Sally Kern, "Gay's are Infiltrating our City Council."

Originally posted by cavscout
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

Seems you chose to skip over my last post directed at you. Willful ignorance for you it is, then.

Ok, near as I can make out, you are telling me that in your brand of Christianity, you only really have to pay attention to part of the Bible. You know, that seems to be only true for the born-again flavour of Christians. So really, anybody can say they, alone, have the true word of God, and everybody else is going to hell with the queers and Jews and stuff. Unless, of course their God likes queers and Jews and stuff, and it's those born-agains headed for the fiery pits.

I suggest that you deal with your sins and leave other folks alone. Yours is supposed to be the god of love, but I'm really hard pressed to find a more hateful folk than Christians with a head of steam goin' on. How is that, anyway?

Originally posted by cavscout

Originally posted by Myrdyn

Good to hear some commonsense.

Funny you mention common sense. Great book, you should read it and the other works of American ancestors, then some modern dystopia, and maybe you wouldn’t be so keen on persecuting this woman because of her religious beliefs or for speaking her viewpoint regardless of religion.

It makes me sick to think that you would jail a person for their thoughts.

Perhaps you would have her deleted as an unperson for her thoughtcrime?


[edit on 9-3-2008 by cavscout]

This woman is an elected representative and quite frankly what she says doesn’t sound so ‘modern’ to me. Are you saying she talks this way because of her religious beliefs? Are you suggesting one comment is persecution? She can ‘think’ whatever she wants. No idea what an unperson is.. and you have a gun?!! Jeeez

Originally posted by SlightlyAbovePar
reply to post by forestlady

 

Stop, slow down and breathe. You've attributed something’s to my comments I didn't say.

My thesis is thus: she didn't say anything "fascist". Articulating an opinion - even an unpopular one - is not facist. Saying she should be silenced because you don't agree with her opinion is.

She isn't disenfranchising anyone with her comments. You're (IMO) claiming a whole lot more weight to one woman's opinion as a way to legitimize your (IMO) fascist call for her silence, while at the same time calling her a fascist for simply articulating her opinion.

She, they, them are entitled to their opinion and the electorate is entitled to representation that reflects their, locally held views. Even if we don’t agree with them.
That's all.

[edit on 9-3-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

Well, I don't know why you're telling me to stop, slow down and breath. I'm not upset and never said anything that implied such. Nor do I think she should be silenced simply because she disagrees with me. You have missed my point.
And she is disenfranchising an entire group of people by saying that they are "infiltrating"; it implies she doesn't want ANY gay person on the City Council. Would you feel the same way if she was calling to not have any Blacks, HIspanics or women on theCity Council?

As far as representing the will of the people: we've been through this before, as a nation. It was called Civil Rights, back in the '60's. The South was forced to integrate, in spite of the fact that most in the South didn't want to. But if it hadn't been integrated, we'd still be thinking of Blacks and other minorities as second class citizens.
I'm applying the same thinking here and that is, that bigotry has no place in a govt rep. And that is my point. These kind of people spread lies and hate and are always scapegoating someone and attempting to undermine any effort at equality. When this woman called for not having any gay person on the City Council, that is decidedly an un-American stance and it is also fascist and discriminatory.
Furthermore, teachers are not allowed to express their opinion to students, even outside of class. Many teachers have lost their jobs over that. Why should represntatives of our govt be held to a different standard, when they are supposed to be making laws for the citizens, all of the citizens?

I am about as far from fascism as a person can get. I've taken alot of heat on these boards for my liberal stances. If you knew anything about me at all, you wouldn't be calling me a fascist. I'd appreciate if you'd stop calling me names that don't apply to me.



[edit on 9/3/08 by forestlady]

reply to post by mybigunit


No that's an important point.

As much as I dislike what this woman said, she does have the right to say it.

And the rest of us have the right to speak out & condemn her for it too.

Ah, another homossssexuality thread...

wonderful.

Normally I'd just read and be entertained, but I have a little theory on this subject. I believe that people hide behind religion when it comes to voicing their opinions against homosexuality. Why do I believe this? Let's all find out together.

Reproduction is at the VERY bottom of our evolution. It is the first and most important thing that makes the very essence of a life form. Without it, life would cease to exist.
Life
In fact, it is so key that it pertains to organics that are not even considered alive, like viruses.

Human reproduction is sexual, as is much of the reproduction that occurs in earth based life. However...

Homosexuality evolved in tandem with vertebrate societies, in which a motley group of individuals has to either live together or die alone.

Seed: The Gay Animal Kingdon

So, homosexuality may be programmed in all of our DNA, even if it may lie completely dormant in 70% of us, and completely dominate 10%.

All well and good, but what about the 70%?

Here's where my brain has filled in a gap. To those whom experience zero homosexual tendancies the very thought of such completely contradicts their most basic genetic program of reproduction. Even the thought of homosexuality is a gross violation of their most basic instinct and of all instincts and congnitive thought derived from that most basic instinct. And since we are a violent species (just look around), anything that violates our prime reason for existence is going to cause fear, anger, and hate, which as we all know, leads to suffering.

