Columbine/many shooters

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posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 08:41 PM
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boulderdailycamera.com...
This is to much information for me alone. However, pp. 3,854 has an incredible item. "heard kids talking about two seperate groups of shooters, one speaking German(!), the other speaking English." As, well as numerous redactions of names and eyewitness accounts of up to 6 shooters and a driver. This may be old news to ATS but of all the things I see in here this is turning my stomach. What could possibly be the reason authorities are withholding autopsy and ballistics. And why, dear God, have kids died violent deaths since the event. Just some of the pages referenced by Russ Kick's article "Witness to a massacre: other participants in the columbine shooting" from "Everything You Know is Wrong" isbn #0-9713942-0-2 pp. 1262, 654, 653, 750, 3131, 3433, 4677, 2183-4, 2189-90, 2242, 2222, 4931, 2185.




posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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i think the kids spoke german and were into that whole german death metal and gothic music scene. and as for multiple names and some misinformation i think it was people just spazzing out from the chaos. plus, on all the school videotapes it only shows two kids.



posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 08:49 PM
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I thought they only had cameras in a few different parts of the school, like the cafeteria and library. Just places where there are alot of people.



posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 08:50 PM
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i dunno where they were. i just know that in the videos i have seen of it it was always the same two kids



posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 08:52 PM
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You are not convincing me. Did you even look up a single page number?



posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 11:31 PM
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in response to you question.....


no, no they didnt look up anything.

neither did i.

this was a completely empty and irrelevant post.





posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 11:32 PM
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trench coats have forever been gayed.



posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 11:35 PM
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i actually got in trouble for wearing trench coat at school....they said it could be concealing a weapon. i said, comeon, you think im that dumb? i wouldnt be stupid enough to pull the same stunt they pulled. at this point i got very suspicious glares and was taken down to the office nd searched......then i put my coat back on and left...right after i did a matrix move because im stereotypical and i suck



posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 11:37 PM
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I would've just punched you in the kiwis and said, sir please remove the gay jacket. there is no matrix neo.


btw, I don't buy the more shooters thing my 2 shekels.

[Edited on 19-2-2004 by Lysergic]



posted on Feb, 19 2004 @ 11:43 PM
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sorry to dissapoint you, i dont have any kiwis....

but it would be really great
if somebody took the scene where hes doing the crappy backbend in slow motion and then somebody walks up, looks at him suspended, and jsut kicked him straight in the nuts.



posted on Feb, 20 2004 @ 10:03 AM
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i thought this would garner more and more serious replies. Maybe you don't realize that when I say "redacted" that means that witness accounts were censored when they mentioned the name of a shooter that was not Dylan and Eric, and does anyone know of another kid named Craig(last name?) that killed his father that morning and then killed himself.



posted on Feb, 20 2004 @ 11:02 AM
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boulderdailycamera.com...

The authorities believe, from eyewitness accounts and evidence found, that there were only 2 gunmen. The above page talks about one witness and what he saw down the hallway. The witness said that one of the gunmen appeared to be overweight. The investigator explains this by noting that the shooter in question was wearing baggy clothes with the pockets filled. I can see how someone could look really hard and come up with a "more than 2 shooter" theory, but there are WAY more eyewitness accounts to support the presence of only 2.
In reading through some of them, I found that it did seem that the investigators do appear to fill in the story and explain to the witnesses what they saw, but how else do you make a teenager understand the events they experienced and dispel rumors and false stories?
The story of columbine was beginning to take on a life of it's own, dramatic stories of things that never happened fueled by imaginations running wild. If anyone remembers what was being said by students immediately after the incident, you'd know that kids that weren't even in school that day had a story to tell. Rumors were everywhere.
I believe that it was only the two, there were others who may have known about it, but only Klebold and Harris went into the school that day.

I assure you, as much as columbine is still in the news, with lawsuits and rumors still circulating, if there was even a hint of more people that the parents could hold accountable and sue, believe me on this one, they would have been all over them like white on rice. They have gone after everyone who could have been even remotely involved, right down to the guy who unknowingly sold one of the guns and the manufacturer of the guns used.


