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Sally Kern, "Gay's are Infiltrating our City Council."

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posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 05:00 PM
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The woman can say what she wants, I'm just interested in how and if she vocalized her bigoted opinions while campaigning to be on the council. If she did, she's nothing more than an ignorant innocent that's been thrust into the line of fire by the real culprits, the voters who elected her and her positions.

I don't think that's the case though. I say this woman should be removed from her position not because of what she's saying (this is America, it's either free speech or no speech) but because she misrepresented herself to the voters, who had no idea she held such hateful agendas and ideas.

I sincerely hope that the second case is true.

Citizens of Oklahoma and everyone else, let this woman know that her bigotry doesn't represent you and that the BLATANT lies she tells in support of her argument (and they are lies, she's a teacher she knows that societies don't collapse because of homosexuality) are not acceptable.

www.okhouse.gov...



posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by Christian Voice
There goes the name calling again. Stop calling people ignorant and bigots.
Greeneyed,,,, you don't go to church, which was commanded by God, you don't believe what the Bible clearly says about homosexuality yet you claim to be a Christian. You are a living breathing oxymoron.

An oxymoron (plural oxymorons or, more rarely, oxymora) is a figure of speech that combines two normally contradictory terms. Oxymoron is a loanword from Greek oxy ("sharp") and moros ("dull"). Thus the word oxymoron is itself an oxymoron.

Oxymorons are a proper subset of the expressions called contradictions in terms. What distinguishes oxymorons from other paradoxes and contradictions is that they are used intentionally, for rhetorical effect, and the contradiction is only apparent, as the combination of terms provides a novel expression of some concept, such as "cruel to be kind".
en.wikipedia.org...

Forestlady, no need for you to cuss me either. I have not cussed you, now I expect the same from you. As for your misguided assumtion that Jesus doesn't care about homosexuality, here....

“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate" (Mark 10:6-9).


I didn't cuss you, I was expressing myself about my reaction to your post. Now, instead of being defensive, how about you answer my question, hmm??? And since you didn't like the way I put it the first time, how about this:
WHO THE HELL ARE YOU TO JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE'S DEVOTION TO CHRISTIANITY? OR ANY OTHER RELIGLION????

I'll go one further, as well. It is mostly becauase of this anti-gay stance that I don't go to church any more and am not a Christian any more. After all, if the congregation is not following Jesus' words and the are judging otehrs by now allowing them in their church, what's to keep that congregation from scapegoating me because I may be different somehow? Yes, that's right CV, "Christians" like you are what made me leave the Church. You follow man-made laws, interpreted by your preacher, who may or may not have any ability to discern the truth. But, in my view, you are not following Jesus' when you discriminate against an entire group of people. You say you don't hate them...but isn't the act of making sure they are not in the City Council, church, etc. a hateful act? Isn't disapproving of them being judgmental? It's hurtful to them. Try reading some stories from gay people about how they've been treated in some so-called Christian churches.



posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Christian Voice

God destroyed Sodom and Gomora because of their perversions, specificly homosexuality.


No.

God said he destroyed them because they were immoral. Period. Alluding it was primarily because the towns people were selfish and were not hospitable to outsiders i.e they did not help the poor and the needy.

Here is a relevant verse:

Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

—Jude 1:7

So "strange flesh" translates to your mind as God hating homosexuals?

*Edited to add more:

"To suggest that Sodom and Gomorrah is about homosexual sex is an analysis of about as much worth as suggesting that the story of Jonah and the whale is a treatise on fishing."
~Christian theologist (name was anonymous)

Perhaps you are refering to the portion were the townspeople attempt to gang-rape a man? I hope you are able to make the distinction between rape and sex...

[edit on 063131p://10u26 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 07:13 PM
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The legislator in question was interviewed by CNN.

She appears to be trying to portray herself as some sort of free speech martyr.
Odd, since nobody seems to have tried to stop her from speaking...

She certainly does have the right to speak her mind.

Then again so does everyone else, and if people choose to express their displeasure or criticize what she said, that hardly constitutes oppression.



posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 07:33 PM
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Originally posted by xmotex
The legislator in question was interviewed by CNN.


Right on thanks for the update Xmotex


I am viewing it now, and i'll edit my thoughts into this post afterwards.



posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 11:49 PM
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Frankly, I am not Chirstian, Buddhist, Muslim, hindu Jew or Athiest. I do not have a religion. I prefer to enjoy the benefits of any religion, and create my own faith out of it.

I put the people in my avatar because I respect them as men of virtue, honor, and integrity, values lacking all too much in today's society.

I was accused repeatedly of spreading hate and disrespect where I do not believe I have shown any. I dont hate homosexuals nor do I believe they should be deprived any rights.

I dont mind them getting married, I dont even mind them adopting children, holding office or any of that. None of that is my business, because I simply make my opinion based on the virtues and ethics of each individual.

Fact of the matter is though, there are people, homosexual people, or people with homosexual feelings that do not want them. It is akin to people who were born one sex, and do not want to be that sex anymore. The thing is, it is perfectly fine for these people to change their gender physically. If I make the suggestion that there actually is homosexuals that do not want the feelings they have, it is because I "pick on them" or abuse them, or because they do not longer want to tolerate any abuse.

Well if you are a psychic, I guess you can make that claim. My friend that I met three years ago initially had a crush on me, and I found out from the chick I was hooking up with. I confront him kindly and told him it just wont happen. "have you ever considered hooking up with chicks at all?" i says to him.

Well then he goes and tells me "of course, I love women they are beautiful and I would love to have a relationship, but I cant because I am gay." Well I said why dont you at least try it? So I helped him as if he was just a shy guy that needed help with girls. After a couple of weeks I set him up with one of the shoppers at our Wal-Mart, and they went out a few times.

He goes on to tells me that he is really enjoying the time he is spending with her and all that, and he tries to fight urges to hit on men and does his best not to think of them in certain ways. Of course I did not really want to hear details. Not only that, I just simply did not have the capacity to assist this guy with his dilemma. I was not a some kind of physician or anything, I am just some guy. And up until I met him, I did not even realize that there were homosexuals that wanted to become hetero. Not "BI-sexual", but honest to truth wanted to be straight. That issue never even crossed my mind in life.

Well he was not around much longer, people come and go at Wal-Mart. Just another person you meet in life ya know. Sure opened my eyes up though. If this person indeed never chose to be gay, then in his mind, with his future goals, he has to treat the ideology as if it is an illness that has to be cured. Otherwise how can he ever achieve his goals? Is he damned to a life of torment because he just has no other choice? I dont really want to accept that, and as far as I knew, neither did he.

So please don't come at me with ignroance, hate and all that. I dont claim that all gay people are sick, but some look at themselves that way not because they are hounded, but apparantley because they wish upon themselves a straight life.

So if someone wans to claim a homosexual only wants to not be gay because he is abused, then please by all means give me this weeks lotto numbers, because apparantley you are psychic and know for a fact the thinking of an entire group of people. Obviously you will know how to make me rich?



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by DYepes
 


A reasoned post, and I understand your position better now, though I do not entirely agree.

You friend sounds like he was bisexual by inclination, identified as gay, and wanted to be straight. Not that unusual in my experience.

That would be my guess anyway - in my experience a many that identify as gay (and some that identify as straight) are actually functionally bisexual - which I suspect is actually a lot more common than exclusive homosexuality.



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 12:29 AM
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reply to post by DYepes
 


I enjoyed that post. Indeed, the topic does turn a shade of gray when talking about people who don't even want to be homosexual.

It gets to even more shades of gray when talking of people born with both sets of genetalia. What of them? Are they just doomed at the start?

Sometimes they pick the wrong sex, and the person ends up being a man who wants to be woman. Sometimes the person stays sort of in the middle, and likes both man and woman. Can anyone blame them? It wasn't their fault.



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by DYepes
I do not have a religion. I prefer to enjoy the benefits of any religion, and create my own faith out of it.


Great approach. That is mine as well


I hope you add some more compassion and tolerance and understanding to your belief system soon though. I have some reading material if you're interested.


I put the people in my avatar because I respect them as men of virtue, honor, and integrity, values lacking all too much in today's society.


Lacking indeed. As has been pointed out.


I was accused repeatedly of spreading hate and disrespect where I do not believe I have shown any. I dont hate homosexuals nor do I believe they should be deprived any rights.


Here is a recap on things you have said:

Blah blah blah. Homosexuality is naturally incorrect.

I as a human say if something is incorrect, it should be corrected.

Some of us are working on a program to help cure people of the incorrectness.

there should be a way to help treat other people's defects.

I dotn claim all homosexuals want to be cured... nor against it to desire to help this individual achieve his cure.

It's not scientifcially, physiologically, or genetically correct for life to be homosexual. It literally goes against the laws of nature


I dont mind them getting married, I dont even mind them adopting children, holding office or any of that. None of that is my business, because I simply make my opinion based on the virtues and ethics of each individual.


That's a wonderful approach again


Unfortunately you are failing to do that. And by that I mean that you are making judgment calls BEFORE you learn their individual virtues and ethics. Since you labeled gays (a general blanket statement) as incorrect, unnatural and in need of cures and treatments. If you had isolated your wording and intentions to the specific instance of your one friend who hit on you then it would be a night and day difference. But you didn't. You attributed it to all gays.


Fact of the matter is though, there are people, homosexual people, or people with homosexual feelings that do not want them. It is akin to people who were born one sex, and do not want to be that sex anymore.


Sure. Fair enough. Hell with a population of 7 billion you better believe there is straight people who wish they were gay. I'm not sure what you're alluding to though?

So far I feel like you are hinting that most gay people wish they were not gay. Is that the 'fact of the matter' you speak of? If so, since you already said they are scientifically wrong, unnatural, and in need of a treatment, it seems to me you are saying most gays are wrong and need to be cured. This mentality is quite common. The treatment for that is knowledge and compassion my friend



I make the suggestion that there actually is homosexuals that do not want the feelings they have, it is because I "pick on them" or abuse them, or because they do not longer want to tolerate any abuse.


Sorry I am not quite following that, but it's probably due to my tiredness.

A big point that was made earlier by me and others, was that many gay people have ill feelings about being gay simply because they are being persecuted all the time. Being labeled as "scientifically wrong", "unnatrual" and "in need of a cure". That seems so straight forward to me. Seriously man lets take this out of homosexual context. Pick something, anything, about yourself, wether you like or dislike it about yourself, and imagine countless people calling you "scientifically wrong", "unnatrual" and "in need of a cure" because of it...


because apparantley you are psychic and know for a fact the thinking of an entire group of people. Obviously you will know how to make me rich.


Come on man, let's keep this civil and mature. I said I had an "edge" on what the gay community thinks. Can I not say this? I just said "edge". I didn't say I know eveything that goes on in all gay peoples inner worlds



My friend that I met three years ago initially had a crush on me, and I found out from the chick I was hooking up with. I confront him kindly and told him it just wont happen. "have you ever considered hooking up with chicks at all?" i says to him.


I am sure I don't know the whole story but I am curious as to your motive for even asking that question at that point??

Why didn't you just right then and there offer to hook him up with another guy? Or just leave it at the fact that you were hetero and not interested?..

I am not suggesting you did something wrong by helping him find a girl. I am just wondering why you went in that direction at that time... when it was obvious he wanted to be with a guy.

Did you watch the X-Men movies? The scene were the parents ask the mutant kid "have you ever tried not being a mutant?" That's what it reminded me of. Especially after hearing you call gays incorrect, wrong and unnatural.


Well then he goes and tells me "of course, I love women they are beautiful and I would love to have a relationship, but I cant because I am gay." Well I said why dont you at least try it?


So he point blank says he can't because he is gay.

Again, why did you press the hetero thing further? I am really just trying to understand here.


He goes on to tells me that he is really enjoying the time he is spending with her and all that, and he tries to fight urges to hit on men and does his best not to think of them in certain ways.


So basically he is saying this:
he likes hanging out with the girl and he thanks you for helping him find a new friend. But he is also saying that he is gay. That he finds men suxually attractive. Yes, it sounds like he is having negative thoughts about it. Again, please try and consider the possibility that some if not all those negative feelings he has about homosexuallity was instilled into him from persecution. Maybe he does just want to be straight, but I am not reading that based on what you said he said.


Of course I did not really want to hear details.


Why? I thought he was your friend? You mean to say him talking about his attraction to men makes you uncomfortable? That's okay, but it is something to ponder.


I was not a some kind of physician or anything, I am just some guy.


I don't think he needed a physician, I think he needed a friend. And someone who would be understaning and compassionate about the fact that he finds same sex sexually attractive. And the fact that you didn't find him sexually attractive.


And up until I met him, I did not even realize that there were homosexuals that wanted to become hetero. Not "BI-sexual", but honest to truth wanted to be straight. That issue never even crossed my mind in life.


Woa Woa. What??.... How did you infer that he wanted to be straight? Or even bi? It seems clear he said he was gay and continued to find men sexually attractive even after you hooked him up with that girl. Why did that cross your mind then? I'm not reading that based on what you said.


Well he was not around much longer


Hmmm
Sorry I couldn't resist



Sure opened my eyes up though...he has to treat the ideology as if it is an illness that has to be cured.


No offense man but I think you're still squinting a little bit.


Is he damned to a life of torment because he just has no other choice?


You can help with this issue directly by stopping the mentality that is doing the torrmenting



So please don't come at me with ignroance, hate and all that. I dont claim that all gay people are sick


That's exactly what you've been saying


[edit on 023131p://11u47 by Lucid Lunacy]



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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I always ask gay people I meet whether they have ever bene interested in the opposite sex. It is just a question I ask when I meet people. I guess it is a bit unfair. But from that he told me what he told me.

According to him his attraction was unwanted. According to his own testimony, he was ill. That is what I gather. If a man wants to become a woman, and it hurst hi to stay a man emotinally and mentally, then he is ill and needs to treat it, apparantley with surgery.

He claims he wanted to change his current condition, therefore he was sick/ill and needs treatment. Based on that assertion, I have to assume there are many others in the same disposition, and vice-versa like you said.

There is already a group which was pointed earlier that helps to treat people who feel this way. Thats the first time I heard about that group, but I think it shows legitamacy to the fact that it can be deemed an error to the individuals who wish to have it corrected. I will stad by that.

If my previous statement appeasred to throw a blanket on the entire population, I apologize. I was just trying to type a long response in haste. I try not to spend alot of time writing a response, and sometimes it gets written without more consideration.

As far as compassion, I had plenty of that for him. I love girls, and used to not have much luck with them when I was younger. I wanted to do anything I could to make sure this fella was able to enjoy the great things of a female partner.

He was my friend at work. Frankly I dont hold on to friends for too long, especially at the workplace. I am under no illusions of the nature of the world. People move on with their lives, get new careers, move to new places, find other friends. I am not going to try and keep up with everyone I meet in life, especially when they move on with their lives. I dont really care about details of his different thoughts that he had about other men. Those kinds of things are not what I as a straight man care to imagine in my head.



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 11:59 AM
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reply to post by DYepes
 


I think you miss the point of WHY they don't want to be gay . Do you think if there lifestyle was embraced like ours is that they would feel the shame they do ?
In my opinion if they were not told it was "wrong and immoral" they probably would never think 2x about it .

I mean i suppose its possible . But then you would have to claim there "addicted" to being gay . as the only way i can relate what your saying is to smoking . I don't want to smoke but i do anyway. ..
[EDIT]
[Sorry i see this was touched on above]



[edit on 11-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by Christian Voice
There goes the name calling again. Stop calling people ignorant and bigots.



