Sally Kern, "Gay's are Infiltrating our City Council.", page 3

reply to post by forestlady

---

In my opinion, you're incorrect. She does have the right and if those who elected her agree, she isn't doing anything "wrong". She also has the responsibility to live with the repercussions of her actions. If the people don't agree with her, she will be removed from office.

IMO, you're attempting to defend your fascist calls for silence by putting a fancy outfit on it.

If you don't agree with her, that's great. I sure don't. But, to say she shouldn't have the right to say it or she shouldn't be allowed to say it in public is wrong and intellectually dishonest, IMO.

She can say whatever she wants. She can also live with the repercussions of her actions. If the town agrees with her, and I sure hope not, she's not doing anything wrong, per se. We may not agree with her, we may think she's a tool but if she is accurately representing the views of the electorate, she's actually doing her job.

The way to defeat people like this is through the exchange of ideas, articulate discussion and making the best case against her we can.

The wrong way to defeat her is to embrace your own brand of fascism.

Please understand, I am not advocating, defending or agreeing with what she said. I am questioning the charge of fascism and the fascist-like remedies some are voicing. That’s all =)
Can we agree on that?

reply to post by blackthorne

---

Seriously, we are talking about dolphins using sex toys? Come on..........lol. Did we actually use tax dollars for this "study"? Wow.

Seriously, who cares what dolphins do (Sexually)? I sure don't. I reject dolphin evidence as evidence of anything other than what dolphins like. As far as group sex: are they supposed to find a room somewhere? I think the fallacy is attributing human behavior to a wild animal.

I thought we were talking about a council woman's opinions?

I'm seeing a lot of facts and figures being thrown around with zero sourcing. Aren't the biggest lies in life lies, dam lies and statistics?

I said this all tongue-in-cheek and if it seems like I am actually, forceful arguing, I am not. I think my points are valid, but I certainly am not hot under the collar and am trying to invoke a kidding tone.

Let's all lighten up =)

I think we can discuss one vocal woman in the middle of the country without pulling out the aquatic evidence, no?

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar

---

She is supposed to be representing the people. Wanting to disenfranchise a whole group of people is NOT democratic; how does anything this woman says promote democracy?
I believe in freedom of speech with my whole heart; but I don't think it's responsible for any political representative to espouse this kind of bigotry. Hate speech helps no one and doesn't provide even one benefit to society, but it can perpetuate incorrect stereotypes and foment riots, etc.

Ya know, several long-time Southern senators have been castigated (and still are) for making anti-Black statements and that was about 50 years ago. This woman is doing the exact same thing, but it's OK for her to to be a bigot? Where's the fairness in that?

reply to post by forestlady

---

Stop, slow down and breathe. You've attributed something’s to my comments I didn't say.

My thesis is thus: she didn't say anything "fascist". Articulating an opinion - even an unpopular one - is not facist. Saying she should be silenced because you don't agree with her opinion is.

She isn't disenfranchising anyone with her comments. You're (IMO) claiming a whole lot more weight to one woman's opinion as a way to legitimize your (IMO) fascist call for her silence, while at the same time calling her a fascist for simply articulating her opinion.

If she does represent the public's local opinion on this subject, then she's not doing anything "wrong" per se.

I didn't say she was right, or that I agreed, or anything like that. We agree, with the exception that I don't think those that disagree with me should be removed from public office for expressing an opinion. Even if that opinion is born from stupidity.

EDIT: I didn't directly answer your questions and I apologize for that. I think the term "hate speech" is thrown around by the gay and lesbian community when they should be using the term "opinion". It's not hate speech, IMO, to have a negative opinion of the gay lifestyle. It's not hate speech to claim, like a complete fool, that the city council is being "infiltrated" by gays. It's stupid to be sure, but not hate speech. I honestly believe that the point your trying to make, while dancing around it, is that people should not be allowed to have this opinion, nor should they be allowed to articulate it because you don’t agree with it.

The system will take care of her, or if the electorate agrees with her, they won’t. Either way, there are checks and balances in place to deal with this. The problem is, not everyone sees things the way we do. More importantly, to force them to see things the way we do is, in fact, facist.

She, they, them are entitled to their opinion and the electorate is entitled to representation that reflects their, locally held views. Even if we don’t agree with them.

That's all.


[edit on 9-3-2008 by SlightlyAbovePar]

reply to post by cavscout

---

I was replying to your assertion of what we "should" do. Please take a moment to take a deep breath before you you get your knickers in a twist. I suppose emotion-vomitting is what you refer to as expressing evidence contrary to the accepted.

The animal homosexual activity link was in response to another poster's assertion that animals don't have sex for fun. Scientifically speaking, not true. Has nothing to do with the places I "deficate" (sic). If you need any more help discerning my posts, please don't hesitate to ask.