Peace,
BG



posted on Feb, 20 2004 @ 12:19 PM
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There are eyewitness accounts of three individuals seen at once, of a man "in his thirties", of a tall boy with acne, of shots fired hours after the two were supposedly dead and, admittedly, 97 explosives found in the school. Parents are upset and do want answers. However, with no other stories but this one I am left with no explanation but the simplest one. Only two shooters.



posted on Mar, 24 2005 @ 10:12 PM
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"We can't be that stupid to think it was just these two kids....two adults couldn't have done this."
-Christian LaPlante(father of CHS student Jennifer), quoted in Extra Daily News.com 4-23-99
----------------------------



How many shooters were there?



Channel 7 News at 12pm(noon) on 4-20, EP 21-244
"Reporter said that numerous witnesses he spoke to who were not named said they saw 3 gunmen."

Joe Marshall(5735)
Ramona Lee Madden says he observed 3 kids with guns.

ACSO Nelson(8810)
"... a list of 3 names that the 12 witnesses ID'd from a yearbook were turned over to ACSO investigators to foreward."

Jon Curtis, janitor(2286)
Saw 2 to 4 attackers, describes 3 of them.

Eric Campbell(732)
Walked out of school at 11:20am on 4-20 and saw Harris in the parking lot with 2 or 3 other guys, wearing a white T-shirt and a backward baseball cap.

Matt Katzenmeier(5745)
Saw 4 subjects carrying bags in, according to Darlene Mesch.

Alicia Maes(22755)
Saw 4 people with trenchcoats and guns, according to Rachel Nelson. Not mentioned in Maes' 11k interview.

Trista Fogerty(23144)
"Trista said she believes, as do most other students, that there were more than 4 people involved in shooting."

Natalie Baker(2583)
Told her mother there were 2 other shooters besides H&K. (2+2=4)

Jennifer Tyndall(1226)
Sees 2 suspects, neither of which is H&K. (2+2=4)

Ryan Ezzie(2967)
Saw 4 people outside with hats on backwards. On 20612, he says he "...saw at least 4 parties dressed in black standing calmly when others were running."(by the school library)

Jordan Grimm(22432)
According to Jordan's aunt, he saw H&K and 2 others together ouside school just before the incident began. Not mentioned in Grimm's own 11k interview(5760).

DPD dispatch log(9219)
"Male called from Canada and was talking with female student at Columbine and she told him there are 4 suspects not 2 but no further information."

John Spahlinger(1176)
Clement Park maintenance worker, "a majority of the students Spahlinger helped informed him there had been a trench coat mafia gang shooting over at the high school and that there were 4 shooters involved." Follow-up interview says "Spahlinger stated he had no further info to report and that he did not know where someone got that he had(sic) witnessed 5 individuals exit a black vehicle while working in the park."

Camille Campbell(7446)
Denies having CHS friends who told her about 4 shooters, 2 of whom discarded their trenchcoats and fled into the crowd.

Thornton/NorthglennPD SWAT Team, EP 9-34
At 11:35pm on 4-20 the team enters CHS for another search. "We were advised that 2 suspects(shooters) might still be in the school." (2+2=4)

Littleton PO Mike Eyman(8670)
Advised that "there were possibly 4 suspects in the school."

Dustin Gorton(10743)
"He named 2 other individuals he believed to be involved as Nathan Dykeman, Chris Morris." (2+2=4)

(8894)
"Daphne Baca had listed 4 names of possible suspects. Those names included Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Chris Morris, and Robert Perry."

Kristen Schoenhoff(4321)
While being driven out of the senior lot, she hears fireworks outside. She turns around and sees 3 males at the top of the stairs. None of them are H&K. (3+2=5)

J. Adams(7422)
Construction worker near CHS; he refers to a black BMW and a small tan car drive down his cul-de-sac, followed five minutes later by the sound of bombs. A co-worker says the BMW was filled with 4 teenagers, the tan car which followed it had 2 people in it(7430).

Mr. Talocco(8876)
He says that the school roof repairman saw 3 people exit vehicle with H&K. Tan vehicle followed them into the lot. The repaiman(Clarke) denies it.

Dick Strange(1194)
"It was at approximately 11:45am(??) that Strange first observed 4 to 5 individuals, all dressed in black trench coats, standing alongside CHS in the vicinity of the gymnasium."

(UFN) Vassar(4691)
Sees 4-5 individuals at 11:15am dressed in black walk away from the school, all wearing trench coats, except one, who was wearing cami pants.

Seth Biggi(2475)
Was told by Courtney Shakowski she saw 4 to 5 TCMers enter cafeteria with a big, black duffel bag. Shakowski's interview itself(1157) only refers to 5 possible suspects in the parking lot.

Devon Adams(10614)
Names 3 (Redacted) names as being directly involved in the Columbine shooting--they are not H&K. (3+2=5)

Boulder PD SWAT Timeline(8245)
2130 hours: "2 suspects believed dead inside, 1 arrest, 1-2 other supects/associates."

Pat McDuffy(10786)
A member of the TCM names 5 people in the attack group. Says another 5 helped plan the attack and helped provide guns and bombs.

Barbara Karnkusis(7523)
At about 7:30am on 4-20 she saw a group of 5 to 6 people, dressed in black, standing at the corner of Pierce and the first street south of the school. One of them looked older, in his mid 20s with short blond hair. Two of them sitting on a large black backpack.

Nick Buhrer(2583)
Was told by Sean Graves in a hospital visit that he saw 5 or 6 people throwing 'devices' in the cafeteria.

Melissa Chavez(9023)
Met H&K and 4 other boys at the mall. They showed her a map of where they would bomb the school. (2+4=6)

Tim Kastle(3416)
Tells IOs of 5 suspects.

Rusty Schyler(4463)
According to Lacey Smith, he told her that he had seen 6 shooters.

Pam Wood(8902)
Got call at work in Pennys at South West Plaza from students trapped in school. One saw 6 trenchcoats and that all were shooting handguns.

Amy Terry(2207)
Was told by friend Elisha Encinias that she was in the commons when trench coaters(2 or more presumably) with masks on came in shooting. Running upstairs, she sees 4 people in trenchcoats coming in through the glass doors at the west end of the main hallway.(2+4=6)

Bryan Frye(806)
Told the IOs that while crawling past the admin office(where he had just heard gunshots), he saw 5 or 6 persons all dressed in black.

LFD Capt. Mike Gorman,. EP 1-335
"Capt. Gorman told me the only information was that there were 5 to 6 shooters from the Trench Coat Mafia."

JCSO Kevin Walker, EP 1-223
"Dep. Walker related the communications center advised there were approximately 6 gunmen, dressed in black."

JCSO Vincent DiManna, EP 1-363
At 11:35, JeffCo. Lt. Manwaring "advised him there were as many as 7 gunmen inside the cafeteria and commons area."

CBSNews.com, 4-19-2001
"They(the cops) believed that they really had 6 to 8 armed individuals inside there."

Joe Schallmoser, R-1 Security(17421)
Dakota Ridge High students Jordana Spaven and Val Halle "are friends of Eric Harris. They know that eight(8 ) individuals were involved and that there will be another incident."

Eric Campbell(732)
Says fellow student Jessica Cave(1820) says she saw 10 shooters at the school(Jessica herself was not interviewed).




Others:

Andrew Lowry(5246)
Said that "due to the volume of shots and explosions(in the first 20 minutes) he felt nobody would be left alive in the school."

John Cook(755) and Lisa Forgen(3005)
They see 2 shooters, and tell IOs that they could identify them if they had photos. Interview given days after 4-20; the implication is that they were not H&K. (2+2=4)

DPO Depew(7999)
"Depew stated he felt there were additional suspects hiding out in the outer perimeter communicating with the shooters on the hand-held radios."
------------------------
Others:
Betty Shoels(DP 6-24-00)
"...Duran was involved in a conspiracy.... Everyone in the world knows that conspirators were involved in the case. .... She claimed that law enforcement had not fully investigated the massacre....."





