Who can agree with me when I say that being Gay is wrong?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by jedimiller

 

excuse me...but why would a being create things then say it is wrong for them to be the way they are?

The human pilots the mind...

reply to post by jedimiller


does anyone really care what someone else does in their private life?

as a Muslim i dont think Gay/lesbian is a right thing
but then again its not my place to judge others on what they do.
its their life let it be

Originally posted by jedimiller
Being a believer in christianity, I know being gay is wrong. God created man and woman differently, sexually for that reason. To join in that reasonable way. This is not an attack on gays or anything like that. I work with them all the time, i'm surrounded! In acting classes and telemedia classes.

Being a rational thinking atheist, I know that being gay is not a choice and even if it was a choice it would be a perfectly legitimate one at that. The sexual preference and or orientation of others is none of my business.

Put down your prejudices and stop hiding behind the flawed ideology of Christianity.

Originally posted by jedimiller
Being a believer in christianity, I know being gay is wrong.
(...)
what are your thoughts?

I am not a Christian; however, I am a life-long die-hard devotee of Christ and what he stands for, taught, and exampled.

My thoughts are such:

And most of all be warm in your love for one another; because in love there is forgiveness for sins without number:
1 Peter 4:8

So every one of us will have to give an account of himself to God. Then let us not be judges of one another any longer: but keep this in mind, that no man is to make it hard for his brother, or give him cause for doubting. I am conscious of this, and am certain in the Lord Jesus, that nothing is unclean in itself; but for the man in whose opinion it is unclean, for him it is unclean.
Romans 14:12-14

This speaks LOUDLY:
DO NOT CAUSE your brother (any/all brothers) to STUMBLE from your own judgments - your brother FOR WHOM CHRIST DIED.

It doesn't matter what ANY of us think in regard to whether homosexuality (or anything else, for that matter) is a sin or not.

Mainly because CHRIST DIED so that such things would not plague our souls. He didn't come to save the holy and the righteous - he came to save the lost, the outcast, and the sinners.

Secondly because it is NONE of OUR BUSINESS. I am not the judge of another on any issue whatsoever. The bible makes that clear and so I comply.

GOD LOVES US ALL
CHRIST LOVES US ALL
†♥†
WITHOUT PREFERENCE
WITHOUT RESERVATION
----------

Those are just my thoughts, since you asked. Thanks for sharing yours, as well.

PEACE
GOD BLESS YOU

reply to post by jedimiller


according to what i read in the jewish tanakh in leviticus 20, homosexuality is listed among many other sins that Yahvah says He detests.

its not hard for me to judge that since G-D says its wrong----well then it must be.

Messiah says in the new testament luke6 dont judge and you wont be judged but He also says in john7 to judge righteously

right now most of G-D's laws are not being enforced so people do as they please but for myself just as i do not want to get lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke neither do i wish to inadvertantly accidentally somehow contact a sexual disease that could possibly be present.

so i avoid people that smoke and i avoid people that i know practice risky sex--------not because i hate them but because i'm trying to look after whats left of my health and that of my family because i love them and dont want to see them get sick.

reply to post by whatukno

...sexuality is not evil or sinful in my opinion.

In previous posts I went to some length to make the point that sexual attraction (outside marriage between a man and a woman) can lead to immoral thoughts or behaviour but equates to temptation, not sin. The difference is HUGE.

(From my first post

Noone is any better than anyone else. Therefore looking down on anyone for their sexual conduct comes from hypocritical self-righteousness.

This doesn't mean it is not seriously wrong in God's eyes - just that he alone can show us the way. Jesus said "I came that they might have life, and have it more abundantly". His way is to deny yourself sexual immorality: anything beyond a male-female marital relationship and life-long faithfulness. Previous behaviour can be completely forgiven, at the cost of Christ's life.

The issue at stake, as far as Christian teaching is concerned, is that noone has the moral fibre to live up to God's standard of moral perfection. Sexual purity - complete faithfulness between an man and a woman in thought and deed is undeniably the teaching of the Bible in both the Old and New Testaments.

Mikey84 asked:

If Homosexuality is so wrong in the eyes of god, why was it not mentioned in your 10 commandments?

The answer is, it was: "You shall not commit adultery". Each commandment encompasses an area of life, and this one encompasses every area of sexual purity in cutting simplicity. It could be rephrased: 'Unless you have a spouse, resist sexual temptation in thought and deed. Thereafter remain faithful.' Sexual impurity before marriage is also included as it would mean prior unfaithfulness.

The reason we know the commandments are so broad, such that nobody (other than Christ) ever lived up to them, is a) they knew this in Old Testament times - e.g. "I have seen a limit to all perfection; Your commandment is exceedingly broad" (Psalm 119:96) and b) Christ taught that the commandment not to murder included not allowing hatred of another person into your heart.

whatukno: You also made the following statement:

God being love, does not love based on sexuality but loves unconditionally.

Jesus himself offered God's forgiveness conditionally. It was always on condition of accepting Him as God's sacrifice for human sin and on a conscious decision to live from that point on for God's glory, not your own satisfaction. Turning from living your way to God's way means living according to the ten commandments and all Christ's teaching:

"If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me." (Matthew 16:24). "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them... teaching them to observe everything I have commanded you."

If you claim that God will accept a person without reference to their need to believe the Gospel and turn from a sinful life, you are teaching the opposite of what Jesus taught. His teaching could not be plainer: "...preach the Gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned". (Mark 16:15&16)

Fortunately for us sinners, however, God's love is unconditional in one sense: He offers complete forgiveness, acceptance and cleansing and removal of a person's past, no matter who they are or what they have done. This is the reality of the Gospel that has brought new life to countless millions of people throughout the ages. Here it is in a nutshell:

"Do not be deceived: no sexually immoral people, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, thieves, greedy people, drunkards, revilers, or swindlers will inherit God's kingdom. SOME OF YOU WERE LIKE THIS, but you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ..." (1 Cor 6:9-11)

God's love changes people.

Originally posted by queenannie38

GOD LOVES US ALL
CHRIST LOVES US ALL
†♥†
WITHOUT PREFERENCE
WITHOUT RESERVATION

oh awesome, i was just about to go on a killing rampage and i had a dash of conscience, it´s a relieve to know it doesnt matter what i do

Originally posted by yahn goodey

right now most of G-D's laws are not being enforced so people do as they please but for myself just as i do not want to get lung cancer from 2nd hand smoke neither do i wish to inadvertantly accidentally somehow contact a sexual disease that could possibly be present.

so i avoid people that smoke and i avoid people that i know practice risky sex--------not because i hate them but because i'm trying to look after whats left of my health and that of my family because i love them and dont want to see them get sick.

LOL, have you ever found out how you actually get a sexually transmitted disease? It’s not like 2nd hand smoke, it’s not like a cold, and you’re not going to catch it by standing next to someone.

But if that is your concern, then I’d stay away from straight people if I was you, you know that the majority of people with HIV/AIDS are straight. Better make sure you’re not near someone when they sneeze.

As for avoiding people who practice risky sex? How exactly do you know what people do in their bedrooms?

Originally posted by pause4thought

Mikey84 asked:

If Homosexuality is so wrong in the eyes of god, why was it not mentioned in your 10 commandments?

The answer is, it was: "You shall not commit adultery". Each commandment encompasses an area of life, and this one encompasses every area of sexual purity in cutting simplicity. It could be rephrased: 'Unless you have a spouse, resist sexual temptation in thought and deed. Thereafter remain faithful.' Sexual impurity before marriage is also included as it would mean prior unfaithfulness.

You cannot interpret it to suit your own agenda; also, if 2 Homosexuals or 2 lesbians are in a loving relationship and are faithful to each other then they are not committing the commandment of “You shall not commit adultery”.

So again I will ask, if being Homosexual is so wrong, then why is it not one of the 10 commandments or one of the deadly sins (it's not even in the new deadly sins that the pope released this year).



