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Columbine/many shooters

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posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 03:52 AM
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Hmm, amazing, witnesses at 9/11 are 100% accurate (as long as what they say is what the government says happened)

Witnesses at Columbine are just confused.

I wonder if people know this is a conspiracy site and
not a "please agree to everything you have been told" forum for FOXNews.




posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 06:30 AM
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Originally posted by Legalizer
Hmm, amazing, witnesses at 9/11 are 100% accurate (as long as what they say is what the government says happened)

Witnesses at Columbine are just confused.

I wonder if people know this is a conspiracy site and
not a "please agree to everything you have been told" forum for FOXNews.


You have voted Legalizer for the Way Above Top Secret award. You have two more votes this month.



posted on Apr, 8 2005 @ 07:10 AM
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Several members of the Trench Coat Mafia were found outside the school that day but determined not to be part of the incident, although they apparently were aware. (they described themselves as "splatter punks").

The quantity of explosives found and the fact that there were other people who knew and didn't tell anyone does seem to indicate that at the very least, the TCM worked together on planting explosives. This doesn't mean that all of them took part in the shooting though.

The number of people killed (If we assume that number to be correct, which seems almost certain) does not seem to indicate additional shooters. Actually considering that they basically had a shooting gallery in both the Cafeteria and Library while armed with Tec 9s and Shotguns, it's hard to explain how the killed so few people.

Last but not least, others shooters would explain Eric and Dylan committing suicide. I never could figure out why they would have killed themselves when the plan had been to move out and fight the cops, then try to hijack and kamikaze a jet in Denver.

There are reasons to believe either side. I think I probably will try to borrow that book from a library. Sounds like an interesting theory.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 02:28 AM
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There is a lot more to those 'Splatter Punks' that the media didn't mention. To wit:


1) Who are the SPs? They are Matt Nalty(7543), Matt Akard, and Jim Brunetti(7434). Early reports had one of the SPs being identified as "Matt Christianson" (instead of Matt Nalty, I believe). Neither Christianson(if there is such a person) nor Akard has an interview in the 11K(please correct me if I'm wrong).

2) Did they go to CHS and. if so, when? That's a good question. Nalty admits he used to live in the area eight years before, he is named on a list of H&K associates(9798 ) , and he had no trouble finding CHS or a place to park when he drove himself and his cohorts to the scene from Broomfield, across town. According to Mr. Chicota's interview(see below) "the tall splatter punk with bad teeth said he used to go to Columbine High School."
In addition, according to

--JCSO Schweitermann, the SPs were pointed out to him by students being evacuated from the school, saying they were either the suspects or friends of the suspects(8096).

And for what it's worth, CHS student
--Sarah Roasberry(4210) saw three 'subjects' in the main hall of CHS at 7:30am, wearing camoflage clothes. So just maybe they were familiar with CHS and CHS was familiar with them.


3) What is their claim to fame? Getting arrested on national TV, probably around 2pm. At least some early media accounts and many eyewitness statments had the shooters wearing black jackets and (especially) cami pants, exactly what the SPs were wearing. And according the

--Sheriff John Stone, "they heard it on the radio....well, it wasn't on the radio at that time" which, if true, means they lied to the cops about what they were doing there. No wonder he called them 'his best leads'. Their alibis are kind of shaky, they either rely on themselves or close family members-which is a pattern among many of the TCM.

Even if they didn't fire any weapons, it looks as though they may have had foreknowledge. According to onlooker

--Cork Chicota(7462), the three approached him in Clement Park and told him they had friends at CHS and wanted to help them. Mr. Chicota got the impression, after a few minutes, that the 'friends' they were referring to were the perpetrators, not the victims. One of them said the shooters were doing it to 'get even'. "Chicota advised Investigator Eaton that the three males told him that they communicate with their friends(the ones they came to help) often and knew that something bad was going to happen at Columbine High School....." "...they said they knew these guys(suspects) and knew this was going to happen because they talk to each other on the internet all the time. They also advised the suspects were very angry at students because of the way they treated them. (Chicota(18274))


Chicota(19307)
--Saw the SPs in Clement at noon.
If true, this would explain Sheriff Stone's remarks.

But was there more to it than even that?

--"Investigator Eaton(Duane Eaton, Arvada PD)* advised Nalty that he had received NUMEROUS(emphasis mine) tips that Nalty, Brunetti, and Akard were claiming to be members of the "trench coat mafia" and planning to cause the same type of incident which had occurred at Columbine High School at Pomona High School."(pg 7549)

*Interestingly, he was assigned this lead by an FBI man, not a JeffCo man.



Those are leads I'd like to see, that is the only reference to these 'tips' in the 11K(7543). Elsewhere(7434) it says the SPs have "numerous friends at Arvada Senior High and often socialize in the area of Arvada Senior High School", although they told Mr. Chicota they attended Wheat Ridge High School.