"Let the Truth be out, and let the chips fall where they may"




----------------------------------------
SIMALTANEOUS

What did the ear witnesses hear? Numerous students heard gunshots/explosions in different parts of the school simaltaneously. IOs generally ignored the implications of this: that two or more parties were attacking the school. Which of course probably meant more than two shooters, as H&K were officially together almost the entire time.
To wit


Sara Houy(380)
Heard bombs in cafeteria below, while shooters were inside library, exploding bombs.

Josh Lapp(480)
Heard gunfire in other parts of the school while attack on library is going on.

Holly Pinkham(1620)
Says friend Don Goin had his shoe shot off while in middle hall, while gunshots were going off in cafeteria.

Alex Babiner(1954)
"He thought the explosions were coming from the level he was on and from downstairs at the same time."

Doug Johnson(1947)
Heard gunfire and explosions coming from library and commons areas.

Drew Lagerborg(1999)
Ran west down south hallway, there was a gunman at end of that hallway. Ran to north hallway, he heard a shooter down that hallway as well.

Josh Brinkley(2528 )
Heard shots downstairs, then different shots upstairs(from two guns).

Jay Gallantine(3086)
Sees gunman by library then runs downstairs where he hears more gunshots "all this time hearing shots all around me and above me."

Matt Katzenmeier(3424)
Heard shots and explosions inside the school at the same time there are 2 suspects outside.

Dan Lab(3495)
Hears shots and explosions from library and cafeteria.

Jesse Maddox(3610)
Upon the entry of a gunman into the northwest entrance, he runs upstairs to the first landing, hears gunshots upstairs, then ran back down.

Danae Pederson(4043)
Hears simaltaneous shots in north and south hallways.

Brandi Wiseman(4751)
Caught in one of the rooms off the kitchen, hears gunshots, bombs and screaming coming from cafeteria and library.

Lindsay Wyant(4799)
Heard shots in cafeteria and library at same time.

Ashley Egeland(5255)
Fleeing from 2 gunmen in the upper main hallway, she hears shots coming from the commons.

Ashley Burner(6022)
Someone told her they were watching 2 dead suspects and could hear gunfire upstairs at the same time.

Evan Todd(8826)
Heard bombs in other parts of the building while H&K were in library.

Diwata Perez and Jessica Holliday(9923)
Heard gunshots elsewhere while shooters were in library.

Time(12-20-99)
"Students and teachers trapped in various parts of the school were flooding 911 dispatchers with calls reporting the shooters were, simaltaneously, inside the cafeteria, the library, and the front office."






"Let the Truth be out, and let the chips fall where they may"



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by Scat
in response to you question.....


no, no they didnt look up anything.

neither did i.

this was a completely empty and irrelevant post.




Hmm, seems kinda odd for a ATSN Writer to be so quick about it, looking at the above post, there seems to be more than enough merit and you were being kinda rude to guy. I think he was being serious and your comment was completely empty and irrelevant to this post.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:41 AM
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The news reported 6-18 shooters or something like that, on the actual live coverage.

It is a coverup.

No way 2 people can bring 97 explosive devices into a building, not to mention all of the one's that were detonated.



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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this just in....




Owner of clothing store discovers boxes of Black Overcoats missing the day before the shootings.. only remembers seeing a very bright light and waking up in his store...



2 Shooters.... not 97 explosives.....


ever heard of echos... something exploding in one part of the school and you'd hear it over and over again, throughout the school...



also, these are kids... who were in shock, I'll bet if they were interviewed today, they wouldn't even remember saying how many they had previously stated were doing the shooting on that day...




[edit on 25-3-2005 by elevatedone]



posted on Mar, 25 2005 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by elevatedone




also, these are kids... who were in shock, I'll bet if they were interviewed today, they wouldn't even remember saying how many they had previously stated were doing the shooting on that day...