Now most people have grown up with at least a small iota of religion, and religion becomes the easiest way to rationalize their attavistic abhorance. I'd go as far as to say that the concept of homosexuality could take an otherwise nonreligious person and transform them in a process that's so layered in the psyche that the new religious person that emerges has no idea why it happened.

To overcome this negative reaction to homosexuality it takes an open mind and a willingness to be more than a primative, aggressive product of evolution. We are a nasty, vile species that is prone to hatred, conflict, war, and murder, so it takes a proactive effort to overcome our natural tendancy toward aggressive, negative emotions.

I remember in my early teens I did indeed have assiduously visceral reactions to the idea of homosexuality. I had to take positive steps to overcome this as well as distancing myself from negative reinforcement.

So in conclusion, all you need is love.

Yuck, I have to get this serious taste out of my mouth. I'm going to go find a thread where I can post something in gross violation of terms of service and hopefully make a few people chuckle before I get warned.

Peace

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I think you're targeting the wrong guy here.

There is more than one flavor of fundamentalist Christian, not all of them believe in using the state to force their beliefs in others.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - blaming all Christians for the extremists is like blaming all Muslims for terrorism.

As long as someone doesn't try to force their beliefs on me, they can believe whatever they want.

I don't want to disenfranchise gays during their endless victimization but is opposition to their radical point of view not allowed? Some on the far left of the gay movement want to teach 1st graders about homosexuality.... Is that ok too? When is enough enough? Give me a break here... If she gets booted for her opinion then so be it but the same kind of self righteous indignation should be given to points of view that are just as outrageous coming from the radical gay left don't you think? I for one hope she gets to say...

Hahahahahhhahahahahaha.

Gays infilitrating the council....hah....ahahahahaha......


Come on now people.

This world is filled with homosexuals like greek mythology.

Check it, don't pass judgment cos you have a homophobe problem. Let the queers be. Sorry, I'm not a homophobe. IF they want to be gay, let them be gay.

Seriouslly, we can't stop them.

Just because someone is homosexual doesn't mean that they're bad.

What about all the lesbian dyke cops on the police force?

Come on, what about GAYS IN THE MILITARY?

Gays are everywhere, it's personal choice.


Just accept it.

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
Ok, near as I can make out, you are telling me that in your brand of Christianity, you only really have to pay attention to part of the Bible. You know, that seems to be only true for the born-again flavour of Christians.

Actually no, it is all major denominations of Christianity. To include the absolute largest and most clearly not "fundamentalist," the Catholics.

Go ask a priest why he eats pork, ask a Catholic why he wears polyblend clothing, ask a fundamentalist why no longer stone palm readers.

You will get the same answer each time, because Christ changed things through his sacrificing act.

We cannot save ourselves, but instead require the mercy and forgiveness of the Lord.

The reason we no longer follow the Law like Jews try to is that we recognize that we cannot stop sinning, we cannot find salvation through our actions but only through Christ.

This could be considered one of the universal-mores of Christianity, however just as in the sociological theory, universal-mores are only ALMOST universal. You can be safe saying they apply to all, even if they apply only to 99%

[edit on 9-3-2008 by cavscout]

Originally posted by cavscout
Go ask a priest why he eats pork, ask a Catholic why he wears polyblend clothing, ask a fundamentalist why no longer stone palm readers.

and then ask a priest why he piddles with little boys' fiddles.

You will get the same answer each time, because Christ changed things through his sacrificing act.

How dynamic this moral relativism has become!

Are you so sure it was Christ that changed and not this 'Pauline' flavored Church?

we cannot find salvation through our actions but only through Christ.

Erm... so you're saying you don't take actions when you find salvation through Christ? Interesting. I'd like to hear you expand that idea.

This could be considered one of the universal-mores of Christianity, however just as in the sociological theory, universal-mores are only ALMOST universal. You can be safe saying they apply to all, even if they apply only to 99%

No offense but you said you are a huge sinner who is doomed in the eyes of the Lord, but now you are explaining to us how we are 'safe' if we follow this 99% moral relativistic version of The Lord's universal morality?

If I misinterpreted that last one or took it out of context please let me know.

I really can't believe what I'm reading. Is life so difficult for gay people in the US that they need a 'Movement'? I didn't realise the country was so homophobic. Why does everyone keep referring to Religion?

[edit on 9/3/08 by Myrdyn]

Just to play devil's advocate, isnt this woman guaranteed protection behind the first amendment? Even if she had made racist comments or worse, doesnt she have a right to her own opinion no matter how stupid or ignorant it may be?

In my opinion this story highlights the weakness of democratic procedure sometimes. The voters clearly had no idea what sort of person they were voting for.

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation


I think that the problem with Sally kern and her followers are hidden behind the suppression of the sexual kind their type of homophobia is nothing far from racism.

Her comments are promoting segregation and hate crimes, as usual is going to be followers that will be influence in their ignorance to commit restless crimes that under their own version of self-righteousness they will see not evil but redemption.

She has forgotten in her pursue of personal misguided agendas that she as a public figure is suppose to work for the citizens right and that is not limited of people of her choosing.

She is creating antagonism and directing them to one particular group in society, she is a shame as a political leader.

