American patriotism.

reply to post by LLoyd45


Yes, thousands. I know a few. Most of them have mental problems. I feel for them. They have been forced there by the people in power. I refuse to spend a week with them as I have planned to retire with them and have begun yelling at trash cans in preparation.

reply to post by jcavs88
Maybe one day you'll have the displeasure of finding yourself in such a situation. I'll bet you'll have a whole new outlook on the matter then. Raccon City might start looking pretty good to you after a while..


[edit on 3/10/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by earthman4

They've been forced there by people's continued apathy and attitude of "better you than me." Practice makes perfect, and if thing continue on as they are, we may all get a chance to live the "fabulous life" of the poor and nameless.

[edit on 3/10/08 by LLoyd45]

reply to post by jcavs88


It is the person, and their beliefs that determine what their circumstances are.

But anyway you're right. The topic is the U.S. patriotism and why it is so. Which led to the claim that the U.S. is the best country in the world based on the claim that everyone in the U.S. can make the "American Dream" if they work hard enough for it. It's not that simple though. And it shouldn't be called the "American Dream" imo, because it may not be the life that everyone desires.

I think you have it all wrong. Most Americans do not love the government or it's figure heads. Most American's truly love our country, and most will die to defend it. We love and respct our forefathers who were such courageous men of genuis that they defied all odds and faced certain death in order to allow us the freedoms that we have.

The problem is that we as Americans have allowed our government to be hijacked by corporate boot lickers and greedy scoundrels who use our tax dollars as an ATM to loot and wreak havoc across the rest of the globe. It is not the country or the hard working people who make it up, the problem lies with these wealthy, spoon fed liars and crooks who pay bribes to have themselves elected into positions of power and in turn ignore the will of the American people while catering to big business and the other exploiters.

I can only speak for myself when I say that I love America and would never want to live anywhere else in a million years, but we as a country need to take the blinders off, put the remote control down and take a good hard look at who we have running it. One day soon the big shots will be forced to stand tall before the people who elected them, and they will eventually get what is coming to them.

Originally posted by TheBandit795
But anyway you're right. The topic is the U.S. patriotism and why it is so. Which led to the claim that the U.S. is the best country in the world based on..

Your comment got me thinking. I often get a sense of resentment from those outside the United States when Americans say they believe their country is the greatest in the world. I think sometimes those outside the US think that somehow Americans believing such prevents foreigners from thinking their country is the greatest, as if there is a finite amount of such a belief. Nothing prevents someone from the UK, Germany, China, Zimbabwe, ad nauseum from thinking their country is the greatest in the world. In fact, I think that applied properly the world would be a much better place if on whole people began believing their home nation was the greatest country, especially for the Western World.

Originally posted by Frankidealist35
I can't fully understand how many Americans believe in their government so blindly... What's the big deal and why do they love their government so much?

I think you are embracing a false-dichotomy, one actually very common in these forums. Either people believe the exact same way you do, or they are brain-addled, mind-numbed, sheep who believe everything the government tells them.

This false-dichotomy does not exist. Yes, they will embrace politicians like an Obama or a Clinton, but that does not necessarily mean they believe everything that politician says. For some, it is a choice of the "lesser-evil." For others, they find someone they find they agree with on the issues. Or it may be a combination of the two. Still others see someone they may not necessarily agree with, but feel they can help move in the right direction.

The reason is going to be different for every person. But do not be so arrogant as to assume just because someone doesn't agree with you, they are lock-step, idiotic sheep who always agree with their government, no matter what. It speaks more to your intelligence than theirs' when you do.

Sorry for straying off topic guys, but I tend to link the two issues together. Patriotism is not about blindly following your leaders or having false pride in one's country. It's about questioning those things you believe to be unjust, and trying to change them within the scope of the law.

It's the supreme act of cowardice IMO to wrap yourself up in the flag, and then mindlessly obey orders and perpetuate lies that have been told to you without question as to their validity.

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. (1918)." -Theodore Roosevelt



[edit on 3/10/08 by LLoyd45]

Originally posted by Copernicus
Patriotism is great for easy control of people.

As is an irrational revulsion towards patriotism (if there is a word for it, it fails me at the moment), a hand-wringing if you will. You convince them their country is nothing special, convince them there nation or culture is worthless, it is easy for them to give up their soveriegnty. Makes it easier for them to give up their freedoms.