[edit on 25-3-2005 by elevatedone]


I'll take that bet, we're talking high school age kids not pre school. I bet that most of them remember exactly what they said, did and witnessed that day.



posted on Mar, 26 2005 @ 01:28 PM
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52 eyewitnesses can't be wrong
There is a great deal of evidence that more were involved than just Harris or Klebold. Among the best evidence are eyewitnesses who saw and recognized other participants in the crime. The below lists contains most of those who saw and were able to name other attackers at Columbine, plus a few more whose descriptions of the shooter(s) cannot possibly be either Harris or Klebold.




The following eyewitnesses identified a 'Robert' or 'Robert Perry' as one of the attackers:


1) Cyrstal Archuleta(EP1-197)
"...she did see one person throw a pipe bomb. .....She told me at the time she thought it was Robert Perry."


2) Seth Dubois(EP21-125)
"...Seth told Katherine(Carlston) that Robert Perry was seen shooting a girl in the back while leaving the library."


3) Wade Allen Frank(EP1-91)
"Mr. Frank told me that he thought origonally one of the individuals(shooting) was someone by the name of Robert..." "He stated that the person was tall, approximately 6'3" and kind of ackward(sic) and gangly."


4) Bryan Frye(EP25-69)
"He stated that the person he had previously believed this shooter to be was Robert Perry. .....In a previous interview, after receiving his yearbook, he had told his father that he believed the shooter to be Robert Perry. He also stated that the gunman had bad acne."


5) Courtney Haulman(EP25-91)
"There was three guys. The guy I remember most was the main guy. He's over 6' tall and has long curly dark-colored hair. He was wearing a trench coat. His name is Robert Perry."


6) Lacey Hohn(EP1-186)
"...can you identify or descibe who was shooting? ....Ms. Hohn said that she does not believe it was Harris or Klebold. Ms. Hohn believes it was an individual named Robert."


7) Bijen Monty(EP1-110)
"I asked her if she saw the source of the shooting. She told me she saw who she thought, at the time, was Robert Perry with a gun hanging around his neck. She said she never actually saw him shoot the weapon.

"She asked me if I had any information in regards to Robert Perry. I informed her I did not."


8 ) Tessa Nelson(EP1-113)
"I asked her if she saw the source of the shots. She said she saw a male, who she thought was Robert Perry, wearing boots, dark jeans with dark hair, walking down the stairs outside the cafeteria. She said the male suspect pulled a gun and started shooting."


9) Katelyn Sue Place(EP21-285)
Kate said, "It was (Redacted). I'm almost positive of it. I remember looking him dead in the eye. He was in my debate class..... . ...Dylan kind of looked like Robert, but Dylan doesn't have the long face. Robert's teeth are messed up and he was smiling and I saw his teeth then. Kate said that she has since seen pictures of Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris, and she said, "It's not one of them."(Referring to the person she saw shooting out on the outside commons.)

"She remembers him shooting Ann Marie(Hochalter). .... Robert was just randomly shooting. ...Robert was still shooting. ....Kate said that Robert shot Ann Marie before he smiled at Kate. ....She looked and saw Jason(Autenrieth) trying to help Ann Marie, dragging her away from Robert, to the side."


10) Lacey Smith(4470)
"On the diagram she depicts (Redacted) as walking in through the doors, past where she was sitting, and going in about as far as they north end of the school store. It was at that time she heard the windows breaking and then realized she was hearing shots.

"....she did not have any trouble indentifying PERRY when he walked past her. I asked SMITH how sure she was that the person she saw and spoke with was (Redacted). I asked, "90 percent sure? 50 percent sure?" Her response was "100 percent sure." I then showed SMITH a photo lineup which included a picture of Dylan KLEBOLD, and asked her if the person who walked past her was in the lineup. She stated he was NOT in the lineup. .....As (Redacted) passed her and was near the commons area of the cafeteria, she then explained that (Redacted) pulled a weapon out from under his trench coat and started firing into the cafeteria.


11) Brenton Hooker(16397)
"....he turned around and observed an individual he thought was ROBERT PERRY(ex-student of Columbine High School) standing outside the door just to the north of the main entrance shooting a pistol in his direction...." ....HOOKER described the individual he thought was PERRY as 6'8" - 6'11" in height, very skinny, tight black pants, black trench coat..."


12) Tyler Chenoweth(1830)
"A student named Jen Smull saw through the (science classroom)door during the incident and said that the tall suspect had curly hair and was the student who came to a Halloween party as a warlock. He thought of Robert Perry based on that description."



The following eyewitnesses identified a (Redacted) as being the shooter, with the description fitting Perry's:

13) Tiffany Lien(968 )
"Lien stated she believed gunman number one was (Redacted).... ...Lien stated that she was approximately twenty to twenty-five feet away from gunman number one and looked at him face to face for approximately 25 seconds, frozen in her tracks." Tall male had long black trench coat, black jeans, dark brown hair. His hair was kind of long and had curls. He was skinny and his shoulders kind of hunched over. ...She also stated that the gunman had bad acne.


14) Kristen Long(20245)
"Long said suspect definitely had dark hair and a large nose, thought it might be (Redacted)."


15) Rusty Shyler(5464)
"The individual was very tall. ...Shyler saw his face partially and thought based upon his dress and size that it may have been (Redacted). He was a hundred percent sure it was (Redacted). He described (Redacted) as being 6'6" to 6'7" tall and having lots of zits."


16) Chris Thierren(1207)
Saw a tall shooter with acne, large nose, shoulder-length hair. "He stated that the picture he saw was of (Redacted) and he was 'pretty sure' he was the shooter he saw that morning at CHS."


17) Erin Walton(4139)
"Erin Walton said she knew one of the shooters, and that he not one of (the) two Eric and Dylan. ...he was a senior named (Redacted). and he was very tall, had bad acne scars on his cheeks.... "



The following witnesses did not identify the shooter, but the descriptions fits Perry's:


18 ) Pat Caruso(2683 and EP17-13)
"Thought the suspect looked like a trench coat student he has seen before who had bad acne, ....curly long dark brown hair, wearing black trenchcoat.... and a tie-dyed shirt, pink or yellow."


19) Justin Norman(3929)
"Upon the hill we saw a tall guy with blond hair, acne, big nose and buck teeth.... the guy had a handgun and he shot one kid in the ankle and another who didn't move." (Note: Accoding to Norman in a later interview, this was Klebold, though the description is more indicative of Perry.)


20) Joanathan Ballard(1765)
"One of the (trenchcoated)kids(who was walking the halls during the shooting-implied to be a shooter) was about 6'5" or 6'6",.... I later saw on channel 4 or 9 news, I'm almost positive, that same man or teen, on t.v., acting all worried." (Note: this can't be Harris or Klebold, as they died in the shooting.)



Others:


21) Nathan Anema(2359)
"....Anema identified (Redacted) as possibly being the person he saw throw a pipe bomb during the shooting at Columbine High School on 4-20-99. ...Anema stated that he initially thought the person that he saw throwing the pipe bomb was (Redacted)."


22) Katie Beer(6636)
".... when the incident began at Columbine High School, she initially tried to get out of the school by going toward the main doors on the east side of the school by the administrative offices, however, she said she saw a third shooter next to these offices and that this third shooter shot out windows at that location. ...Katy Beer told him this third shooter may have been (Redacted)."


23) Jason Brehm(719)
One of the shooters had a very round face, shorter than 5'11". Not Harris or Klebold.


24) Leanne Clark(1422)
"...Clark told her that she saw who did the shooting in the cafeteria, and that Clark identified (Redacted) as a gunman."


25) John Cook(756)
A couple of weeks after the massacre, "Cook said he believed he could ID both of the suspects if he saw photos of them again." Since everybody had seen the photos of H&K in the media, and knew they had died in the incident, Cook is clearly not talking about Eric or Dylan here.


