Who can agree with me when I say that being Gay is wrong?

reply to post by hikix


sign me up although some would argue that animals don't actually have the capacity to think in this manner but, if that were the case, then, well, I guess the animals were born that way.


reply to post by Bigwhammy


if god created man, he is, therefore, responsible for everything we do. If god creates something and we manipulate his creation, then his creation is manipulating another one of his creations, thereby creating another creation.

all his.

oh, and for the record, being gay is not evil, which you seem to be implying. it is different. different from what you think or believe. there's a big difference between being unlike you and being evil.

for example, I don't like asparagus. that doesn't mean that someone who likes asparagus is evil. ok, maybe they are. bad example but you get the point.

reply to post by Crakeur


You're from NY too, I think being from the most diverse area in the world, we seem to have a more accepting approach to other peoples lifestyles.

reply to post by Crakeur


Well I think God let us do what we want... we are responsible for sin

I said sin and evil ... see my post above my answer to you. We can judge the sin without judging the sinner.

It is a sin.

reply to post by hikix


Animals often tear each other to pieces and sometimes eat their own young! They have no knowledge of right and wrong. Their way of life therefore has no bearing on human behaviour or morality.

I suspect you realise this, but are being facetious. Not really appropriate when this issue often causes people difficulties with mental health.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


one man's sin....

perhaps hikix is right, being from a more diverse city allows me to be more accepting of things. perhaps it just means I'm slightly more evolved.

Originally posted by jedimiller
How do you know that God created Gays? aren't you just assuming that? I never said he did that, but I really doubt that God would go that way.

...so there's something in nature that god didn't create?

wow, i'm shocked.

honestly, homosexuality is observed in nature, it's something that happens often.
it's natural and nobody is getting hurt.

Originally posted by pause4thought
reply to post by hikix

 

Animals often tear each other to pieces and sometimes eat their own young! They have no knowledge of right and wrong. Their way of life therefore has no bearing on human behaviour or morality.

Seriously, humans have done MUCH worse to eachother.... and other species for that matter.

My point basically, and by joking around i guess I wasn't able to get to it, is that there are other things that we should concern ourselves with. There are billions of people starving to death, being killed for no reason, tortured, you name it. We are destroying our environment and killing off animals that have been here much longer then we have. A man having sex with another man shouldn't be that big of a deal compared to what some other people are currently doing.

God gave us free will. He gave us the capacity to love. How we express that love is part of the expression of that free will and capacity to love.

I truely am sorry that the ways certain people express their love is repugnant to you, really I am. I am also sorry to tell you that that is your problem, not the gay populations, and most especially not Gods problem.

Free will and the capacity to love in all its myriad forms. Nothing at all wrong with that.

In case I hadn't made it clear prior to this? I most emphatically don't agree with you.

[edit on 9-3-2008 by seagull]

reply to post by Crakeur


Hi again. I was responding to your first post about animal behaviour, but your second post appeared before I got the reply in.

So, in reply to your later comments. Arguing whether homosexuality is evil or not simply inflames the issue. To have a meaningful debate, mutual understanding is more condusive to getting somewhere and not wasting precious time, is it not?

I maintain that homosexual orientation leaves people in the same boat as everyone else: they are faced with moral decisions. In the case of people of heterosexual orientation they are faced with decisions about whether to accept and follow the Christian teaching that sexual intimacy outside Christian marriage is classed as immorality or whether to live differently. Likewise those of homosexual orientation are faced with a corresponding moral decision, although they would presumably be more inclined to see it as a choice between celibacy and what is defined as immorality according to Christian teaching.

The reality of people's experience is that: denying one's natural inclination to have sex according to desire rather than in obedience to a conscience informed by Christian teaching is seemingly beyond their own strength. As even the apostle Paul said, he had the desire to do good, but found that within him there was another principle at work, often leaving him too weak to obey his own conscience. The Christian answer is that we can't actually do what we want even if we know it is right unless we receive supernatural strength to do so.

Interestingly this is something people often miss when trying to understand Christianity. They wonder why Jesus performed miracles, but we don't see them today. Yet they do happen constantly, all over the world - in the realm of the heart. Ordinary people like me who have the same nature as everyone else find that through prayer and worship we receive strength beyond our own capacity to live God's way. This extraordinary experience has been shared by countless people of homosexual orientation who have come to believe in Christ.

But how can you expect someone of one orientation to change, you may ask. The same way I and all who truly follow Christ change: by learning to win the battle in the heart in order to live God's way, not mine. And boy, does it set you free when you are no longer controlled by your desires!

Thus, the Christian perspective on sexual morality is not bound by "this is natural or that is natural"-type discussions. Heterosexual people obviously have natural desires to have sex before marriage, but the Christian teaching is: wait. The fact that the desire seems natural does not mean we can somehow blame God for it (as he made us), as has already been suggested. It is there because we have inherited a nature that rebells against our Maker's ways. When we gratify those natural desires in disobedience to God's laws we ourselves are to blame, not God.

Instead of leaving us in our slavery to our desires God sent someone who did not inherit them, firstly to live the life we should have; secondly to pay the price for our mistakes, and thirdly to set us free from the slavery.