For whatever reason they were released fairly quickly, it seems.

--Matt Lohrenz(1505) says he saw them walking near the Public Library, "looking at the people and grinning."(he recognized one of them when they appeared on the Sally Jesse Raphael Show 10 days later)

--Johnathan McMaster(3721) says one of his friends(Tindall) saw them walk past his house talking on cell phones(one IDed as Redacted, oddly enough).

--Ken Greenwalt(748 ) is a security guard at the Swedish Medical Center. He saw the 3 SPs exit their vehicle. Columbine was already on the news at the time, and he sees them being arrested on TV(unfortunately he does not give a time). Later, he sees them re-enter vehicle and

"raise their fists in the air and wave them towards the school, as if they were happy about what happened."


And
--Nalty told officers that they had 'friends'(7544) or 'casual acquaintances' (7549) at CHS. Too bad they were never pressed to come up with actual names.


(9798 )
--Matt Nalty listed along with others on a list of TCMers described as 'associates' of H&K; list compiled 4-21-99.

(17327)
--"Akard was allegedly present outside the school(CHS) prior to the shooting."

(17328 )
--Matt Akard is a Pomona H.S. student--wears trenchcoat to school.

(17824)
--"West Metro Fire Investigator Dave Green advised Pomona High School students (Redacted) and (Redacted) arrested on 4-17-99 with explosive. Also within past month (Redacted) contacted in early am hours at Pomona High School in fatigues. Claimed to be on maneuvers....... There is no connection with this investigation."

Comment: Let's see now, who probably goes to Pomona H.S. and likes to wear fatigues? Oh yeah, it's the Splatter Punks!! One or more of them is arrested three days before the attack with bombs and then they show up outside Columbine on 4-20, and it's all just coincidence!!

[Note: Pomona HS was evacuated on 4-21 or 4-27 because of a phony bomb threat; no bombs found (Emergency Net News)]

(17864)
--According to an unnamed listiner of KOA radio, library witness Brian Anderson was interviewed and said the splatter punks were involved with the delivery of pipe bombs.


(FBI Report, 1666)
--"Christianson..... said he once lived across the street from Columbine."
(Matt Christianson I'Ded as Matt Nalty since his appearance on Sally Jesse Raphael Show)

(13394(seven notebooks))
Matt Nalty wrote in student's yearbook at Stanley Lake H.S. "death is coming for you."

(13447)
Parent (who worked at the John Elway auto dealership) of one of the Splatter Punks who was a '97 CHS grad was told by his son that "he had been invited to the school to witness something big by either Harris or Klebold." Parent later says it was all a big mistake, though he says son was TCM associate.

(13511) Paintball store employee in Englewood CO says H&K and 2-3 others came into his store 1-2 weeks before 4-20. Others were possibly the splatter punks seen in Clement Park.

(13626)
Matt Akard is "good with swords"(like a lot of the TCM, he shared a fascination with knives and swords). A Pomona HS student says Akard talked of "blowing up jocks and shooting 'em", and "how to make bombs."(Sept-Oct '98 ) . Akard kicked out of school.



posted on Apr, 11 2005 @ 07:09 AM
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Maybe I'm missing something here.... I've read this thread, and maybe I'm just blind, but why, if there are others involved, and if it can be proved, why aren't they in custody?

I don't see that there is anything to be gained in anyway by the FBI, or local police, by letting other bad guys run free on that particular incident...

Personal enlightenment would be good here ...



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:49 AM
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As near as I can figure out Columbine was a black-ops type covert operation. Bringing the other suspects to trial(they were all quickly arrested near the school on 4-20) would have risk blowing the cover. Almost certainly, these kids were being 'played' by adults behind the scenes. Probably using some kind of mind-control techniques. Like almost all of the recent infamous school shooting incidents(random-rage killings) there is no believeable motive for the shooter's actions.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by starviego]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:53 AM
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------------------------------------------------

According to the Final Report put out by the Sheriff's Department, Harris and Klebold died approximately at 12:08pm. Officially there were no more gunshots after this time with the exception of up to six to eight 'shock-lock' rounds fired from shotguns in order to breech locked doors.

But like the Energizer Bunny, this thing kept going, and going, and going....

Witnesses reported many more gunshots were fired after this time, far too many to be accounted for by the shock lock rounds alone. Its not necessary to read in detail the entire list, just peruse it to get a feel for the sheer magnitude of shots reported after H&K were allegedly dead. Naturally, when JeffCo bothered to address the issue, it implied this was just 'covering fire' and not worthy of further investigation. Clearly, the incident was not over at 12:08pm. One has to conclude other shooters were still active inside the school after this time.

To wit:



--12:11pm
Littleton Fire Departmant radio traffic log: "Shots still being fired."(EP 10-4)

--12:15pm
Around 12:15 Jen Smull hears gunfire outside of Mr. Peterson's science class. She recognized Dylan Klebold "attempting to get into the science class next door to her."(16399)

--12:16pm
"Suspect at front doors with a hostage" (From the timeline prepared by JCSO Valbert, pg25167)

--12:23pm
"more shots fired" (timeline, Dep Valbert, pg25167)

--12:30pm
Science hall witness Pam Karakusis hears
two to four gunshots(1979).

--12:30 -12:45pm
Science hall witness Elizabeth Schneider said the shots lasted until 12:30 or 12:45pm(2163).

--12:35 to12:39pm
A group of three Denver policemen fire into west entrance and north library door. Lt. Manwaring saw the sillouette of an 'aggressor' inside double doors and fired two rounds from an AR-15 at the 'veiled' person. Sgt. O'Shea saw a muzzle flash and said a suspect threw an Improvised Explosive Device(IED) at him from the north library door. He fired his 9mm at least three times into the door of the library. Capt. Vince DiManna felt 'a concussive heat' as he passed the library door. DPDO Depew, observing from a distance, said the officers were getting fired upon and saw debris coming of out of the west doors toward them(7996). George Gray fired 16-18 rounds of 'suppression' fire at the west doors, though he claims not to have seen any gunmen. (Pages 68-69, Governor's Commission Report)

--12:43pm
CHS Command Post Log reveals "A report of more shots fired on the north side of the school."(9640)

--12:45pm
DPDO Lietz, in phone contact with student Matt Depew downstairs, hears shooting, 20 minutes of silence, then more shooting. Heard gunshots over the phone from 11:20am to 12:45pm(2837).

--12:45pm
Accoding to Mr. DeAngelis, "...Harris and Klebold died at approximately 12:45pm"(of gunshots, presumably).(EP1-283)

--12:45 to 1pm
Science hall witnesses James Bisgard, Steve Broden, Elisha Encinas, Travis Meason, Melissa Phillips, and Johnathan Vandermark all hear gunshots for the first 30 to 60 minutes, then 30-45 minutes of silence, then more gunshots for 10-30 minutes.

--12:51pm
"Shots fired on south side/possibly friendly fire" (pg25167)

--1pm
Hiding in a cabinet, library witness Patricia Neilson says she hears a small, short burst of gunfire in the library. "She looked at her watch." (page 76 in the 11K)

--1pm
Teacher Marlene Nederman hiding in one of the closets off the kitchen, hears three to four shots upstairs(3891).

--1pm
Science hall witness Mike Rotole says he heard five or six shots from the library(1954).

--1:09pm
Local station KUSA, also broadcast on CNN, gets a live report from a "James"* inside the school who reports hearing gunshots about 1:09pm.

--1pm- 1:15pm
Matt Depew hiding in the kitchen storage room with others hears the suspects in the kitchen and cafeteria until about 1 to 1:15pm(2826) Richard Green, also in that room, heard gunfire until about 1pm(3196). Shannon Ryan said the last shots were fired from about 1 to 2pm(4268 ). Brandi Wiseman heard the gunmen shooting appliances in the kitchen at 12:30pm. "She looked at her watch."!!

--1:15pm
Peter Forsberg, from the language hallway, hears last shots after 1:15pm near the science rooms(5370).

--1:20pm
Kyle Hayes, science hall: "Over the next two hours(1120-1320), he heard numerous gunshots and explosions which he believed were coming from inside the building."(3280)

--1:25pm
"James" sees gunmen in hall, both wearing black masks, as reported on local TV station KUSA.

--About 1:30pm
Student Mark Opfer, hiding in the foreign language hall, says he heard the last gunshots and explosions about 1:30pm(1063).

--About 1:30pm
Kitchen worker Laverne Helms: "Helms still thought she heard shots until about 10 minutes before she was rescued by the SWAT team (at about 1:40pm)(3297).

--About 1:30pm
Librarian Lois Kean, hiding in RNN sound booth, says "Last shots heard around 1:30hours."(22537)

--1:30pm
Kent Foncannon, rescued by SWAT around 1:30pm. "Foncannon believed that he heard shots during this time"(2999).

--1:30pm
"A man approached CP with cellular phone in contact with son in school, and could hear the suspects firing their weapons."(9644)

--1:35pm
Jen Smull, in one of the science rooms, heard a loud boom around 1:35pm(2185).

--1:50pm
Unnamed janitor hiding in the kitchen freezer: "He recalled looking at his watch at 1:50pm and around that time recalls hearing shooting."(page 66 of FBI report)

--2pm
Jonathan Ballard in the science hall heard gunfire until 2pm(1765).