Mikey

reply to post by Mikey84

if 2 Homosexuals or 2 lesbians are in a loving relationship and are faithful to each other then they are not committing the commandment of “You shall not commit adultery”.

I understand why you did not accept my explanation - as you said, it appears to you that I'm interpreting the commandments to fit an agenda. I assure you, however, that my only agenda is present the teaching of Scripture as it stands.

The 10 commandments were given as an easy-to-remember set of laws. They do not constitute the entire law of God; much of the detail was laid out in subsequent chapters of the text. The 10 commandments are, if you like, the headlines.

Contrary to popular belief they were never designed to enable people to think they could keep them and so consider themselves better than others. Their purpose was a) to expose us to God's light, His moral character, such that we become aware that we are not perfect as He alone is perfect, and b) to reveal to us our need of forgiveness and cleansing. "...the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith" (Galatians 3:24).

The idea that being in a loving relationship and being faithful to each other means that homosexuals or lesbians are not breaking the seventh commandment appears correct on a superficial reading of the law, but just as the laws of any country come with explanatory detail, so God's laws come with the same. It is not obscure 'small print', but necessary detail that expands on the headline principle. It has the same force as the headline itself.

If you care to read the laws in full, you will see, for example: "If a man sleeps with a man as with a woman, they have both committed an abomination..." (Leviticus 20:13). Yet this form of immorality is one of many, such as adultery per se, which is regarded as just as serious. Again, we all stand guilty before our Maker, as all of us have broken His Law, if only in thought.

Granted, mutual love and faithfulness are high principles, but if used to justify immorality they are being expressed in a way that is nothing short of rebellion against God himself. His teachings are not abstract or philosophical - they shine a light on our behaviour.

As I pointed out previously, the fact that something comes naturally does not mean that it does not break God's Law. Otherwise all manner of sexually immorality would be fine: sex before marriage, adultery, homosexuality, etc., all come naturally, to different people. That's one reason why many people hate the Bible - it says behaving according to your natural desires and lusts leaves you guilty of gross sin before God.

As a heterosexual man I have had to deny my natural inclinations tooth and nail over nearly three decades, including throughout my teens. It would have been impossible if I had not realised that the Son of God underwent spitting, whipping, mockery and crucifixion to purchase my acquittal. Thus the path is difficult whether you are homosexual or heterosexual in terms of attraction. Sometimes excruciatingly so, especially where feelings are clearly mutual. But when Christ separates the sheep from the goats on the last day it will all be worthwhile. Meantime, nothing compares to the peace of a good conscience, where shortcomings have been forgiven, and sexual immorality is avoided.

Everyone enjoys what is sinful until they have been given a new heart. That is why Jesus said: "I assure you, unless someone is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." (John 3:3). In the same way a heterosexual person is born again through believing the Gospel and no longer finds sin satisfying, a person of homosexual orientation loses their taste for practising any form of ungodliness. Excruciating battles do ensue, but the satisfaction that comes from living God's way outweighs the cost immeasurably. Not least on your death bed.

[edit on 1/4/08 by pause4thought]

reply to post by pause4thought


Once again, hiding personal homophobia behind the veil of religion.

And if you're gullible enough to actually believe that God would create a homosexual person for the sole purpose of sending him to hell for something out of their control, then wait until you find out that God is sending anyone with strait hair, or green eyes to burn in the fiery pits of the damned!!!!

Originally posted by babloyi
reply to post by Acidtastic

 

If (according to you), there is nothing wrong with being gay, then what is wrong with 'choosing to be gay'? Why are you trying to justify yourself?

[edit on 9-3-2008 by babloyi]

Why are you trying to justify your position? Three fingers point back to you from whence you point. This goes for everyone with four digits and a pusable thumb, that is.

See video: www.youtube.com...

:bnghd:

"Gay" is a genetic anomaly nothing more, you could probably define it as a genetic defect, but that would offend a lot of people. But at it's core, that's what it is.
90% of the population is not gay.

