Sally Kern, "Gay's are Infiltrating our City Council."

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Race and who you sleep with are not related.

Bad try WW

Kerns and you are persecuting us based on hateful stereotypes. People of race fell victim to similar persecution.

African Americans were made slaves in America, and for a while no one had moral issues with it because their skin color alone made them less superior to white skinned people. The Germans genocide of 'Jews' was always based on a stereotyped persecution of race. The point is persecution based on hatefull stereotypes..

I am not implying the persecution of homosexuals is more or less worse then the two just mentioned. That's not my point.

The point is... this type of persecution can escalate. Perhaps to the point of genocide of homosexuals? Based on what Kerns said and what you Christians have said in this thread, I would be really surprised to find out that isn't what you want of us.

All we are asking for is equality. We are not asking for your wives or your children. Why does gays getting married to eachother affect the integrity of heterosexual marriage? Can you explain that directly and specifically?

Homosexuals are not a race....

It's genetic like race though Hence the reason both homosexuality and race are "natural"

Oh me oh my, Fellas, you all should take a breather and remind yourself that other people's bigotry and hatred isn't any reason to get up in arms and make personal accusations.

We've got two sorts of Christians here, and while you may not agree with BigWhammy, he was at least making a good effort at dialogue with the rest of us.

The consortium of folks who've joined the discussion to needlessly gay-bash and recite ad nauseum that Gay's are sinners and destroying the world only reveal themselves to the Lord for what they are, and I only feel sadness that they hold such malice in their heart for any fellow man regardless of their sins.

Addressing their accusations is fruitless in a discussion setting, they will believe as they believe irregardless of logic or common sense until they come to accept that their beliefs may be flawed; just as the rest of us do.

That being said, I'm going to try and respond as best I can to the topics brought up in the last several pages.

Lucid; I was the person who commented on differing factors which contributed to the decline of civilizations, and any good economist can cite more reasons than I have in this thread.

For those of you present who are railing that Mrs. Kernes is correct that Homosexuality is a cancer that is a symptom of the downfall of society, I will concede this small point; Yes, Homosexuality does tend to contribute to the stresses of society as well as cause some turmoil in how we define family.

Historically, it has been true that open homosexuality tends to cause some societal rifts to form, but I say this to you; Those rifts exist only because of religious pressures upon society in direct ignorance of the important social role that Homosexuality plays in all social groups (Both in human populations as well as other populations that exhibit homosexual behavior in tight knit social groups).

Homosexuality has existed for as long as culture has, and plays a very important role in social dynamics and stress relief. Many, many sociologists have studied the matter.

In response to BigWhammy; I truly wish in my heart of hearts that you will come to realize that the literature you were saying supported your position is very likely based largely on Correlary data; such that Homosexuals existed openly near the end of Rome, so because it was so, there must be a connection.

This is false logic, it doesn't hold water. It would be as if I said that Higher Education was always exhibited by civilizations in decline, or that Social Welfare programs were present and that these two reasons are the cause for all societal collapse.

Society, Nations, and Empires throughout time are complex in their dynamics. It is difficult to reduce to one particular component what causes their collapse, but in all cases and in all times, collapse has more to do with economic reasons than it does with social. Social organization degrades in the face of scarcity and hard times.

When people cannot live comfortably and pursue their desires freely, hostility ensues and scapegoating occurs. Famous Scapegoats throughout history have been Occultists, Scientists, Gnostics, Muslims, Homosexuals, Hebrews, and practically any identifiable group that defines themselves differently than the societal mores or norms of the day. Hostility, murder, blame and accusation are always heaped upon the different... including that God is Displeased with society because of this group or that group.

Let me remind some of our Evangelical or Baptist brethren present, All sin is equal, including Original Sin (Because most Baptists and Evangelicals believe in original sin). If you ascribe to the concept of Original Sin, you cannot place judgment upon Homosexuals because you are unclean from birth.

We are all sinners, and Christ wants us to live a good life. He does not expect anyone to come to him free of sin, but so long as you live a good life all your sins are forgiven.

I commented earlier that I would like someone to relate exactly how Homosexuality leads to the decline of a nation, how does it CONTRIBUTE to it? Some attempted to answer that it compromises the cohesiveness of the family unit.

Living 4000 miles from your mother and father compromise the cohesiveness of the family unit. Creating hostility between men and women through legal favoritism towards females in custody battles compromises the cohesiveness of the family unit (And sets poor example for those unfortunate children caught in the disastrously bad breakups that occur daily in our nation).

Expectation that Marriage itself is a failed concept compromises the cohesiveness of the Family Unit. All in all, when you look at how Social engineering has affected the Nuclear Family, Homosexuality is possibly one of the LEAST effective dissolvers of family units.

Those families that break up because a child is found to be gay never deserved to have children to begin with, and cannot in good conscience look at Christ without shame.

There are so many things in this country that destroy what family itself means that focusing on Homosexuality is literally, quite LITERALLY hysterical to a godly extreme.

And one of the primary causes that destroys family is expectation of religion. Shun the sinner, hate the sin. Christians have a responsibility to God and to Themselves to try and promote peace and LOVE to all people. UNDERSTANDING, and Tolerance!