--2pm
Father of student in contact with his son in the "band room or music area" via cell phone can hear gunshots in the background. DeAngelis tells him its probably SWAT. (EP 1-283)

--2pm
Patricia Neilson hiding in the library's kitchen area, says she still heard 'sporadic explosions'(of bombs, presumably) after 2pm(080).

--2:30pm
Amy Terry heard no more gunshots after 2:30pm(2207)..

--2:36pm
DPD dispatch log says "Suspect has been looking out windows near fire truck on west side."(9220)

--3pm
Jacquelyn Baker in Sci 7: "Did hear somebody say 'You will not hurt those kids'(man's voice)"(25053) This sounds like a confrontation with remaining suspects.

--3:30pm
"Flurry" of shots reported from the gym area.(I'm still looking for the source)

--3:42pm
Handwritten note reads "Student in gym just shot 5 minutes ago."(9160)

--3:45pm
"As late as 3:45, news crews report shots can be heard inside the school." Columbia Journalism Review, May '99

--3:50pm
Science hall witness Sarah Olejniczak hears two gunshots, followed by the entry of SWAT 15 minutes later.(2078 )


--------------------------------------
*Some contend that "James" was a hoax--someone outside of the school who phoned the local TV station as a stunt. Yet the principle himself may have corraborated his existence: "Frank DeAngelis was also aware there was a student located in the vocal music office who was using a cell phone to contact people on the outside." (5680) This student reported he was still hearing gunshots sometime between 1300 and 1330 hours. How would DeAngelis know this, unless the kid was talking to the media?? Sounds like "James" to me.







"Let the Truth be out, and let the chips fall where they may"



[edit on 12-4-2005 by starviego]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 02:37 AM
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Ok, heres my $.02 worth.

First of all. It there is indeed a "conspiracy" then what is it? Ask yourself, why. Who would gain from this. Who would risk getting caught and having the lid blown off. What could possibly be that important. What is it that the "shadow operatives" couldnt gain from any other means, so they had to shoot up a high school? I'm at a loss.

Secondly, you can post quotes all day, but show me video. Any idiot can write anything they want and post on the net as gospel truth, but it doesnt make it so. Show me a vidoe of one Columbine survivor who shares your views. If there were really more shooters and bombers, dont you think that the outcry of the students and faculty would be huge? Dont you think that some media publication, somewhere would pick that story up?

Now this is just my opinion, but I also dont think that theres a 9/11 conspiricy either. Or at least, the REAL conspiricy is never discussed. Maybe I'll start a thread on that.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:10 AM
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When Australia started to discuss tightening gun laws, not long after we had 'the port Arthur Massacre", well this columbine is in little league compared to what one accurate gunman, near 40 kills, most one shot barely any injuries.

Next thing, the press and gov uses the massacre to push through new gun laws. Tasmania was previously the most lax state in gun laws...

Conspiracy....setup...shock the public into agreeing with new gun legislation.....peoples agree and hand in all their weapons like docile lambs to the slaughter........

Shock therapy.........conspiracy.....we believe the official line......not


Just after noon on 28th April 1996, an unknown marksman opened fire on diners in the Broad Arrow Cafe at Port Arthur in Australia. In less than 20 minutes at this and five other crime scenes, the marksman killed 35, injured 22, and crippled two cars with only 64 shots. Nineteen of the first twenty dead in the Broad Arrow Cafe died from single shots to the head, all fired by the unknown marksman from his right hip. This staggering display of marksman- ship was blamed on left-handed and intellectually impaired Martin Bryant, who had no shooting experience, or military training of any kind. From the time of his arrest, remand prisoner Martin Bryant was illegally held in strict solitary confinement and denied access to media of any kind until his police interrogation on 4th July 1996. When he refused to admit to the Port Arthur Massacre at interrogation, he was once more placed back in illegal solitary confinement. Eventually in desperation during November 1996, Martin Bryant pleaded "guilty" 72 times, thereby allowing the authorities to avoid a humiliating trial at which they could present no hard evidence of guilt. Intellectually impaired Martin Bryant was convicted by a hysterical media pack, then forced to plead guilty by prison officials illegally enforcing solitary confinement.

home.overflow.net.au...

So yeah....I believe the author of this thread when he stands here and yells.....wake up everyone...what is going on...........................

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Mayet]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 07:22 AM
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So, we're saying that the Columbine debacle was a vehicle to further the cause of gun control? Actually, it sounds a little too confused to be much of a statement on that issue.

I'm not denying that there may have been further perps, or that there is a cover up, I'm just not thinking that it worked as planned, if, indeed, it happened as you all are saying. It didn't, in the end, do much to control fire arms.

Further, aside from a few folks whose intense efforts have brought this to thei front, no one else up to and including witnesses has spoken up. In a different country, it seems, something like this may be possible, but here in the US? I doubt it.