[edit on 3/9/08 by themillersdaughter]

reply to post by SlightlyAbovePar

---

I don't believe he was referring to dolphins using sex toys, but bonobos.
And it was in response to an erroneous assertion that lesbians all do. In an effort to deny ignorance, would you have people NOT address obvious fallacies?

The research that I mentioned included names and dates it was conducted.
I'm sure it's available on the net.

The dolphin behavior was actually a NOVA, and no..they didn't get a hotel room...they just got together in a big old group. The film was the first of it's kind and was part of the study of pods and the way they use 'military style' drills to protect the young and sick of the pod.

Honestly, the thread would go this way:

Mean-spirited Christian fanatic expresses her opinion!!
What? Again? How rude!
End of thread.

When people post opinion as fact, it's MY opinion that they might be interested in knowing they are wrong, so they don't go about in ignorance.

Of course...that's just my opinion. Often people are so trapped in their belief systems they really don't care about the actual facts.

Edit for typos and sarcasm

[edit on 3/9/08 by themillersdaughter]

reply to post by themillersdaughter

---

Okay, no problem. I was trying to interject some humor into a conversation I thought might be heading into total anger.

I appreciate and understand your view and if I (in any way) minimized your opinion, please accept my apology. I certainly didn't mean to.

I hope we can discuss something as charged as this and at the end of the day, even if we don't agree, be on the same "side".

Cheers!

reply to post by cavscout

---

Actually, what got me that warn was a Christian fanatic who took umbrage at a post that asserted that if Christians didn't want to live by ALL the tenets of their faith they should "shut the hell up" because they were only giving lip service to their dead god. Funnily enough, it was directed at no PARTICULAR Christian or poster on this forum.

Regardless, it was a pretty funny thing to happen as I was given applause for contributing to the thread (Sauron) and after shift change was given the warning (FredT) taking those 500 points away. Personally, I'm not really sure what the point thing is all about, but it seemed pretty strange that the comment was there for hours before it was seen as insulting to someone (evidently some absent apostate Christian?)

And this seems a little off topic (apologies to the OP), but it seemed appropriate to correct your wrong assumption.



[edit on 3/9/08 by themillersdaughter]

reply to post by AnAbsoluteCreation

---

if this woman have such a hate for gays and she is actually promoting fear about gays, and she is fearful about how the gays would change her and every other persons way of living. and across this country people have been tortured and killed for being gay... couldn't you say she was a terriost?...i mean all you have to do is to substitute the word "gay" and put in the word "american", and you get my drift.

reply to post by SavageHenry

---

One long series. After watching for just a few moments already agitates me and makes me rather mad I'm forced to go to church.

Edit - when I say first few moments I mean like 1-3 minutes or so

[edit on 9-3-2008 by Leviatano]

reply to post by SavageHenry

---

why you kill them of course... and isn't that a great philosphy for our times. i'm still amazed that people still take the bible literally.

Originally posted by cavscout
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

---

That letter was written to a Jew. You look ignorant trying to apply it to Christians.

The reason that letter is so effective is that it is not applied to its intended audience, the Jews, who for the most part WOULD agree that those things are abominations and that those people should be killed, even if contemporary Jewish leaders will not often allow it.

Yet you falsely direct this letter at Christians, the majority of whom have no idea why it is a sin to follow the laws of Leviticus because Leviticus is a book of laws that have not been taught to Christians.

Um...so the Old Testament is no longer a part of the Bible? I kinda thought the deal was that it was all the word of God.

Silly me...just carry on then...

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

---

Look, if you want me to explain it to you again I will, but I don’t think you do based on your dismissive statements. You are a smart fellow, I think you understood what I said.

If you want to go on in willful ignorance that is fine with me but know that every time you pull that letter out to show Christians that you are intentionally deceiving people by choosing to remain ignorant of Christianity.

Use that letter on the Jews to whom it was originally penned.

Alaska: Samantha Koenig Kidnapped last week.
  Posted 2 days ago with 111 member flags

Blue Spheres Fall from the Sky in the UK
  Posted 15 days ago with 81 member flags

The Chinese have seen the dragon in the sky !!
  Posted 2 days ago with 68 member flags

Strange Sounds in Sky Explained by Scientists
  Posted 11 days ago with 59 member flags

She Dialed 911. The Cop Who Came to Help Raped Her.
  Posted 5 days ago with 49 member flags

Anonymous: Revealing The Arcane Legal Trick Behind ACTA
  Posted 12 days ago with 42 member flags

NDAA Nullification: Tennessee Bills Propose Kidnapping Charges for Federal Agents
  Posted 3 days ago with 38 member flags

Anonymous reveals Haditha massacre emails | RT
  Posted 7 days ago with 33 member flags

Newest topics, updated in real-time:

Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:

Newest topics getting replies, in real-time: