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Things that should be discontinued ASAP

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posted on Mar, 7 2008 @ 11:53 PM
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It's funny (not really) how in this PO-CO society there are to be found some glaring omissions that paint a strange picture of the ideological caretakers of this world. Here's one that has been bothering me since... I don't even remember anymore:


Separate chess tournaments for males and females.

Can you believe it?
In this day and age – not to mention all the Po-Co crap – there is, for all to see, a highly visible and respectable form of competitive entertainment that unabashedly feeds the impression that females are, well... let's not beat around the bush - stupider than men.

I am sure there are those who wil come up with all sorts of »scientific« explanations for it – such as »different« types of intelligence based on sex/gender (which is also crap, BTW – unless there is something seriously »wrong« with all those countless »exceptions« who do not corroborate the »findings«).

But that is BS, of course, because the fact is tournaments have been divided by sex long before any such tests were a glimmer in some white-coat's eye.

I know a person – a male – who is a very good chess player, and he is also befuddled by it.

Not so most of the others, it seems.

OR, and this, to me, is actually the worst scenario: it's all about inertia, gregarious non-thinking, a collective blind-spot, apparently missed amidst all the hand-waving and coughing around every single smoker...


So... what are your pet "omissions"?




N.B.
I don't seem to be able to find an appropriate forum for this. Based on similar topics I wanted to post it in Education & Media (although a general SOCIETY forum would've been better) - but whatever I do, I end up in the "conspiracy" group instead. So, let me just state quite clearly that I do NOT believe "segregated" chess tournaments to be a conspiracy - unless you count the world-wide domination by sleepy minds a "conspiracy"...










[edit on 7-3-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Mar, 9 2008 @ 06:20 PM
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reply to post by Vanitas
 



None whatsoever, eh?
My, what a tolerant crowd...


OK, I'll serve another one, that has also been bothering me since... hm, Euro 2000, I think:

In dubious situations during football (soccer) matches, the final decision (about penalties and such) should be based on the evidence of the replay footage - not on the referee's personal opinion, which is based on his fallible eyesight (it's common knowledge that most referees are in dire need of thick glasses), not to mention other, possibly less venerable factors of influence.

(I bet you didn't see this one coming...?
)



posted on Mar, 9 2008 @ 06:49 PM
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First , i am glad that in our shiny world only these two issues should be discontinued ASAP, all the other problems can wait ....

As for football - hey, it is a random game. Referee adds to that.
Also , it can help this forum , as conspiracies can be suspected. Not only the logical one (bets and BIG money),but also all the adrenalin released by viewers as referee makes an error can cause even larger addiction to that particular sport.

Chess issue...hmmmm , if sides involved are content with the situation, i am not going to burn FIDE's offices. I think that even the smallest sign of discontent by beautiful and smarter part of humanity would have resulted in mutual competition.
Now , the real question is :
What is the hidden purpose of this post? That's a conspiracy....



posted on Mar, 9 2008 @ 07:00 PM
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reply to post by Vanitas
 





In dubious situations during football (soccer) matches, the final decision (about penalties and such) should be based on the evidence of the replay footage - not on the referee's personal opinion, which is based on his fallible eyesight (it's common knowledge that most referees are in dire need of thick glasses), not to mention other, possibly less venerable factors of influence.


Nah, here's what we would do in the United States:

1.) We would determine why Europeans call it football, and then in parentheses, indicate soccer. A statement of fact would then be issued.

2.) Next, we would subpoena the alleged offender of the penalty, the refs, and all of the fans, and have a trial by jury.

3.) Each side would have their own attorneys. I would suggest someone like Robert Shapiro. Heck, if he could get OJ off a murder charge, he should be able to help the soccer player.

4.) Each side would be allowed to call all 100,000 witnesses, and question them as much as they like.

5.) The jury would then deliberate, and hopefully return a verdict.

6.) Each side would be able to appeal the verdict, all the way up the the International Soccer Supreme Court.

7.) Once the final decision has been rendered, the game can continue.

Now that's BEING FAIR.

Cheerio!



posted on Mar, 9 2008 @ 07:02 PM
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I think that even the smallest sign of discontent by beautiful and smarter part of humanity would have resulted in mutual competition.


And what do you think THIS is?!




Now , the real question is :
What is the hidden purpose of this post? That's a conspiracy....




Well, that's one thing that the smart and the beautiful are good at...
In fact, that's what chess is all about.





[edit on 9-3-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Mar, 9 2008 @ 07:14 PM
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If the referee decides there hasn't been a penalty, then who decides the replay footage needs looked at in the first place?

Would you be in favor of a system similar to the NFL where managers would have the chance to dispute one, or maybe two, suspect calls (or non-calls) per game?



posted on Mar, 9 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by Vanitas
 

I consider this as letting out the steam.
This is what "signs of discontent" should look like:
Step 1:
Writing a letter with signatures of famous chess players/politicians/money bags (preferably both genders) to Fide or rival organizations.

Step 2:
Recruiting to the cause some journalist who made a career on feminism issues. Using 8 of march as a D-day.

Step 3:
Organizing a tournament with famous players , both genders.

Step 4: Taking over the worl.... nope, wrong thread.

Real step 4:
Revenging the honor of human race: Female chess player wins tournament with AAI (almost artificial intelligence - example: Deep Blue plus x advisers).

There. Easy 4 steps-plan to show slightest sign of discontent.



posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 12:24 AM
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Vanitas,


Separate chess tournaments for males and females.

Can you believe it?
In this day and age – not to mention all the Po-Co crap – there is, for all to see, a highly visible and respectable form of competitive entertainment that unabashedly feeds the impression that females are, well... let's not beat around the bush - stupider than men.


Please tell me you went to public school and majored in emotional fulfillment?? Perhapsed I should say..DRAMA!!!

This is like an original thought right??

I agree with one of the posters..if this is one of the most important things going on in the world humanity has a real crisis on our hands. I think it was Zeroknowlege who implied this!!???

I am certain humanity is reaching critical mass over these deep concepts and injustices.

YOu most certainly put alot of deep and convoluted thought into the state of the world.

Thanks for enlightening us. We are surely inspired. We will try to do better in about 200 years. Some of us are just so stuck back in the 1700s in a time warp.

THank you for your contribution to important social issues.

Orangetom



posted on Mar, 10 2008 @ 01:05 PM
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I would say that chess is a game that requires very good spatial skills, among others. That gives men as a group an advantage over women, who as a group have better verbal skills.

It really didn't take standardized tests for people to know that men and women have different abilities. It is also true that some women have strong spatial skills and some men are more verbal than spatial.

I don't know why chess matches are segregated and until today, I didn't know that they were.

I do know this. Women aren't marching in the streets and burning their bras over the issue, so I would presume that women chess players are okay with the current arrangement.

Although, this is not on its surface an earth-shattering problem, the integration of women into formerly male bastions has been a social issue of great importance.

Over the last forty years, women have insisted in breaking down every male only institution in the western world, still they insist many times on reserving a few female only facilities and I'm not talking restrooms here.

One good example was in the news lately. It concerned women's only hours only for a gym at Harvard to accommodate Muslims.

For some this was big news, but at least one woman in the thread acknowledged that she had been going to a woman's only gym for a couple of years because she didn't like men looking at her.

Apparently, she's not alone because most major population centers have female only gyms.

I'm not against it, but it is an irony that even today, women are still trying to gain entry into the few remaining male only organizations that exist, while demanding women only facilities when it suits their interests.

www.medicinenet.com...

www.usatoday.com...

www.nytimes.com...

www.msnbc.msn.com...

nakedthoughts.wordpress.com...

/348nzv

/2vq5ov

/2u4fbp

/2u4xa9


[edit on 2008/3/13 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 13 2008 @ 08:40 PM
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reply to post by ProfEmeritus
 




(And I especially liked the Shapiro part... ; )



posted on Mar, 13 2008 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
I would say that chess is a game that requires very good spatial skills, among others that give men as a group an advantage over women, who as a group have better verbal skills.

It really didn't take standardized tests for people to know that men and women have different abilities. It is also true that some women have strong spatial skills and some men are more verbal than spatial.

I don't know why chess matches are segregated and until today, I didn't know that they were.

I do know this. Women aren't marching in the streets and burning their bras over the issue, so I would presume that women chess players are okay with the current arrangement.



The fact that you didn't know they were separate leads me to believe that, regardless of your interest in chess (or lack thereof), you simply didn't think there would be a reason for segregating the players by sex... Which is exactly my point.

And you didn't think so - I am assuming - because in reality, in daily life, there are no relevant differences between the sexes that would validate maintaining such an order of things (based on a decision from the olden days).

Chess is, of course, an individual sport. And individuals can vary greatly.

I am familiar, of course, with the studies about supposed differences (which really aren't that great in the first place - and, much more importantly, the degree of which varies greatly from individual to individual).

But I am also "familiar" with the simple fact that I can read maps - for example - better than most men I know.
(And I don't like asking for directions, either.
)

But of course it's not about a "scientific" angle, anyway. It's simple inertia: the worst reason of them all, if you ask me.

Which brings ms to female players protesting...

Oh please.

People aren't marching on the streets for things that would deserve far more than just "marching".
(Like poor referee decisions!
)

And the reality is that very many professional chess players (female players included) - at least from among those whom I know - are somewhat awkward beings when it comes to social issues. They don't seem to really care about many things outside the chessboard (and that's precisely because so many of tem are so highly individualistic).

It doesn't make this obsolete arrangement any less wrong and unnecessary.




[edit on 13-3-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Mar, 13 2008 @ 09:06 PM
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If the referee decides there hasn't been a penalty, then who decides the replay footage needs looked at in the first place?

Would you be in favor of a system similar to the NFL where managers would have the chance to dispute one, or maybe two, suspect calls (or non-calls) per game?




In reality (i.e. in the heat of the battlefield), the message that the tape should be reviewed would be intimated - possibly less than subtly - by the crowd...


But in principle - and you bring up a very good point here - I say the majority of the other judges would suffice.

And yes, I think a system such as you describe would be a good idea.
Better than what we have now, anyway.





[edit on 13-3-2008 by Vanitas]



posted on Mar, 13 2008 @ 10:08 PM
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reply to post by Vanitas
 


Maybe you're one of those women with strong spatial skills.

Not having an interest in chess and having not heard of any controversies regarding this issue, I endeavored to broaden the subject somewhat to make it fit more nicely into our Social Issues forum.

If this is just about chess, then it's probably not getting near the attention here that it would get in a forum dealing with sports or games.

If there is really no need for men and women to have separate competitions, then why not form a grassroots movement among chess players?

Maybe the men would prefer mixed competitions as much as you would.

I am currently making an effort to see if there is a consensus about this issue and I will post what I find.


[edit on 2008/3/13 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 12:30 AM
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I have consulted with a chess forum and have gotten some pretty good sounding responses.

You are welcome to read them for yourself and perhaps even register and engage in the discussion.

There will possibly be more responses and I will continue to find more difinitive information.

www.chessforums.org...

You might even find this conundrum to be of interest.

www.redhotpawn.com...

More:

www.angelfire.com...

[edit on 2008/3/14 by GradyPhilpott]



posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 03:48 AM
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Originally posted by Vanitas
So... what are your pet "omissions"?


There are no female interior linemen or wide receivers.

There are no female NBA centers.

There are no female MLB shortstops or first basemen.



posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 05:26 PM
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Vanitas,


The fact that you didn't know they were separate leads me to believe that, regardless of your interest in chess (or lack thereof), you simply didn't think there would be a reason for segregating the players by sex... Which is exactly my point.


I dont really care if women are segregated by sex or not. In chess or any other sport. For all that matter I dont have much intrest in sports at all. You will seldom find me watch sports of any kind..unless it is a fishing program as I like to fish and eat fish.


And you didn't think so - I am assuming - because in reality, in daily life, there are no relevant differences between the sexes that would validate maintaining such an order of things (based on a decision from the olden days).


I disagree here greatly. There are in fact very relevant differences between the sexes in motivations and behaviors which cause or dont cause market trends. Buisnesses take advantage of them often when they can identify them. This type of predictable behavior also determines social structure and the behaviors/motivatioins behind the sexes too.
These are the behaviors which surround us daily..not the behaviors of female chess players as a group or individuals.
I dont really care if chess players are segregated or not by sex. I have played very good female chess players as well as not so good. It is the same with men.
The reality in "daily life" between males and females is a very wide gulf and much wider than most will admit. To know and verify this all I have to do is ask some of the females I know to come over and "flashdance" me
through some of the problems I have here and the conversation just breaks right down. This represents a huge gulf in thinking and expectations/beliefs. A huge difference in religion if you like. Yet they would think nothing of calling me over to solve their problems of which they cannot afford or dont want to bear the expense or trouble. They would think this is entirely normal ..until I tell them differently.

This is a type of poker or chess if you like. What motivates people or does not motivate people. The gulf between motivations is quite large and will not be leveled out anytime soon unless all of us are brought to the poverty level in equality. This is for what I look in people when playing chess or poker with them. What they will value and what for they will jump or motivate.


Chess is, of course, an individual sport. And individuals can vary greatly.