As soon as you stop calling homosexuals sinful.



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 12:02 PM
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reply to post by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
 


It's not "shame" that they feel, it's hurt. They have to take it on the chin from bigotted individuals.



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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Originally posted by Christian Voice



This piece of work explains why there are not many references to homosexuality in the Bible. It might surprise you.


God destroyed Sodom and Gomora because of their perversions, specificly homosexuality.


Actually the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah had nothing to do with homosexuality. It had to do with rape. And more specifically how we treat strangers to our culture.

You really need to go back and study the history of which you speak. If you had ever been to seminary you would realize this. You can't understand the Bible by simply going to Church.

[edit on 11-3-2008 by Quazga]



posted on Mar, 11 2008 @ 12:05 PM
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reply to post by intrepid
 


Yeah i guess that would be the word. Of course in this case i meant forceful shame . Not there own shame . But the shame of those around them . Believe me alot of people force there shame on you when there ashamed of you .

That make any sense?



posted on Mar, 12 2008 @ 10:34 AM
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As soon as you stop calling homosexuals sinful.


I am not calling them sinfull.God is in his word that is the Bible. I am pointing out what God has to say about it. I have tried to address the few on here that are misguided into thinking that Jesus didn't address this issue. He actually indirectly did:
Mark 10:6-9
“But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female. For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.’ So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate"

Notice he didn't say made them male and male. Pretty clear to me. This coupled with the verses in Romans and Leviticus and the numerous other passages dictating lustful behavior and fornication gives a pretty strong statement from the Bible.

Outside of the Bible, let's hit it from a scientific point.
I'll say it again,,,,
The actual purpose of sex is for REPRODUCTION. When a man has an orgasm, there is only one type he has. He releases semen and sperm. He releases SPERM ! That in itself says it is a natural reproductive thing. Given that, take that orgasm from the man and put it inside another man and see what happens. Nothing happens, except possibly an STD. It goes against the nature of it's intended purpose. True, there is sexual pleasure. If sex wasn't enjoyable, let's face it we would not do it.
I believe that Sally should be entitled to her thoughts and morals. I think she should continue to fight against the unnatural homosexual agenda that is continuously pushed in politics nowadays.



posted on Mar, 12 2008 @ 11:24 AM
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If a person has urges that are contrary to nature, that is one thing; acting out on those unnatural desires is another thing altogether.

I have gay friends as well as many of you other posters...and they are very nice people and good friends. Their personal choices ( acting out the impulses and desires they find themselves having ) is their business, not mine, and I never talk about such issues with them. None of my business.

But I do believe that a person can have ideas and tendencies and lusts that do not overwhelm their ability to refuse to participate, and thus they do not act on their feelings.

In other words, until a person gives in to those desires and feelings and commits a homosexual act (s), they are not gay at all: The mind can harbor all kinds of thoughts, but people do not go around giving in to them and acting them out; for example, there have been many times that I have gotten so mad at someone in public or traffic that I would have loved to have simply grabbed them and pummled them for what they did...but as I do not want the consequences to fall on me, I do not act on my feelings and impulses, because I stop and consider the consequences of my actions and weigh the benefits versus the harms done.

If a person stays celibate, they are NOT gay ; when a person acts out on their impulses and desires, especially sexual ones, then they have accepted the label and are considered as a part of the subculture they are involving themselves with. How many teenagers and young people have had ' thoughts ' of gay sex or bi-sex? Probably a lot; thinking and imagining do NOT equal actually doing the deed, and most young people will reject the gay lifestyle out of hand long before they would ever actually give in to the desires and impulses and actually commit a homosexual act.

It takes giving in to the lusts of the flesh to make someone a homosexual; they identify with the culture and accept the premise that they are in fact gay and they are fine with that. But being gay does NOT mean just having thoughts and desires that run counter to nature....not until the person has given in to the desires that they take the label. Most people would never consider having sex with a member of the same sex....and those that do many times do so out of curiosity and a fleshly lust that overwhelms their natural tendencies...not as an expression of their true nature and desires.