Originally posted by Sunsetspawn

To overcome this negative reaction to homosexuality it takes an open mind and a willingness to be more than a primative, aggressive product of evolution. We are a nasty, vile species that is prone to hatred, conflict, war, and murder, so it takes a proactive effort to overcome our natural tendancy toward aggressive, negative emotions.

Normally I am a very accepting person who likes to makes sense of all points of view. That said, your rational concerning homosexuality, and the short-sighted accusation from those that do not accept is without merit, IMHO.

From what I gather, you're comparing our animal instincts with our inability to accept what should be accepted if only we were more open-minded?

I am open-minded (peruse my threads for proof), but I think their is something more genetically esoteric happening with homosexuality. And when that esoteric "happening" effects a weak-minded person, he is left as an example of the genetic uniqueness.

Now, as with anything, the overall acceptance is based on the representatives of the cause. And unfortunately, homosexuality does not have enough positive examples to speak of. The negative ones are everywhere. i.e. Priests, Michael Jackson, Republican Senators, and Pedophiles to name a few.

And I left what was written in the bible out for obvious reasons.

"Homosexuality cannot be fully accepted until it is fully understood." - AAC



[edit on 9-3-2008 by AnAbsoluteCreation]

Originally posted by TheTruthIsHere7
Hahahahahhhahahahahaha.

Gays infilitrating the council....hah....ahahahahaha......


Come on now people.

This world is filled with homosexuals like greek mythology.

Check it, don't pass judgment cos you have a homophobe problem. Let the queers be. Sorry, I'm not a homophobe. IF they want to be gay, let them be gay.

Seriouslly, we can't stop them.

Just because someone is homosexual doesn't mean that they're bad.

What about all the lesbian dyke cops on the police force?

Come on, what about GAYS IN THE MILITARY?

Gays are everywhere, it's personal choice.


Just accept it.

For the record, I didn't chose to be gay... I would never have chosen to be ridiculed, beat up, made fun of, and completely alienated for the last 21 years. This country has been like this for many, many years. Many people are very misguided when it comes to religion. I believe in myself personally. Although my whole life I've been told that it's wrong, and basically had people look at me with faces of disgust... I understand their pain... countless men in this country are gay... they have wives... children... government jobs. They hide it, and condemn others for accepting themselves because they cannot. Countless woman suspect their husbands are gay, and they again... condemn the ones who have found truth in themselves, because their husbands haven't. I'm not angry at this woman for not wanting gays on the council. She doesn't know any better. Or perhaps she knows all too well... and her distorted faith conflicts her. I suppose some are content with not evolving in their lifetime.

More on topic, well at least how the thread evolved, I am going to post some Jesus quotes, because eveyone loves that.

I found it funny some people quoted a few passages that could be loosely interpreted as anti-gay, most of which were not actually quotes of Jesus Christ and claim it's the voice of Christ As for the Pauline and modern flavor... I think many people over looked an earlier post that showed Kings James freely and openly was bisexual.

Anyways, here is some quotes that might add a new light to this thread:

"Blessed are the peacemakers; for they shall be called the sons of God"
~ Matthew 5:9

"Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven"
~Matthew 5:10

"Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake"
~ Matthew 5:11

"This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.
~John 15:12

‘"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another"
~ John 13:34-35

“For God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only Son, so that everyone who believes in him will not perish but have eternal life. God sent his Son into the world not to judge the world, but to save the world through him. (John 3:16-17)

“Do to others whatever you would like them to do to you. This is the essence of all that is taught in the law and the prophets. (Matthew 7:12)

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy


Thanks for the verses, at last they show a side of Christianity that the preachers taking over ATS lately has forgotten in their pursue of self misguided righteousness and hell bound preaching.

Well,her modest little politcal career has just ended one less biblethumper in power.

I am bible-thumping Christian, and I am 100% for gay marriage. Why? Because it is not the directive of the state to direct whom and whom shall not be married. I personally do not agree with homosexuality, but the government cannot and should not ever attempt to regulate anything that people do as consenting adults, including marriage. Churches who wish to wed gay people have every right to, and the state must accept all applications for marriage because the government has no business being involved in such things.

I disagree with what this representative said, but she has a right to say it. Just because speech isn't popular doesn't mean it should be banned. Legislators have a right to express their freedom of speech, as long as they do so within the constraints of the law (no yelling fire in a crowded theatre, etc.). She doesn't deserve to be thrown out because she exercised her speech - unless the voters deem it so. The fact that she said something unpopular which I personally disagree with does not at all mean that she is an ineffective legislature - although she very well may be - but that is up for her voters to decide.


[edit on 9-3-2008 by pacificwind]

This is sad.

Not the at what the lady said but at the amount of people who just seem to have no sense in when to just shut up.

Seriously.

If your gay. Fine. Be Happy

If your str8. Great. Be Happy.

I'm sick of the SAME people posting the SAME utterly predictable replies about how "Screw God! and Screw the Bible! because I want to live in my own little world of self-pleasure and self-destructive perversions and I won't take no for and answer."





[edit on 9-3-2008 by 168.56.255.255]

[edit on 9-3-2008 by 168.56.255.255]