It can happen here

reply to post by 1ShotDeal

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Could you expound on this point a bit?




Are you suggesting there is a force, military or otherwise, that would

take over the USA, round up their neighbors and deliver them to slave camps?

Me again. I just thought about something, In the past when I have bought ammo, I have noticed that the store where I go does not scan the boxes and the reciept I get dosnt say what I bought or how much I bought it just says the total price and yes most of these buys was with my card, So when somebody looks at the paper, they can see the stores I went to and how much I spent, Is there something im just not seeing here, I now no longer use my cards for most of my buys, Also.. In the past years I have spent a lot of money buying gear from a top shelf retailer, I always ordered over the phone, so Im sure they have a record of everything I ever bought from them, so even if i send them a money order i think it still goes on my customer file.

What I'm suggesting is the most probable way to use captives to help sustain a large captured area.
There is a long historical record of conquering tribes or countries enslaving those who are conquered.
I used Hitler and Germany as the most recent and blatant example.
It makes a facinating historical study and I'm a firm believer in that old saying
" those who do not study history, are condemned to repeat it "
I'm also a student of George Paton He was a brilliant tactician because he studied what other commanders had done before.

[edit on 9-3-2008 by 1ShotDeal]

reply to post by tac109

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Tac, hi there,

I'm sure some where in the goverment they have a whole filing cabinet dedicated to lil ol me. Thats why I feel secure sharing some of this here
With my background and DD214 I'm already a prime target

My pupose here isn't to create yet another reason for people to feel paranoid or fearful. What I hope to do is make people aware of how transparent thier lives realy are, and how easy they are to track.
That being said, in your specific case, yes you did leave an electronic trail. Even if the store didin't scan your purchasses, they did make a record of the amount and processed your method of payment.
Given the type of merchandise they sell, and the amount you bought, it can be safely infered whether you bought ammunition or a firearm.
Individual sales may not amount to anything, but a history of purchasses of a particular type and quantity would help to creat a profile that could be significant.
My suggestion is buy with cash. Avoid mail order, and beware of anyone wanting specific personal information.
Have you ever gone in to Radio Shack ? How about Auto Zone ?
Both places, as an example, ask for either your mailing address, or your home phone number even if your paying cash. Supposedly radio Shack does it to put you on an advertising maiiling list, and Auto Zone does it to keep an account for you in case of warranty issues. Those might be valid and true reasons, but they also creat a database of your purchasess and who and where you are.
I'm just not secure with leaving any more of an electronic footprint than I absolutely have to.

Anyone who has ever bought a firearm legally (which most of us have done) will probably be on the list. It won't matter if you claim to have sold, lost, or traded it, You're still on the list. So why worry about it now? The damage has been done, and it's senseless to worry over things you cannot change.

If you hold a Curio & Relics license, an FFL01, or have made purchases for ammo or shooting supplies with your credit/debit card, you're on the list. If you reload, and buy powder, primers, casings, bullets, etc. you're on the list. If you're a member of the NRA you're on the list, ad infinitum.

Think about all the databases that you're already part of.. Most stores now have savings cards like kroger. Everytime you make a grocery purchase it is added to their database. They roughly know how many people are in your household, how many small children you have, a rough estimate of your financial situation, even when your wife has her period and what brand of kotex or tampons she prefers. Isn't it great when they generate you a savings coupon for those items you purchase most often?

Your bank knows how much you have in checking and savings, and even reports suspiciously large fund transactions to the IRS to protect you from terrorists and money laundering operations. Do you buy and trade gold or other metals? You probably made another list!

The building supply stores now request your personal information for purchases of lumber, plumbing supplies, concrete, etc.. Don't believe me? Just go to your local home depot. They even have a little story on the terminal for the cashier to tell you to stave off questions as to why they need such information for a cash purchase. Sounds like paranoia, but it's all true.

Libraroes now must make a decision to destroy patron records daily or submit them for review to the government. You're reading preferences are even a matter of record. Careful what you choose to read or you could end up on a subversive list!

