 |
|
Topic started on 7-3-2008 @ 09:51 PM by shipovfools
|
Think about it. All the parents who actively encourage the Santa Claus myth amongst their children and sneak presents under the tree to foster belief
in this mysterious immortal sky sleigh pilot.
This is something that has been on my mind lately. I find the history of Santa quite
fascinating. You can find much information online about the various pagan origins of Christmas (and other Christian holidays.) I'm not going in to
all that, but it is a point to keep in mind. It seems that Santa Claus is a strange amalgam of Christian and pagan traditions.
I will disclose that I am a rather mystically inclined agnostic myself, but I was raised in a Christian family, confirmed in a Lutheran church and
believing in Santa Claus for many childhood years. From what I understand about Christianity, the very overwhelming focus on Santa Claus - considering
the symbol's associations with both pagan figures and rampant consumerism - would very well be considered sacrilege and an encroachment on the
sanctity of their "holy day."
There is also the corporate angle to this. The ubiquitous image of our modern Santa was highly influenced by Coca Cola advertising. I'll give you the
Snopes story first. While debunking the myth that "the modern image of Santa Claus was created by
Coca Cola," they make a good case for the significant role Coke played in cementing that image in our collective minds.
Here's what Coke has to say about it. They seem rather proud of the role
they have played. And this Alternet article suggests that the Santa ad campaign was responsible for
boosting the slumping sales of Coke when its namesake ingredient was banned - forcing the company to target a new market. Funny to think that the
world's favorite soda began as a drug dealer. Maybe they're not so different today.
I personally don't know what to think about this, but I do have a strong suspicion that much of it is corporate. I would venture that our whole
concept of "Christmas," including the standardized Santa myth, is a calculated effort to encourage consumer culture - and give the companies a nice
boost at the end of the year!
What about the parents who
protest against letting kids believe in Santa?
I don't think that believing in Santa scarred me in any way. In fact, I tried to pretend I still believed long after I figured it out, because it
seemed my parents enjoy playing the game so much (and I had a younger sister for whom I didn't want to ruin it.) Its one of those things you slowly
come to realize after a few years and its no surprise when you really get it. Besides, I think it is not a bad idea to encourage children to expand
the dimensions of what they can imagine and believe in in the world.
But we must ask, why Santa Claus?
Cui bono?
What does our "worship" of this admittedly very rather bizarre character actually DO for us? Or for someone else?
I would love to hear some thoughts on all or some of this.
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 7-3-2008 @ 10:02 PM by TLomon
|
Personally, Santa Claus to me is paying homage to Saint Nicholas (Jolly Ol' Saint Nick), also known as Nicholas of Myra. He was a Greek Saint from
3rd century AD. Although modern commercialism has bastardized what Santa Claus is, my kids are being taught the classical stories, as well as the
historic, and that they are one and the same (for now at least).
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 7-3-2008 @ 10:26 PM by depth om
|
This is lighthearted, but, Santa is an anagram of satan, he comes from a pit of fire (fireplace/chimney), and he brings treasure to those who adhere
to his credo.
"He knows when you are sleeping.. he knows when you're awake"
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 7-3-2008 @ 10:28 PM by Grock
|
Personally, I dont teach my children about Santa for one simple reason, doing so teaches them very early in life that their parents are liars.
I remember how disappointed I was in finding out that my parents did not tell me the truth and that they KNEW they were lying to me.
That fact alone puts santa in league with the devil (prince of lies).
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 7-3-2008 @ 10:31 PM by lnc_63
|
When I was in prison , during christmas , several black men said , and I quote , " It's Kris Kringle holiday time for the white boys " and they
were right .
I grew up with this fairy tale being shoved down my throat , and it is just alot of typical white - old school racist agenda that was supposed to
make the children believe whites were superior .
It takes a little time ( including hard time ) , to realize what the moral " majority " desires really were . Since I was an adopted caucasion male
, my experiences reflect the true nature of having to live in the very consequences of my supposedly correct parentage , including taking the brunt of
harsh hatred , in which my racist step parents did not have to experience .
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 7-3-2008 @ 10:33 PM by TLomon
|
The interpretation of Santa as Satan is completely ludicrous. So Santa Clara, Santa Barbara, Santa Fe, Santa Maria... are all references to Satan?
Oh, and the latin origin of Saint is also satanic? Please explain, because I am not getting it.
It is one thing to comment on how merchandising has changed the meaning of Christmas, but another to add your own historic interpretation on it, that
completely contradicts... oh, the last 2000 years of linguistic origin?
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 7-3-2008 @ 11:55 PM by NuclearPaul
|
Personally, I'm anti-Claus all the way!
They say "it makes our children happy". But it IS a deception tactic, designed to enhance the lives of the elite, if nothing else.