Thats an anomaly and anomaly in genetics is a defect.


Now before anyone goes crazy on me....

Defect does not mean bad or inferior, it means it is not the norm.


GOD may have created man (I dispute that) but he would also be responsible for a "creating" defects, anomolies and other imprefections of the basic human design (note normal humans aren't perfect either)

OP: A religion may mean something to you, but it doesn't mean squat to an Atheist and I am willing to bet it doesn't mean much to someone who is gay and has been shunned from the religion.

Personally I am not offended by the OP's comment only because he is coming from a religious viewpoint and not personally attacking the person, but still...

this is a crappy thread.



Bottom line, being gay is as natural as not being gay as there is nothing (obviously) perfect in nature... even anomalies are natural. God created everything so basically you're saying you don't like what God has done...

You're disgreeing with GOD.

I know where you'll be this sunday.

reply to post by Rasobasi420


Hi. We currently have different points of view, but it would be good to try and understand each other. Your response to my post comes from a preconception that I must be homophobic. If you read all my posts on this thread it should become clear that just isn't true.

Once again, hiding personal homophobia behind the veil of religion.

I don't deny this happens with some people. Homophobia, a fear of people with h. orientation, is based on ignorance, prejudice and small-minded 'we are better than you'-type attitudes. As a Christian (someone who believes they have done wrong and needs God's forgiveness) I know for a fact that I am no better than the next person. I accept people for what they are.

When I meet someone I don't ask: "Are you attracted to men or women?" Not an issue. Neither do I ask: "Have you ever slept with another person's spouse?" Not my business. Nevertheless, the difference is: the first issue relates to someone's tastes, the second to their behaviour. It is this difference that I, as a Christian, believe is HUGE.

The Christian faith is based on the belief that God has spoken directly through people such as Moses in a way he isn't going to speak to you or Me. We believe the ultimate example is where he actually came in person, Jesus Christ, and spoke to mankind, whom he had designed and made. As the Maker, we believe he has the right to define what constitutes morally right and wrong behaviour.

What we read is that no-one, heterosexual or homosexual, has kept God's Law. When the Gospel challenges people to receive forgiveness through faith in Christ, and to follow Christ by turning away from behaviour that breaks God's Law, it means heterosexuals learning to deny themselves gratification of their natural desires in the same way as homosexuals. Hard for both, but ultimately living God's way, which is an act of worship, brings the Christian disciple far deeper satisfaction.

This is what I have been saying throughout. Nothing against the person. Just explaining the pattern laid out for Christians, some of whom have experienced homosexual attraction, but all of whom have accepted that it is more important to live God's way than to gratify sexual desire in a way that breaks his Law. Heterosexual Christians have accepted the same difficult path.

And if you're gullible enough to actually believe that God would create a homosexual person for the sole purpose of sending him to hell for something out of their control,...

Your anger here came from a misconception. Again, if you read carefully what I have posted you should see that what you say above is an unfounded caricature. I wouldn't dream of saying that. It is precisely that kind of confusion that I am seeking to dispel...

When Christ said his message was "Turn from your sins and believe the Gospel, because God's kingdom is near", it was an invitation to a way of life that leads to Heaven. Self-righteous people who didn't think they needed God's forgiveness were the only people he barred. He told them: "Prostitutes are entering the kingdom of God before you!" (Matthew 21:31) One of the main objections of his enemies was that Christ's band of followers was full of sinners and he was their companion. The real church always has been a motley crew of sinners.

We inherited a corrupt human nature, which gives us a taste for sin. Until Christ destroys our bondage to that taste we can't break free, and frankly don't even want to. That is the path to hell.

Christ's disciples learn to behave according to His teaching, resisting their inner cravings. The marvel of being born again is that you develop an inner craving to be like Christ and lose the taste for sin. We still make mistakes, but we're now on the path to Heaven.

Rasobasi420 Our Maker loves us sinners, literally to death, whatever our orientation.