I agree here but this does not define the broad statement attempted by you. Individuals do vary. This does not negate the general differences between the sexes as a whole. I know this just by walking into a department store and looking at the presentation of the products. The merchandizers are counting on these differences. I can see this also in any computer advertisement that comes in my e-mail or in the newspapers. They too are counting on the predicatability of these differences to sell us products.


But I am also "familiar" with the simple fact that I can read maps - for example - better than most men I know.
(And I don't like asking for directions, either.
)


This is nonsense..total nonsense. It is textbook of the femminist agenda...standard M1A propaganda. There are women who can read maps and men who can read maps. Men who cant...and women who cant and have no intrest in this knowlege of how to do this.
I can read a map too.

However I will admit one thing here. The caliber of men today is very low compared to in years past. We now have on hand a very femminized generation of men who have mostly computer and video game skills. Outside of this arena they are about useless and just as high maintenance as many women. This cannot be accidental but deliberate.

By the way...I think you are correct here ..it is simple inertia. But in a disfunctional way.


And the reality is that very many professional chess players (female players included) - at least from among those whom I know - are somewhat awkward beings when it comes to social issues. They don't seem to really care about many things outside the chessboard (and that's precisely because so many of tem are so highly individualistic).


agree again...this is one of the fingerprints of true individuality...they are not joiners per se...they dont respond well to causes....they are individuals. They are not big on sex differences...or any other differences..they just like to play chess...nothing wrong with this.


It doesn't make this obsolete arrangement any less wrong and unnecessary.


LOL LOL LOL...that is up to the chess players to solve for themselves. Personally I dont care one way or the other.

I just dont buy into the concept that the differences socially apply to the world as a whole or that the lack of difference in chess players is a template for the world. Such a concept does not make good nonsense to me.
In daily life there are huge differences in male/female value systems which determine what motivates us ...daily..moment by moment.

Thanks,
Orangetom




[edit on 14-3-2008 by orangetom1999]



posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 06:41 PM
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reply to post by orangetom1999
 



You do know this was meant to be a "lighthearted" thread, don't you...?

Oh, I definitely meant every word I said - but the tone was the one I usually reserve for my parody bits... ;-)

And I definitely agree that the "map-reading & not-direction-asking" part is total BS. I only wish somebody would tell that to all the PhDs that keep peddling their ludicrous study "findings" all over NGC and other supposedly reputable "scientific" channels...


More on some other points in the future.

Stay tuned!



posted on Mar, 14 2008 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by Vanitas


You do know this was meant to be a "lighthearted" thread, don't you...?

Oh, I definitely meant every word I said - but the tone was the one I usually reserve for my parody bits... ;-)


No I didnt know this and never thought so as there were to many long posts with links added to be lighthearted. That is the way I read it. However ..thanks for clueing me in.


['i]And I definitely agree that the "map-reading & not-direction-asking" part is total BS. I only wish somebody would tell that to all the PhDs that keep peddling their ludicrous study "findings" all over NGC and other supposedly reputable "scientific" channels...


You know I hear this kind of drivel by PhD's and think the same thing...BS or also called Bravo Serria....like politicians they are working the system and audience for grant moneys. Stick around there will be another Bravo Serria study released soon for grant moneys and or to get us to jump through the next hoop. They are a type of political parasite....creating problems for profit....sort of like a politician. The obvious solution to cure it is to give money to it.

Thanks,
Orangetom



posted on Mar, 15 2008 @ 06:45 PM
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Even though the OP has admitted that this was not to be considered a serious topic for discussion, there are some real Social Issues at work here.

On the site I visited to ask why tournaments are gender-segregated, most respondents reported that at the levels they play, tournaments are not gender-segregated and that among youngsters the girls are heavily represented, but as the the ages increase, female representation diminishes.

Here is a video that is about one of the great female chess players.


At 38 years old, Susan Polgar has reached heights that few women have ever equalled in the chess world. Despite the common assumption that ... all men’s brains are better at understanding spatial relationships, giving them an advantage in games such as chess, Susan went on to become the world’s first grandmaster.

Susan’s remarkable abilities have earned her the label of ‘genius’, but her psychologist father, László Polgar, believed that genius was “not born, but made”. Noting that even Mozart received tutelage from his father at a very early age, Polgar set about teaching chess to the five-year-old Susan after she happened upon a chess set in their home. “My father believed that the potential of children was not used optimally,” says Susan.

video.google.com...



Google Video Link


[edit on 2008/3/15 by GradyPhilpott]




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