There is a deep psychological component to the acceptance of a sexual identity switch as a permenent lifestyle choice....and it IS a choice: no one forces anyone to commit homosexual acts with anyone else: it is a choice that has far reaching consequences and until it is acted upon it is nothing but a thought or desire or lust being bandied about in the mind: When the person gives in to the desire and does the deeds, then one can be called gay, but not before. It is the acts, the sexual acts, that define the condition, and not the mere thoughts of a confused person.

Having said that, the people who would make life tougher for people who suffer from this identity issue are fools and not doing anyone any good: No one can be forced into straight behavior, and many do not want to behave in the ' normal ' fashion as it does not suit their desires and needs...or at least the needs that have been created in their minds. I am NOT anti-gay....I am just not going to accept that it is a normal part of life: it is not. It is an abberation, and one that is chosen.

Gays DO have a choice: keep it zipped and work out your issues or give in to the lust and desires and accept the fallacy that they were ' born ' like that. They were not. Gays are usually, although not always, the product of a home with an absent or weak father figure, and a strong and dominant mother figure. Confusion over love and the roles and the roles that adult caregivers play in the developement of a child often contribute to the confusion about sexual identity.

Other times, a youth will find that they are attracted to another male in one way or another, and confuse this with sexual attraction...and end up acting out either a submissive ( feminine ) role in their lives, or they take the aggressive role ( masculine ) as a part of their chosen lifestyle...rarely will gays be able to act out both roles in a relationship, thus insuring an imbalance in their lives that will remain as long as they assume those roles .

Bottom line: you are NOT gay as long as you are sexually inactive in that regard. Thoughts and lusts of the flesh do not determine what you are. Not until a person has given themselves up to the idea that they are that way do they deserve the label. Homosexuality is not a thought process, it is the physical acts of sexual stimulation that confirm the depth of the issue to an individual and make him or her ' gay ' in their own minds as well as others.There are no ' virgin ' gays: Crossing the line from fantasy to reality often is the impetus for a person to accept the logic that he is ' gay '...until then he is just another confused person seeking stability and identity.

For one man to commit analingus on another and call it ' love ' is surely the most twisted rendering of the word ever seen....it is far from love...it is lust and a capitulation to a troubled past made manifest in the actions of the people so afflicted. Harrassing them and bothering them does no good; compassion and understanding will get more respect from those person so involved than any other means. Hate: NO!!! Acceptance as a normal part of life? NO!! The truth is far more simple and obvious than all the nonsense being spewed about the issue: Choice means taking care to not do those things in life that are not conducive to a better life and a more stable life....and doing those things that tend to work for the betterment of the person.



posted on Mar, 12 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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This is pretty disgusting- but hey, it is the bible belt. Here is a little humor expressing what Oklahoma celebrities would look like. I thought this was pretty darn funny:

www.wintrest.com...



posted on Mar, 12 2008 @ 11:35 AM
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Originally posted by Christian Voice



As soon as you stop calling homosexuals sinful.


I am not calling them sinfull.God is in his word that is the Bible. I am pointing out what God has to say about it.



Well then we will continue to point out that Society, in it's word that is our culture states that your position is bigotry. So stop asking that people don't call you a bigot when you are acting in accordance with bigotry.

As long as you are supporting what you believe God says about homosexuals, then you are an accomplice to it. You can not hide and say "Oh that's not me saying it.. it's God"


Once again, you can't justify bigotry with fairy tales.



posted on Mar, 12 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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Originally posted by eyewitness86
If a person has urges that are contrary to nature, that is one thing; acting out on those unnatural desires is another thing altogether.




Who said that homosexual urges were contrary to nature? Oh yeah, Thomas Aquinas... a priest. Yep there is a non-biased opinion. (sarcasm)

Seriously, don't you realize that to the homosexual, heterosexual desires appear contrary to nature? I can't believe you would base your entire rant on an assumption that somehow homosexuality is unnatural.



[edit on 12-3-2008 by Quazga]







 
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