Originally posted by Copernicus
there they go, the sheep

The same goes for people who think they are smarter than everyone else. In fact, people like you may be the easiest to manipulate. Make up any story, any story that casts their society, their nation, politicians, what-have-you, in a negative light, and they are more likely to accept it, out-of-hand. It makes sense to them, it fits their world-view. And they will do it much faster than the supposed "sheep" will when you push their emotional buttons.

But you're too smart for that, right? Sure you are. This forum is full of people, just like you the smartest of the smart, those above "the sheep" who accept something, no matter how outlandish, no matter how unreliable the source, just on the basis something "makes sense" to them.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by SaviorComplex]

American patriotism is a good thing for usa
but there is a problem, when the goverment doesn't
earn our trust anymore.

we can not always follow blindly our goverment
and be proud of it, like it would be our parents.
we can critic and point a finguer, we have the right to do it.

otherwise, It would be stupid, don't you think..!
to be proud of our country if they're not honest with us
and if they doesn't act in a way that we can all be proud
to be americans.

We are not sheeple, aren't we...

reply to post by LLoyd45


Wow that is bad, wishing bad on other people, that just shows what kind of person you really are. WEAK

Always be kind to the people you meet on your way to the top, because you'll see them again on your way down..

[edit on 3/10/08 by LLoyd45]

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America...
Most of you know the rest.
I went into the military and swore an oath to preserve and to protect the Constitution, represented by the flag, not to the weasels in DC who are money and power grubbing liars.
Most people miss the subtlety, but patriotism is to be directed toward the Constitution, not the piece of crap dirtbags that steal our very nation out from under us(U.S.) and leave us to vote for charlatans(McCain), wild eyed 60's rejects(Clinton) or a charismatic empty suit(Obama).
Patriotism isn't for the gov't to enjoy, it's how we appreciate each other as Americans.
As far as the US being imperialistic, I don't remember taking over anybodies country, once we made sure they couldn't make war on us again.
The war in the Middle East right now imho is about oil. But not our oil. Most oil used in this nation comes from hemispheric sources.
We're keeping the Middle East teet open for Europe to suck on.
That's O.K., though. We took all your guns away 60 years ago.

reply to post by Frankidealist35


Most Americans do not believe in their government blindly. We see the bad as well as the good and we exert our pressure for changes for the betterment of our country through free elections and pressure of the populace upon our elected representatives. We do have the power of impeachment if things get too far out of hand. The far left and the far right are equally dangerous, that's why most Americans vote the middle of the road. It's not the most ideal system of government, but it beats anything else that I know of. I believe in my country not the government, I trust the government only so far, as most Americans do.
Democracy is a messy way of doing things, but I rather like it.

An impartial press without an agenda would be nice, though!

Hopup

> Subject: FW: FW: Pin droppers

> When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked
> by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an
> example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying,
> 'Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young
> men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our
> borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return
> is enough to bury those that did not return.'
> You could have heard a pin drop.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> Then there was a conference in France where a number of
> international engineers were taking part, including French and
> American. During a break one of the French engineers came back into
> the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done?
> He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami
> victims. What does he intended to do, bomb them?' A Boeing engineer
> stood up and replied quietly, 'Our carriers have three hospitals on
> board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear
> powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore
> facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,
> 000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand
> gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half
> a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to
> and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many
> does France have?'
> You could have heard a pin drop
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included
> Admirals from the U.S. , English, Canadian, Australian and French
> Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a
> large group of officers that included personnel from most of those
> countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped
> their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, 'whereas
> Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English.' He
> then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these
> conferences rather than speaking French?' Without hesitating, the
> American Admiral replied 'Maybe it's because the Brits, Canadians,
> Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German.'
> You could have heard a pin drop.
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> A group of Americans, retired teachers, recently went to France on a
> tour. Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris
> by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his
> passport in his carry on. 'You have been to France before,
> monsieur?' the customs officer asked sarcastically. Mr. Whiting
> admitted that he had been to France previously. 'Then you should
> know enough to have your passport ready.' The American said, 'The
> last time I was here, I didn't have to show it.' 'Impossible.
> Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France !'
> The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he
> quietly explained. 'Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-
> Day in 1944 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find any
> Frenchmen to show it to.'
> You could have heard a pin drop
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> What Is A Veteran? A Veteran -- whether active duty, discharged,
> retired, or reserve -- is someone who, at one point in his life,
> wrote a blank check made payable to 'The United States of America',
> for an amount up to and including his life. That is honor, and
> there are way too many people in this country today who no longer
> understand that fact.
>
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