Let's face the truth about this. Christmas itself I have noticed, is NOT a time of joy for most of the poor. Christmas puts people under enormous
psychological pressure to spend more than they can afford.
You feel bad because you are being forced into debt.
Your children demand expensive presents because "Santa" is paying.
If you love your kids more than your neighbor loves his, prove it by how much you spend.
And if you don't participate in the "festive season", then you are a "Grinch" (or worse).
The whole idea is one very clever marketing tactic that uses your love for your friends and family as a weapon against you.
Use Christmas against the major corporations and BUY nothing except quality time with your loved ones.
[edit on 7/3/08 by NuclearPaul]
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 12:02 AM by Vanitas
|
The interpretation of Santa as Satan is completely ludicrous. So Santa Clara, Santa Barbara, Santa Fe, Santa Maria... are all references to Satan?

The poster explicitly said the comment was "lighthearted" (= joke) - and I personally found his/her further "elaboration" quite clever and
amusing, in a lighthearted sort of way.
[edit on 8-3-2008 by Vanitas]
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 12:06 AM by Vanitas
|
That fact alone puts santa in league with the devil (prince of lies). 
Now that conclusion is brilliant in an almost scholastic (think Aquinas) sort of way!
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 12:10 AM by TLomon
|
An excellent post, NuclearPaul. Star to you.
On that subject, another thing that my children have learned is that not all kids have the lifestyle we do. As such, we participate in an "adopt a
family" program, where we donate food and gifts to a family in need in our area. My children personally hand gifts they chose to the other children
and see the look on the faces of the other children.
During the Katrina fiasco, my daughter (5 at the time) saw the TV reports and asked why they were asking for donations of childrens goods. I
explained the best I could and my daughter just freaked out. She ran upstairs and immediately picked out a collection of toys to donate to the kids
because they didn't have any. (I just explained that they lost everything - she came to the toy conclusion on her own). This isn't Xmas related,
but it shares the same spirit Xmas should have.
Teaching children what is important about the holiday... what it should mean... is the important part. Teaching the history of a man who gave to those
in need and as such, we celebrate that in our own lives... that is what is important.
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:07 AM by owzitgarn
|
Christmas has just turned into a big shopping and spending spree with thousands of people in Britain alone plunging themselves into debt in order to
buy people gifts who in turn do the same.
In the past the idea was great, the idea of giving a gift was a great idea of spreading happiness but the gift didn't have to be a £300 playstation
or a quad bike.
Also, the religious idea of Christmas is a huge scam, Jesus was born nearer April than December, the Church chose to have Easter and Christmas at the
times they are because it was the time of year when pagan religions held their festivals so the integration of Christianity was made easier by
choosing these dates.
With the commercialisation and religious conspiracies surrounding Christmas i'm just glad theres still the fact that it helps bring family and
friends together in celebration, otherwise it would be completely pointless and depressing event
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:13 AM by space cadet
|
Back in the 70's I saw a skit on Saturday Night Live about Santa that struck me as more truth than comedy! they had teh name Santa in magnets on a
board and mixed up the letters, talking about why do we tell little children after teaching them all their lives to not talk to strangers, now it is
okay to go up to a stranger dressed in all red, sit in his lap, and tell him our deepest and most self fullfilling desires in the belief that if you
tell him what you want yourself, you might just get all those material things. At the end of the skit, the letters are rearranged, instead of Santa
though, they now spell Satan. That one always stuck with me!
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 07:24 AM by VIKINGANT
|
The concept of Santa in itself I feel is a good thing and offers not just children but even adults hope in a hopeless world. However the commercialism
does give me the poops and takes away from the truth about Xmas. it is also used too often as a bribing tool for kids. i ve done it myself. but that
that mean we should rally to remove Santa from the Xmas scene? It has already started with the Muslims trying to ban it as being offenscive and the
"HO HO HO" issues lately. We need to hang on to as much Xmas as we can!
P.S. ceck out the link on my signature for another Santa story.
[edit on 8/3/2008 by VIKINGANT]
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |
reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 11:47 AM by shipovfools
|
Thanks to all for some insightful replies. I think part of the question which keeps nagging at me - at which was not really articulated in my first
post - is when did people start really "believing" in Santa.
I can understand recognizing the figure as a saint and even the evolution into a rather mythological (supernatural, even?) creature. But I don't
imagine that throughout the history of Santa legends children have held a LITERAL belief in a man who would without fail sneak into their homes every
year to deliver presents.
I suppose the famous "Night before Christmas" poem helped solidify that particular interpretation, but even then, was the author really try to pass
off this piece of whimsical fictional poetry as an account of an actual experience? I am inclined to think not. When did parents start actively
fostering this belief in their children? I imagine that must be tied to the commercialization. Parents "have" to buy more toys when the kids expect
not only gifts from Mom and Dad but also from that mysterious chimney crawler.
|
reply to this post:
copyright & usage
|
 |