I know that sounds innocent or altruistic or perhaps even ignorant, but the only reason I could see for it not having an impact is that so many people are still busily working to uncover the 9/11 conspiracy.

I'm still kind of waiting for some "proof". However, please don't think me unsympathetic. Just want a bit of proof as opposed to nebulous "evidence".



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 01:09 PM
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Actually the burdon of proof should be on the authorities to prove that there was just the two shooters they have said there was. Had the shooters lived and leaded not guilty, then all these witness statements would have been bought up in a court of law.....and umm I don't think anyone would believe that there were just two shooters after reading all the material in this thread.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Mayet]

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Mayet]



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:32 PM
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Originally posted by Mayet
Actually the burdon of proof should be on the authorities to prove that there was just the two shooters they have said there was. Had the shooters lived and leaded not guilty, then all these witness statements would have been bought up in a court of law.....and umm I don't think anyone would believe that there were just two shooters after reading all the material in this thread.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Mayet]

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Mayet]


Actually, they proved it to the satisfaction of virtually everyone. I would imagine it's up to the conspiracy theorists to prove otherwise ... And to this moment... That has not happened.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 05:54 PM
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The only real cover-up at Columbine that has some authenticity to it is the theory that several students hiding in the library were actually killed by the authorities. Two teams of police who were sweeping the building fired at one another, thinking the other were suspects. Unfortunately, some kids in the library were caught in the cross-fire.



posted on Apr, 12 2005 @ 06:45 PM
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Here's the problem with eyewitnesses: They're not reliable.

Take this illustration:
Let's say 50% of the witnesses saw 2 shooters and 50% saw 3 or 4.
If there were 3 or 4 shooters, then that means everyone who only saw two shooters was incorrect. Why is it so difficult to believe one over the other?

Granted, in this case there is the factor of a large building where any one person wasn't able to see the whole event, which could account for someone only seeing two of maybe 3 or 4 shooters.


So apply it to a part of 9/11.
Say 50% of witnesses saw a plane hit the pentagon and 50% saw no plane.
If there was no plane, then that means everyone who DID see a plane was mistaken.

So why is it so easy to believe one and not the other?

Either way, half the witnesses were wrong.


(edit for grammar)

[edit on 12-4-2005 by quango]



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Spliff,

Columbine was often referred to as a "terrorist incident" in the early police reports. And so it was--an act of terror against the American people by their own government; one of many of late. In the aftermath numerous laws were passed at the state level across the country closing the "gun-show loophole". Schools have become more like minimum-security prisons, replete with uniformed armed guards, covert psychological testing, 'crisis drills' and 'lockdowns'. And of course when the people are always scared the gub'mint is always trying to pass repressive laws to 'protect' them.

Those eyewitness quotes I posted came from officially-released documents. An eyewitness is someone WHO WAS ACTUALLY THERE AND SAW WHAT HAPPENED.

As far as video is concerned, there was a grainy and choppy video of the cafeteria released(but only after 'enhancement' at the FBI lab). But where is the reported video from the library and admin areas, both of which were shot up? Where is the local TV video of the first hour of the incident? Some people watching TV that day say they saw a man in a foreign general's uniform, a trucked marked "NATO', and a figure in a black trenchcoat jumping over a fence. And while we're at it, where is the student video project made in 1997 that depicts black trenchcoated gunmen shooting up the halls of Columbine, produced by a student whose father would later be the lead FBI investigator on the case?


Mayet,

What little I have read of the Port Arthur massacre has convinced me it was another obvious set-up. The strange thing is how the public buys into it. Free Martin Bryant!!


Sigung,

My gut feeling is that Columbine was supposed to be one of several different school attacks on or around 4-20-99(see next post). An investigation would have revealed they were a bunch of satanists coordinating their attacks via the internet, which would have led to calls for gub'mint to "monitor" the web.

If about 100 eye and ear witnesses that attest to the presence of more than two shooters isn't proof enough, I don't know what is. (BTW, would it help if I told you Harris' and Klebold's fingerprints weren't found on any of their weapons(GSR test results not released))?

Also, conspiracy theorists do not have a trained investigative staff, cannot arrest, subpoena, indict, or prosecute anyone. Our job is to destroy the official story in the public mind, which I think is pretty easily done.


Templerum,

Two teams of police fired on each other? Do you have a source for that?