What's the solution, you're guess is as good as mine. I just refuse to keep myself awake at night worrying about who's list I've made today..



[edit on 3/9/08 by LLoyd45]

I can tell you about my experience with martial law.
For one thing, whatever gets put in place is going to be ruled as unconstitutional, but that does not matter, while you are under it.
My girlfriend was arrested walking down the street after curfiew.
She was probubly not more that a hundred yards from home, wearing a dress with no pockets and did not even have any shoes on.
She was walking back to the house after visiting a neighbor, but it was after dark.
The curfiew was in place to keep down looting, but she was obviously not looting and this was two weeks after the initial desaster that started the whole thing.
It did not do her any good that, a month after she had speant 40 days in jail, that the court decided that the law was illegal.

Undermind,

From page 1 and your post.



I dont know your age or education level but I suggest you think back and understand some historical concepts. The US government has been peeking into the profile of American lives without probable cause for over 40 years of which I know. It is not a matter of democrat or repubican partys...they are all doing it. Both military and civilian agencys.
What on this earth are you possibly thinking about here??
I suggest you cultivate some connections and friendships with people in the telephone buisnes or the cell phone industry to confirm this.
If you are also able ..people in the satellite end of these buisness.

What technology has done is make this snooping more possible...and more intrusive.
Do not be enamoured of whatever party is in office...they will both snoop and pry into our private buisness.

LLoyd45 has it pretty much in the bulls eye in thier description of all these club cards....like Costco, Sam's Club, BJ's or whatever the next one to come down the pipe. Farm Fresh, or Food Lion MVP cards. All these cards make it possible to tie your purchase into a tracking system even if you pay cash. Tie you in right down to your name and address. I never use this card when I go to food lion. I either ask someone behind me in line or do without. IT is no ones buisness what or how much of what I purchase.
They lure you in under the concept of saving a few dollars on a large purchase. Wow!! Someone values the informations mined more than the few dollars you appear to save on a large purchase.
I am considering dumping my cell phone account and purchasing a pre paid cell phone. I am not a phoneaholic as are so many folks out here so it will work out fine for me.
I am also considering dumping my land line phone as I seldom use this too. As I stated ..not a phonaholic.

I can make contact with folks I know and to whom I want to talk on my amateur radio. I can also make short phone calls through the auto patch system on two and Four-fourty meters using my radios.

This computer on line buisness is more a concern to me than the others. This medium is much more suseptable to automatic monitoring than any other.

I knew about the connections of uncle sam to the banks and the sleeping arrangements of the government with the phone companys. This has been true for over 40 years of which I know.

What I was not aware of is the trend with stores like Home Depot , Lowes, etc and the questions asked. I was not aware that it had gone that far. Thanks for updating me on that concept LLoyd45. I shall keep that in mind.

Orangetom

most stores now days ask for your phone number(which narrows it down to your house) or your zip code(which narrows it down to your town)
whether you use cash,check or debit/credit card.I always give them a false number in any case and always use cash to buy anything that has to do with guns or survival gear which I always buy at military surplus stores.I try to stay as low key as possible by not buying things that raises eyebrows.Theres an old military saying I try to live by and thats D.T.A. and cover your own rear cuz nobody else will,most people will sell you out in a heart beat if they think it will do them any good or get them some special favors.But i'm sure I'm on the list because all my guns are registered to me and where bought legally.

GREAT POST 1shotdeal
It woke me up to alot of things I didnt realize

This is a great thread, the best one i have been on in a while. I am going to start using cash for now on. When I get paid ill just take out enough cash to keep in my wallet to buy the stuff where I would have used my card. Especially at the gun shop, I dont want to live my life too paranoid , but I am going to live off the grid as much as I can for now on. What are some things I can do to slip further away from the radar.

reply to post by tac109

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Using cash is a start,never give out your real phone number or zip code.Here are a few more things I do,I never use an atm machine that is in a store only banks(that way they dont know where i'll spend it),go to more than one sporting good store to buy gear(helps that I travel all over)I can't tell you the last time I wrote a check(been so long ago),Never tell anyone about all your gear you have ,you never know who he or she really is.Like i said before D.T.A.dont trust anyone.

reply to post by orangetom1999

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No problem Orangetom. I wasn't sure how many people were aware of these low key activities, so I thought I'd mention it in passing. Wal Mart also flags purchases over $1000. Once again, they claim it's to prevent money laundering.. If you plan to make large purchases there, don't. Break them up into smaller sales or better yet, buy at different stores. They'll request your personal information otherwise.

