spend millions on space programs that will never really work out. Look at the way our solar system is designed, if any planet were habitable we would already be there. So you see, we are meant to never really truly get off this rock. We were meant to wait here for a New Heavens and a New Earth. That is mankind's only destiny. Like I said, be a part of it. I will not tell you which Christian denomination to join as I have been a part of several. You're the ones who have to have faith and pray as to where you should go. I can't help you with that except to say don't add anything the the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus - which you should believe in above anything else, even any Christian denomination's man-made rules. Take care. God bless.