Quango,

Every day in police investigations and courtrooms around the globe witnesses are asked what they saw and heard. I think God knew what he was doing when he gave us eyes, ears, and a brain to remember. Multiple, corroborating witnesses clearly identified at least seven active participants in the crime.



posted on Apr, 15 2005 @ 03:48 PM
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------------------------

--Prior to 4-20-99
Chief of Police, McComb, Mississippi said a local trench coater--"carbon copy of Harris and Klebold"--"was doing planning"(of a school shooting?) Chief said the youth was in custody. "It is believed by the chief that there many be some connection."(21111)


-------------------------

--4-17-99
"West Metro Fire Investigator Dave Green advised Pomona High School students (Redacted) and (Redacted) arrested on April 17, 1999 with explosives. Also within past month (Redacted) contacted in early AM hours at Pomona High School in fatigues. Claimed to be on maneuvers..... There is no connection with this investigation."(17824)

Note: the "splatter punks", those three guys in black jackets and camo pants seen on national TV being arrested in Clement Park(next to CHS) were initially accused of a planned attack on Pomona High School(same school district as CHS) "based on numerous tips the police received". A 'phony" bomb threat would cause Pomona HS to be evacuated about a week later.


-------------------------

--4-19-99
There was a probable planned attack with many similarities to Columbine in far-off Evans High School in Georgia. The Columbia County Seriff's Department in Appling, Georgia questioned two students(Michael Buckner, 15, and an unk youth) on April 19, 1999(the day before Columbine) regarding death threats they reportedly had made at Evans High. Police seized guns at both boys homes as well as computers, and "Excalibur and Samurai-type swords". They both were believed to practice some type of witchcraft, and they participated in LARP war games. They wore trench coats over their all-black outfits with combat boots. [Note that all of these characteristics were shared with the TCM in Colorado.]

The Georgia authorities said there was no connection to the events in Colorado, which was "contrary to many news reports fueled by rumor, that are currently circulating throughout the region." Early local media reports, however, said the two groups were in internet contact or were visiting the same web site.
[FBI Report on Columbine, pg 8]


----------------------

--4-19-99
Employee at Stein Elementary School(Littleton) got voice mail message on 4-19 that she saved for the cops:
"Yes, I'm one of the trench coat robbers, so you idiots and(sic) if you don't give up $10million we're going to kill everybody in the school. You have my warning."
The Stein Elementary Security Office says "It is believed to be young children."
(17977)


---------------------------

--7:30am on 4-20-99
Bomb found at Highlands Ranch High School(neighboring Douglas County)(7962)

"The sheriff's office also made two arrests in connection with a bomb hoax April 20 at Highlands Park Ranch School.

"Four days after the incident, the sheriff's office charged Ben A. Bennett, 18, and Jonathan Reich, 18, with the possession, use or removal of explosives or incendiary devices--a felony.

"One teen is a student at the high school and the other is a former classmate....

"As new of the shootings at Columbine High School began to spread, rumors began to circulate that the fake bomb was in fact legitimate.

"The bomb was not real" Deputy Kim Stuckenschneider of the sheriff's office said. "It just happened at the wrong time. That had absolutely no connection whatsoever with Columbine. It's just a rumor."
[Douglas County News Press, 4-22-99]

Cops said it was a "hoax".



==============

--11:15am on 4-20
Columbine massacre begins

==============



--At 1:30pm on 4-20
A gun with ammo is found in the trunk of a student's car at Kiowa High School(Denver metro area). The owner, 17, tried to run away. Cops also said he may have threatened others, and that he vowed revenge.
[DP.com 4-22, see "How tragedy unfolded"]


--------------------------

--8:50pm on 4-20
A theft of four handguns occurs from the Jumbo Sports Store in the town of Lone Tree in Douglas County using smash-and-grab techniques. Arrested later was 18yr old Joel David Freiboth, ex-CHS student at 7700 South Garrison Street and an unidentified 17yr old in the 5800 block of South Garland Way. Four handguns were recovered.

"...the suspects do live in the area and have ties to Columbine High School" according to the Douglas County Sheriff's spokesperson.

"No motive has been established, but one possibility is that they were arming themselves because they were scared and wanted to protect themselves.

"With Freiboth was a 14yr old boy, a student at Columbine who claimed to be a witness to the shooting, authorities said."
[DP.com(DenverPost online) for 4-22-99. Header: "Two CHS students arrested"]

Cops implied it was a "hoax".


-------------------------

--4-21
In Colorado Springs(70 miles south of Denver), one Shannon Waltz and three other teenagers dressed "as gothics in black trench coats and masks were charged with trespassing after a disturbance wedesday afternoon at Coronado High School." Another report had them armed with 'firecrackers'. Three were students at another high school and one was a dropout.
[DP.com for 4-22, see "Notes from somber days"]

Cops said it was a "hoax".