26) Frank DeAngelis, School Principle(8018 )
"I also assisted the principle of Columbine, who was having hard time giving the pictures of possible suspects to the command post and was present when he looked at and identified one of the suspects he was named.(sic) The male suspect was in the custody of, I believe, Jefferson Co. Sheriff's investigators."


27) David Eagle(1878 )
"The guy with the gun had black hair looked like it was spiked shaved on the sides.(sic) It was also blond on top. 5'9", about 18 years old.

"He has since seen pictures of Harris and Klebold on television. ...David said that the person he saw did not look like the people he's seen on television."


28 ) Ashley Egelund(22671)
"Ashley was in north corridor when she observed (Redacted) and Eric Harris coming around the corner from the library.... She said Chris Morris was armed with a handgun while Harris was armed with a shotgun.(5248 ) ....both started shooting at Ashley.... Ashley did not know (Redacted) at first but she saw his picture in the yearbook and is positive it was (Redacted).

"... No photo lineup per Investigator Battan."


29) Amy Evans(22205)
"....Amy Evans said there was a third shooter and it was (Redacted)."


30) Joel Hatfield(19277)
"Joel Hatfield interviewed 4-29-99. Saw one shooter with excellent description of dress, physical, guns and movement. Could ID in lineup if needed." Once again, this cannot be H or K, as everybody was aware that H&K were in no position to stand in a lineup!


31) Mark Hengel(5901)
"Hengel identified Klebold and (Redacted) from the photograph in the attached 1A envelope.... Also attached is a 1A envelope is a diagram of Columbine High School indicating the diection of Hengel and the two individuals dressed in black."

Apparently the interviewing officer didn't like what he was hearing, and so the interviewer ends up telling the eyewitness what he saw:

"I then advised Mark Hengel that the skinny person he saw standing and shooting was Dylan Klebold and the person he saw standing over the duffel bag was Eric Harris."


32) AnneMarie Hochalter, gunshot victim outside the cafeteria(18218 )
"Advised that Harris/Klebold did not shoot her. .... Has ID on shooters."


33) Leigh Kamens(1422)
While in the 'green room' off of the science hall, she identified (Redacted) as one of the gunmen.

34) Tim Kastle(3416)
"As far as I know the suspects are Dylan Klebold, Eric Harris, (Redacted) and I think there might have been two others."


35) Alicia Maes(3614)
"Alicia stated that when she first observed the male in the black trench coat, she thought it was a person known to her as (Redacted)."


36) Lucas Milne
"Saw (Redacted) in commons at 11am in a black trenchcoat and knows (Redacted). States that Dan Goin and Brandon Little and Bijen Monte saw (Redacted) shooting at school. Milne picked out (Redacted) in photo lineup.


37) Leiha Murphy(3828 )
In the cafeteria, notices commotion outside north-west door. "I saw a guy I recognized as (Redacted). He was running... Stair had his blond hair down. It's past his shoulders. He's about 6', tall, skinny, he was wearing a long black trench coat.... I saw nothing in his hands. He was observed a short distance from whatever was going on at the door. My thought was that (Redacted) was involved if there was a fight."

Stair named in the cafeteria map(see page 3830). Leiha also immediately picked him out of a photo lineup.

"I ask Leiha if she was certain that this individual was (Redacted). Leiha said "Oh yeah, I'm certain.... I saw his face full on. I remember seeing his face completely....(she said he stood in place for about 15 seconds)....I remember him graduating last year." She remembers him wearing 'makeup on his face and hand' and that because of that, he stood out from other students." (3836)

Also, at least four ear- witnesses heard the suspects refer to one of their number as "Joe".(Encinas, 2943, Herivel, 1927, McKenna, 3525, and Salazar, EP21-224)


38 ) Mark Opfer(1064)
"At the time, Opfer believed the taller person in the black tenchcoat who with(sic) the shooter was (Redacted)....."

(25625)
"CHS student Mark Opfer was interviewed on 4-27-99... In that interview Opfer stated that he believed (Redacted, wearing a trench coat) was standing next to a gunman and was involved in the shooting."