Thus, Crakeur, if you label homosexual practice evil, you need to label fornication and adultery evil too. Which doesn't leave many people's practice out, especially when, from a Christian perspective, even secretly lusting after someone leaves a person guilty of the same. As I said in my first post, we're all in the same boat. We all need to be set free. Many don't want to be. But those who have been find it brings so much peace, joy, and inner fulfilment that they have to find new ways to express it. That's what hymns and prayer are all about... Been a disciple of Christ about 28 years, and it truly is an amazing, fulfilling experience!

we're living in 2000 WHAT? and people still aren't accepting one another

god threads like this make me so sick

christians? jeese, you guys are some scary folk

yea thats right, i'm honestly scared of some of you christians out there

extremists, christian extremists.. very scary

reply to post by Roland Deschain


It's not just christian teachings. Though I'll go along with the extremeist parts of it. Just not as far as you're apparently going. This, fear I suppose, is rooted in the fear we all have to a lesser or greater degree, of that which is different. The "other", the one who worships differently, dresses differently, and yes loves differently. Quite simply, it's fear that drives this, perpetuates the hatred, and the loathing. Root out that fear, and lo, the angels of our better natures take over.

i know but sometimes hearing or reading the way peopel think is just shocking...

surreal at times...like people actually think like that...

i think it's wrong as hell...


Mod Note: One Line Post – Please Review This Link.


[edit on 9-3-2008 by elevatedone]

Originally posted by LordInfamous
i think it's wrong as hell...

To what are you refering? The opening post? Or, gays actually daring to exist?

Kinda curious.

reply to post by seagull


If you read my first post, the first point I made was that fear and hatred of people with homosexual orientation sickens me. I also explained how I have the same respect for them as anyone else. And that also goes for anyone who disagrees with my perspective. I understand full well the Christian position goes against the grain today. The reason I stick my head above the parapet is not to gain approval. It is because I have met people who are part of this community who have told me about how too often their plight leaves them contemplating suicide.

Some people believe saying there is nothing amiss with homosexual practice helps. There are, however, many people who have found the freedom offered by Christ far more powerful than this. I only wish to share this knowledge.

reply to post by LordInfamous


Its not really about whether its wrong or right, its about being compelled behaviorally to act in such a way. As far as I know men can't have children. What I'm saying is to feel such a way is a function of the flesh and the flesh is in opposition to developing a higher understanding of things. Our flesh

So long as the provisions of our fleshy desires take precedence over cultivation of the higher faculties of mind we will never collectively reach that good which transcends.


*Heaven forbid someone should complain of plagiarism*

[edit on 9-3-2008 by Inverted_VaV]

Originally posted by seagull

Originally posted by LordInfamous
i think it's wrong as hell...

To what are you refering? The opening post? Or, gays actually daring to exist?

Kinda curious.

the act of homosexuality.

reply to post by jedimiller


This is a very difficult subject for me to talk about being that my brother and about 10 very close friends are either gay or lesbian. However, according to the Jewish Tanakh and the Christian Bible, homosexuality is a sin. There is no getting around that.

But there are other 'sexual sins' as well: Adultery, premarital sex, and lust. Heterosexuals have our pitfalls as well and are no better than homosexuals in our struggle against sin. This leads me to the next point...

reply to post by SkepticOverlord


Yes, it is 100% wrong to judge other people- especially when we are tempted just the same with sins as mentioned above. However, we are also told to judge 'all things.' Homosexuality, adultery, lust, and premarital sex all fall under 'things' while homosexuals, adulterers, and those who commit lust or premarital sex fall under 'people.'

We are told we have all sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God and that those without sin can cast the first stone. But, newsflash: we've all got sin. If I see a handsome man and have an affair then it's no different than my brother who engages in homosexual sex with his boyfriend. Or any other sin. We can let them know what the Bible says about it but it would be wrong to treat them like sub humans who are less in the eyes of God than us.

Jesus died for both the heterosexual and the homosexual. We all have our 'snags' and 'pitfals.' For one person it might be homosexuality and for another it might be adultery. For another it might be lying. For another it might be their love of drugs or alcohol. I get so sick of people who act like homosexuality is the only sin and for some reason God can work with everyone else but homosexuals. This is so untrue. We all have an albatross. Thank God that Jesus said to give them to Him and we will carry them for us.

And that's all I'm going to say.

OK, since Crakeur opened this line, here's what I find evil:

o Brussel sprouts;
o Drivers who think they own the road;
o Spiders - National Geo:The Dark Side of Spiders. There a light side?);
o People-eating sharks;
o People-eating people, unless there's a plane crash in the Andes;
o Industrial polluters;
o The IRS;
o Lyndon Baines Johnson;
o Dictators;
o Cockroaches;
o Killer Shrews;


Nope. Same-sex doesn't make the short list.

Besides - Whose business is it but theirs? I mean, really.

reply to post by Roland Deschain


Hi. People still follow Christ, in their hundreds of millions. In the twenty-first century. We're ordinary people who follow his teaching. Nothing to do with politics or politicians who claim to be Christian but act otherwise. Nothing to do with putting people down, in any sense of the word. Nothing frightening at all. Just a different perspective, and one that is based on accepting and welcoming others as they are, and living a life of integrity at the level of the heart and in times and places when noone is looking. No violence, no drunkenness, no lying, no immorality. Does difference frighten you? It doesn't frighten us. It's just healthy to communicate, surely.