It is lack of forgiveness and understanding that harbor the decline of society. It is selfishness, and the "ME" meme in America that compromises our integrity.

That church's do not welcome gay's with open arms, to try and teach them love and virtue and how even they can contribute to the betterment of their fellow man means that Christians are viewed as ignorant elitistes, the worst kind because they do not even have any real superiority... merely imagined.

But they will point their fingers, and they will make their accusations, and in the twilight of the shining beacon that was this once great nation they will spew hatred and some will write books that claim Homosexuality destroyed America. After all, it wasn't abuse of power, it wasn't screwing the little man, it wasn't shipping the entire economy into different countries, it wasn't hatemongering and fear of inanimate objects, video-games, teachers and whathave you.

No, it COULDN'T be any of these things. It has to be that people had sex with Donkey's, or let men stick their penises into other men.

Cold Dargon,that was a very well thought out post. Thank you.

Originally posted by Acidtastic
Cold Dargon,that was a very well thought out post. Thank you.

I second that notion

I am way too tired to add anything though. I am off to bed! See you guys tomorrow

night night,sleep tight,don't let the homos bite

Originally posted by Conspiriology The only irony I see is that I am not the one trying to spread my filthy laundry across the internet saying I have a right to be heard and not judged for my sick sinful acts...
You are NOTHING like me but there was a time I was a lot like you.

I guess that sums up this particular debater. I get included in his diatribe, and I suppose I'm some atheistic anti-Christian homosexual blah, blah, blah. George Carlin came up with some line about 'I used to be screwed up on drugs, now I'm screwed up on God'. Same condition, new focus.

I see a lot of that in this thread. I hinted that one poster's homophobia came from conflicted emotions on the subject, and that happens a lot, too. Look at some of the GOP and far-right religious scandals of late. What Kerns and these self-styled Christian spokespeople are missing is that folks just want to be left alone. Judging a 'group' by the excesses of Pride Week is about as sound as judging western society by Christmas...or God forbid (winking) Hallowe'en. Agenda? C'mon...it's just civil rights and/or manners.

We have legalized homosexual marriages and other legal conventions in Canada, and the world still turns. I laugh because our right-wingers went on the record to say "civil unions yes, marriage no", and they were hounded for it by lefty-libs like me. In the States, they'd still have been ridden out of town on a rail.

If I were a Bible totin' Christian worried about the state of the world, I'd be putting my efforts towards feeding, housing and educating my neighbours. Not fretting about what lawful pursuits politicians follow outside of their legislative offices. My God is ok with that.

Self-edit here to say that I am unabashedly straight. I simply feel uncomfortable seeing self-rightious hypocracy put forth calling itself Christianity. See...I stick up for Christianity, too.

[edit on 15-4-2008 by JohnnyCanuck]

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck

Originally posted by Conspiriology The only irony I see is that I am not the one trying to spread my filthy laundry across the internet saying I have a right to be heard and not judged for my sick sinful acts...
You are NOTHING like me but there was a time I was a lot like you.

I guess that sums this particulate debater. I get included in his diatribe, and I suppose I'm some atheistic anti-Christian homosexual blah, blah, blah. George Carlin came up with some line about 'I used to be screwed up on drugs, now I'm screwed up on God'. Same condition, new focus.

I see a lot of that in this thread. I hinted that one poster's homophobia came from conflicted emotions on the subject, and that happens a lot, too. Look at some of the GOP and far-right religious scandals of late. What Kerns and these self-styled Christian spokespeople are missing is that folks just want to be left alone. Judging a 'group' by the excesses of Pride Week is about as sound as judging western society by Christmas...or God forbid (winking) Hallowe'en. Agenda? C'mon...it's just civil rights.

We have legalized homosexual marriages and other legal conventions in Canada, and the world still turns. I laugh because our right-wingers went on the record to say "civil unions yes, marriage no", and they were hounded for it by lefty-libs like me. In the States, they'd still have been ridden out of town on a rail.

If I were a Bible totin' Christian worried about the state of the world, I'd be putting my efforts towards feeding, housing and educating my neighbours. Not fretting about what lawful pursuits politicians follow outside of their legislative offices. My God is ok with that.

quality post you've got going on there. Especially the last bit. There are far more important things to be worrying about than where I put my dinkle. I dunno,like war,famine,poverty,corruption.

reply to post by Lucid Lunacy

eah the gay community wants equality. The "blacks" wanted equality when they were persecuted as well. They eventually got theirs because America finally accepted the fact that the persecution was immoral. A similar understanding is happening in the Minds' of Americans concerning homosexuality... hence the reason you guys are so scared.

Gay is not a race. You are not in the same position as African Americans. A black man can not modify his behavior and cease to be black. You do not have to live a homosexual life style. While you may not have a choice that you have a proclivity toward a certain sin (homosexuality) you do not have to act on it. Hence your claim for equality is invalid. You are already equal, you just have to stop acting out on your weakness.

You want permission not equality.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Isn't there a 'drunkeness' gene, too?
I mean, why not give hobos hate-crime protection and benefits?