Phones are already being tracked by the government's own admission. Qwest was the last to knuckle under and provide the information requested. They log calls across the country to identify unusual calling patterns. Supposedly this will help them identify possible subversive groups. Just about all new cell phones now have gps tracking chips in them. If your phone is on, they can find you. Scary when you think about it..

Onstar is the best new tool they have. It will not only track you, but can disable your car remotely. The police are using it regularly to catch bad guys. I wonder how many people would want the service if they knew in addition to helping them in an emergency, it could also be used to track or aid in their apprehension?

Most major cities now have video surveilance cameras located in strategic locations which scan the crowds and run facial recognition software to identify fugitives from justice. Big Brother is everywhere.

I forgot about Autozone assomeone mentioned. They have every vehicle I own or have ever purchased parts for in their database. Nothing is private anymore.

When the social security card was first introduced it was promised that it would never be used for identication or any other purpose. Try to get a job, buy a house, or open a bank account nowadays without one. If you're an illegal though, you'd probably have no trouble at all doing so. Funny how that works, huh?

As for gun registration, it's always best to be aboveboard. Get caught with an unregistered weapon, and they'll crucify you. It's a Catch-22 situation no matter how you look at it though.

reply to post by orangetom1999

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For real?

Is this some kind of note of alarm at the concept of the Executive Power - with a subservient Republican majority in both houses at the time (just the facts jack!) - actually passing in record time and largely unread, legislation that made a sock puppet of the Constitution and Bill of Rights?

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000
allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001
allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002
designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

We are all on a list. As soon as we are born the clock startrs to run...IMO.

When we buy a house, car, or other item large enough to sign our life away, we are tracked by the powers that be. The only thing that we can do...as stated by the majority of folks on the thread...is DON'T MAKE AN EASY TARGET.

P2P purchases for firearms and ammo is an excellent way to go.

IMO the only way to stay off the grid is stop using it. There is plenty of things out there to eat to survive. I would go into details but most of you wouldn't eat them unless your extremely desperate,but i find them all just as nutrious as a steak and i don't have to pay for them.I learned how to survive off the land when I was young so to eat what i need to survive doesn't bother me.(and im not talking about poaching)

as far as having a mode of transportation the only one I have is what I was born with..(FEET).I have walked/thumbed from Ct to Florida to Tx to ILL then back to Ct with 20$ in my pocket and never spent more than 5$ the whole time and not living off anyone the whole trip.(exept for the rides)The trip took me over a year.

to get clothing all you need to do is look for ppl that are throwing the things out.

Im sure im on the top of the list because I am one that can think and supply for myself and I don't need someone elses support.

But if everyone quit living off the grid then the govt would definately call marshal law or the prez and congress would have to plow the field themselves.


Live Free Or DIE
rtcctr

My intentions were not to add yet another thing for people to worry about or become paranoid of.
What I hoped to do was illustrate a plausable scenario of how martial law could be instituted and enforced in the US.
My thinking is that if I can concieve it, some one else most probably has, and what a shame it would be if people were to suffer and die just because they couldn't believe the unbelievable.
My posts are meant simply to make people aware. Just as, if you were venturing into the desert where I live, I would feel obligated to make you aware of the hidden dangers. Not to deter you from treking the desert, nor enjoying it. Just to be aware. As simple as that.
If there are those who think this topic is too simplistic and falls into the " DUH" catagory, Your not the one I'm writing for.
I'm posting for the other folks who either havent considered these things, or casn't concieve it happening here.