-------------------------

--4-21 Shutdown of Kennedy High(metro Denver)
Manager of 7/11 at South Wadsworth and Yukon has video of TCMers from Kennedy High wearing trenchcoats on 4-20-99. Other kids say there will be an incident at Kennedy High on 4-21-99.(19680)

"A 'potential link' to students responsible for the massacre at Columbine High School triggered the shutdown Wedesday(4-21) of Denver's Kennedy High School .... the boundaries of the two schools are adjacent.... However, they said it wasn't a bomb or bomb threat that prompted the school's closure, along with the closure of all ten Denver high schools....denver Lt. Frank Conner said Kennedy was closed primarily because of its proximity to Columbine."--Denver Post, 4-22-99

Kennedy High School student Aaron Ratliff's journal entry dated 2-22- titled "56 days to classified information". (56 days after 2-22 is 4-20-99) He said it referred to pot smoking.--(17854)

-A 15-year-old Kennedy High School freshman was arrested(5-14-99) for allegedly threatening to kill classmates and a teacher and blow up the Denver school.   The youth allegedly told two students about detailed plans to handcuff those on a hit list to desks and "blow their hands off or shoot them in the head," police said. "He also said he was going to go in the hallways and start shooting other students. He said it was going to be Columbine all over again."

---------------------

--4-22-99
Chesterfield, VA, VirginiaRichmond Times-Dispatch, 4/23/99
Two Manchester High School students were charged yesterday with
conspiracy offenses in an alleged scheme to manufacture explosive
devices and detonate them inside the 2,400-student school with the
intent "to kill more than one person." Chesterfield County Police said the... alleged bombing scheme at Manchester High School were not intended to copy the Colorado crimes, instead, the two teens charged were making plans to manufacture bombs long before the Littleton massacre.


--------------------

4-22-99
R.E. Lee High School, Staunton, Virginia, Richmond Times-Dispatch of 4/24/99
Police arrested a 14-year-old high school student Thursday on a bomb-
making charge after a tipster alerted them to an apparent parallel
with the deadly Colorado school shooting. Prompted by news reports
of the Littleton, Colo., massacre, someone in the Staunton area directed authorities to a Web page the local teen allegedly had set up, the city prosecutor said. He was arrested after a home search turned up a pipe bomb and a floor plan for the school.
[Although the arrest occured on 4-22, the fact that the suspect had a website setup may indicate it was created before 4-20. And what was the "apparent parallel" with Columbine?]


-------------------------------------

--4/24/99
Wimberly, TX Austin (TX) American-Statesman,
Five juveniles were arrested Friday(4-23-99) on charges of planning an attack on Danforth Junior High School in Wimberley. The five 14-year-old boys had planned the assault well before Tuesday's massacre that left 15 dead at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., Hays County Sheriff Don Montague said. "Based on the statements given, it is clear that these young men were serious about targeting fellow students and teachers," Montague said of the alleged plot that was similar to the Colorado high school rampage.
--In addition to the bomb parts, deputies and agents from the U.S. Bureau
of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms found how-to instructions
downloaded from the Internet, officials said.


--------------------------

--4-25-99
"Two 16-year old males were arrested Thursday(4-22-99) for making bomb threats to Douglas County High School(on 4-21) in Castle Rock(Colorado), according to county officials. They claimed to be members of the Trench Coat Mafia, officials said."(Denver Post, 4-25-99 and FBI-1619)

"Someone called the school about 11am Wedesday and stated: "This is the Trench Coat Mafia and there is a bomb in the building; detonation time three minutes." Investigators got tips from numerous parents and students implicating two boys, a student and a former student, Stuckenschneider said. They were charged Thursday with making false reports of explosives and conspiracy, which are both felonies,...."

"The reason we're pushing so hard for felony coviction on this is so we won't get so many hoaxes," Stuckenschneider said."(Denver Post 4-23-99 and FBI-1619)

Cops think it was a "hoax".

----------------------

--4-27-99(or before)
"Student found with pipe bomb at Dakota Ridge High School"(18665). Same student arrested a couple of weeks later.

Also,
--Shane Neuhouse "provided information on (Redacted's) criminal activity and (his)plans to attack Englewood High School(metro Denver)."(21154)


=================
From the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office Final Report-"Findings of the Threats Team"-we read

"IMMEDIATELY after the shooting on April 20, the command post received NUMEROUS reports of additional attacks that were to occur at other schools in the metro area as well as schools outside the state."(emphasis mine)

The most suspicious thing about all these incidents is the total lack of media attention given to them.

Based upon the sheer number of these incidents happening on or very near to 4-20, I'd have to say there is a probable connection--and that what was being planned was far more horrific than what actually happened.






[edit on 15-4-2005 by starviego]

[edit on 15-4-2005 by starviego]



posted on Apr, 16 2005 @ 02:06 AM
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Originally posted by sigung86

Originally posted by Mayet
Actually the burdon of proof should be on the authorities to prove that there was just the two shooters they have said there was. Had the shooters lived and leaded not guilty, then all these witness statements would have been bought up in a court of law.....and umm I don't think anyone would believe that there were just two shooters after reading all the material in this thread.