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Well, Michael Jackson ceased to be Black

Your bigotry knows no bounds, truly.

There is one 'race' of humans...one only. Mitochondrial DNA proves this.

Skin color is due to genetics, sexual orientation is due to genetics...one just happens to be more obvious than the other.

Maybe a silly belief in an imaginary 'friend' is also genetic.

Sally Kern's comments are vile, and the firestorm this thread has produced is tending to be equally vile, but mostly from one side, the alleged 'christians'.

See, having sexual urges does not equate to sin...sin is fake, it is invented, it is designed to control, by those who invented the concept in the first place. It is, quite frankly, a load of cow manure.

Two consenting adults....I emphasize the words...'consenting' and 'adults' there, on purpose. That is nobody's business, but theirs. So, BUTT OUT!

reply to post by Clearskies


Clearskies, ditto for the post I just wrote as regards BW.

Your bigotry is apparent, in everything you write. Too bad you don't use your God-Given brain for better things than hatred.

WW

*sorry I am angry...it just is difficult to keep a civil tongue, sometimes, when faced with such stupidity*

|---NO IFS ANDS OR BUTTS---|

Orignally posted by Just about everybody in this thread

Bigot... Bigot!! ...Bigot... You're a Bigot... What a bigot! ...Bigot...

Originally posted by weedwhacker
Maybe a silly belief in an imaginary 'friend' is also genetic.

Let everyone know when they discover it so spiritual-religionists-theists can use the word bigot. Until then we can stick with hypocrite when people who claim to be generalized and mocked turn around to generalize and mock others.

So, BUTT OUT!

It seems everyone in this thread agrees with your Butt out sentiments in one way or another --- if anyone cares to catch my double inference.

[edit on 4/15/08 by Snoopy64]

[edit on 4/15/08 by Snoopy64]

reply to post by weedwhacker


I didn't bring up race. Gay is not a race. You homosexuals keep trying to equate your selves with racial struggles. Give it up. Its your behavior that's the problem. You are already equal. Just change your behavior. You have a choice in your behavior no matter what you "think" or your "preference". Sorry we don't get to do what ever we want children.

I'm between the devil and the deep blue sea over this. Bigotry is as scarce as hen's teeth around here. I see incredible patience and tolerance. The sun don't shine on the same dog's tail all the time, so you will get what you deserve. If you believe homosexuality is something you are born with; please just consider it a birth defect and move on. I mean even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then. It's your choice if you adopt a gay lifestyle. Please just say no. You can be celibate or get therapy and become hetrosexual. Those are the acceptable options in the eyes of GOD.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


BW, why will you not take a moment, sit back with a chill pill, and read what I actually write, rather than selectively 'quoting' in order to distort and malign?

Thanks, I would appreciate the same dignity and respect that you seem to crave.

WW

Originally posted by Jack Thomas Chick
It's your choice if you adopt a gay lifestyle. Please just say no. You can be celibate or get therapy and become hetrosexual. Those are the acceptable options in the eyes of GOD.

What an ignorant little man you are. You don’t know what God find acceptable, 1: He never told you, unless you actually spoke to him? 2: My God is actually full of love; your God seems full of hate.

If I got to the gates and met with your God and he refused me entry because of the way I am, the way I was born. I would tell him to go shove his heaven where the sun doesn’t shine and I’d join the party down in hell. Who would want to get into a heaven full of people with hate?

Thankfully I don’t believe your version of god actually exists. I believe in a god that loves everyone, even you.

I just find it ironic that someone like you who knowingly commits sin everyday and ignores parts of the bible, the same bible you preach from yet you claim to be actually Christian. As if!

As for seeking therapy, you might want to say that into the mirror.

Mikey


[edit on 15/4/2008 by Mikey84]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Bigwhammy

 

Well, Michael Jackson ceased to be Black

Your bigotry knows no bounds, truly.

There is one 'race' of humans...one only. Mitochondrial DNA proves this.

Skin color is due to genetics, sexual orientation is due to genetics...one just happens to be more obvious than the other.

YOU played the race card. You are behaving mored bigoted thatn anyone here. There is no proof that homosexuality is genetic, sorry its just a theory. Plus no one can just look at you and tell (if you don't dress up). So it is not equivalent. Stop using you racial stereotypes and klu klux klan style reasoning to defend your sexual choices.

reply to post by Jack Thomas Chick




I'll sit back and roast a marshmallow as this guy continues to make a mockery of Christianity.

Mod edit- please refrain from name calling, Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.

[edit on 16-4-2008 by asala]

Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. The homosexuals will not belly up to the bar and face the mustard. They do not have to act on their desires. It's a choice to behave that way, regardless of dispositon. It's a cold hard fact. A man is too apt to forget that in this world he cannot have everything. A choice is all that is left to him.


Is this a website completely biased in its rule enforcement?

Posted by Sublime620
Oh God, this wacko's here.

Terms & Conditions
Don't call people names or otherwise insult them. Treat a discussion on ATS as though it were a face-to-face discussion with a group of people in person!

He should get the same treatment as the Christian fellow above. A red flag.








[edit on 16-4-2008 by Jack Thomas Chick]