39) Josh Ortwein(1939)
"...Josh Ortwein witnessed the shooting and he was telling everyone he saw (Redacted) shooting a gun."


40) Bree Pasquale(18018 )
Library eyewitness, was made to beg for her life. Says the gunman lived down the street from her and played the character "Morgan" in a school play. She knew him, and he knew her. Definitely not H or K!


41) Jessica Rusch(2143)
"...she identified one of the gunmen at the Columbine High School as being an individual known as (Redacted)."


42) Cara Sander(EP25-203)
Describes gunman as pudgy, overweight, very full face, thick bushy eyebrows. IDs him as (Redacted), who is heavy-set with a round face, short dark hair and dark eyebrows. A copy of the CHS yearbook page with Brian Sargent's photo is included in her interview. [John Ungerland(1701) says Brian Sargent has a round chubby face and is a big guy with bushy eyebrows. He saw him that morning at school; Sargent was wearing a short sleeve white button-up shirt-a polo type.]


43) Mindy Pollock(10009)
Sees one gunman outside west entrance, holding a gun on the fence. ...Dressed in a "white dress-type shirt", short brown hair, with a "little bit of a gut". "POLLOCK stated she recognized the lower, #1 gunman as (Redacted)."(1095)


44) Trent Karnes(912)
Says one suspect... had on a white dress shirt or a white sleeve shirt, he was holding a rifle on fence, shooting at people outside of cafeteria. [Note: Officially, both H&K were wearing T-shirts during the assault.]


45) Jen Smull(2182)
In science hall, sees Klebold and an older suspect, 25-30, blond with short, spiky, buzz-cut hair.


46) Valeen Schnurr, gunshot victim in library(18969)
"Per Valeen's mother, Shari Schnurr, Valeen possibly identified her shooter as (Redacted)."


47) Jennifer Tindall(1226)
"....insisted that neither suspect she saw was Eric Harris or Dylan Klebold. ...Tindall picked out (Redacted) photograph as possibly being the male in the black trench coat."


48 ) Adam Thompson(21039)
"....he had seen a gunman shooting inside the school. Does not think it is the same as gunmen in the media."


49) John Vandemark(2216)
In the science hall, sees older shooter with dark hair, spiky with blond tips.


50) Erin Walton(2243)
In th science hall, sees suspect with short blond hair-"like he was going bald"-older, in his 30s.


51) Emily Wyant(641)
A week after 4-20, says to the interviewing officer "...she would recognize them again if she saw them again."


52) Chris Wisher(9832)
"....he recognized one of the shooters--the other shooter was the kid wearing black that was arrested and placed in cuffs and put inside a black police car. He said that he is 100% positive that he was the male that shot at him."

(EP6-265)
"Thought he recognized Chris Morris as being one of the shooters.... ...on the west side of the cafeteria."






"Let the Truth be out, and let the chips fall where they may"

------------------------------------------

53) Aaron Welsh(610)
Can ID both suspects(on 4-22).

54&55) According to Hilary Snyder, Rachel Danford and Janel Phiebolt saw (Redacted) in school on 4-20. He was wearing a tye-dye shirt. Rachel alter sees (Redacted) down at Columbine Public Library.

56) Terry Lawson(10020)
ID other than H&K.

57) Monica Schuster(19470)
"Schuster saw gunman but did not believe it was Harris and Klebold."


Lisa Forgen(3005)
She sees 2 shooters, and tells IOs that she could identify them if she had photos. Interview given days after 4-20; the implication is that they were not H&K. (2+2=4)

Arthur Curtis(19444)
Saw two shooters, can ID them. (interview given on 4-28-99, the implication once again is that they were not HorK.


(DRMN 5-14-99)
"...people have reported that they saw others carry stuff into the building."



posted on Apr, 7 2005 @ 06:18 PM
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well it's normal for this to happen. anyone watch csi? hahah but in class they talked about how witnesses get caught up in the moment become confuses etc.





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