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Mayet]

[edit on 12-4-2005 by Mayet]


Actually, they proved it to the satisfaction of virtually everyone. I would imagine it's up to the conspiracy theorists to prove otherwise ... And to this moment... That has not happened.



Its that "virtually" you used that let your whole argument down......so they have proved it to the satisfaction of who?



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 01:59 PM
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McDuffee's Version

Trench Coat Mafia associate Pat McDuffee was interviewed the evening of 4-20. Beginning on page 10786 of the 11K there is a list of redacted names and a short synopsis of his version of their involvement in the events of that day. On pages 10784 to 10785 there is an unredacted list of 'subjects'. By matching the two in the order they were listed we come up with the following:

(Redacted)(Dutro): Helped with the planning of the attack. Uses drugs like meth. Drives a white Toyota car or minivan.

Klebold(Klebold): At school with a handgun.

(Redacted)(Stair): Was at school with gun by library outside stairs. Helped plan the attack. Drinks and smokes dope. Has many different types of guns, sweep guns, shotguns.

(Redacted)(Phillips): Helped build the bombs, tested them at his house. Drives a '94 blue Honda Accord. Dope smoker most of the time.

(Redacted)(Beachum): Helped build the bombs and tested them with Phillips. Was part of the planning of the attack.

("Redacted")("Eric" LNU): Part of the planning of the attack. Stored most of the weapons. He transported most of the stuff to the school for the attack. Was at school outside during the attack. Drives a WHITE FORD BRONCO parked in the lot.

Harris(Harris): Was inside of school during the attack and had many different types of guns. Had said "I will kill jocks and blow up a school."

(Redacted)(Morris): Was inside of school during the attack. Helped plan it. Wrote letters and made videos about violence.

(Redacted)(Ault): Was part of the planning for the attack. Likes guns and violent movies.

(Redacted)(Perry): Was at the school with an automatic gun downstairs by a door shooting outside. Helped with the planning of the attack.



He also told IOs there were up to four students at both Chatfield High and Bear Creek High who were "part of the group"(and thereby implying foreknowledge on their part).

In a final interview a week later he backpedals furiously from his initial IDs.

This interview is important in that someone on the inside confirms what many eyewitnesses saw--namely the involvement of many other active participants, and hence further destroy the official version of what happened.

------------------------



"Let the Truth be out, and let the chips fall where they may"



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 06:51 PM
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I had a criminal justice class in college that showed that almost ALL, nearly 100% of eyewitness accounts are wrong. To prove this the class instructor arranged a fake mugging to happen right in the middle of the class. No one in the class knew it was going to happen and it was being secretly videotaped. A person walked into the class with a knife yelling, he threatened the professor and then and took the professors purse off her desk and then ran from the room. The whole thing happened in less than 15 seconds, but there were nearly 50 student witnesses to the fake crime. The professor calmed everyone down and told us that it was a fake crime. She passed out a form to each student with a series of questions to be answered. The questions seemed very easy. Questions like, what skin color was the assailant(s)? How many assailant(s). How tall were the assailant(s). What gender was the assailant(s)? Describe the assailant(s) clothing. Etc.

There were 15 total questions. After everyone was finished the papers were graded. To every student’s surprise no one in the entire class, even me, answered all of the questions correctly. Students who just witnessed this fake crime happen messed up everything about this attacker that they just saw a few minutes earlier. Students said that the attacker wore a hat when he didn’t. Students said that the attacker had a gun instead of a knife. And (my point to this thread) was that there were students who said there was more than one attacker, which really blew me away. We watched the fake crime on video in class and reviewed what students wrote and the entire class *gasped* over and over during the viewing. I had to cringe at one point because the teacher brought up the fact that I put down that the attacker was wearing a pullover hooded sweatshirt but actually he was only wearing a gray t-shirt. I honestly could have sworn he was wearing a hooded shirt of some kind. There were even students that questioned if the video being shown was the real video because in their minds it did not happen like they were seeing. This experiment was both shocking and disturbing because most of our justice system cases are decided on eye-witness testimony, which I now considered to be almost worthless. In these types of pressure filled life or death situations nothing is as it appears.

I guess my point is that eye-witness testimony, even from many seemingly credible people, is not always as reliable as we may want it to be or believe that it is.


[edit on 11-6-2005 by zerotime]

[edit on 11-6-2005 by zerotime]



posted on Jun, 11 2005 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by starviego


Mayet,

What little I have read of the Port Arthur massacre has convinced me it was another obvious set-up. The strange thing is how the public buys into it. Free Martin Bryant!!


I second that motion. I don't want to take this discussion off topic so I am gonna make a thread abou the Port Arthur Massacre. I hope you don't mind Mayet because Search has provided no results.

As far as Columbine being a conspiracy; How can two kids plant 97 explosives in a school??? What kind of school doesn't notice something like that?



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