Non Christians What If The Bible Is True?

reply to post by an3rkist


Although I consider myself spiritual, I agree with you for the most part.

The problem with religion is that it is all the same story. In terms of Christianity, its the same story told over and over again for thousands of years.

In my opinion, religion gives you a basis and tells you fables about how you should be and live like you appreciate life (including all others). Other than than, I think my God starting the big bang with a flick of a finger and then went on to do bigger and better things, not involving us and letting the human race become what it will.

EDIT: SORRY DP

[edit on 3/8/08 by SantaClaus]

Every christian says that if you dont believe in god then your going to burn in hell yet any phedophile priest or murderer can ask for gods forgiveness and be saved?! well even if there was a god do you think he would overlook such matters and let someone so bad go to heaven and someone who has been good all their life but not believed go to hell? thanks but doesnt sound like heaven is such a great place after all.

Originally posted by AotearoaSon

Originally posted by Bigwhammy



Ok two versions at least 1000 years apart. Prophecy of the coming Messiah, Yeshua

Below is the King James Version of Isaiah 53:1-3.

[1] Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Below is the same passage from the Great Isaiah Scroll.

[1] Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor he hath comeliness; and when we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire ourselves.
[3] He is despised and rejected of men and man of sorrows, and he knows grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; and despised him, and we esteemed him not.

Isaiah Scroll and the Masoretic Text

So are you sure that those exact words were used?

They seem awfully "King James" to me. I'm not so sure that the people of the Middle East had knowledge of that form of English in their day!

It says it's the King James compared to the text of the Isaiah scroll!

There are exactly 17 letters different in the ancient Hebrew form the Isaiah scroll and the Hebrew text used for the KJV, since most people don't read Hebrew it wouldn't make sense to show that. It is translated to English so you can see the difference. Use the link to see the Hebrew.
Sorry if that wasn't clear.




[edit on 3/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Whew, this thread is just gonna really bring out the Christian haters. I'm here with ya whammy. I read also and I will find it and post it here, that the temple where Pilate served was unearthed and had his name inscribed on one of the pillars.

I did find this so far,

Until recently our only sources for the existence of Pilate were the writings of Flavius Josephus and Philo of Alexandria, the crucifixion narrative found in the gospels, and a (disputed) reference in Tacitus. The apochryphal writings, such as the Acts of Pilate, are of much later composition and little can be gleaned from them.

Some doubts have been raised whether Pilate's title was that of Prefect or Procurator, or even that he existed. However in 1961 a limestone block was discovered at Caesarea, the seat of Roman power for Judaea and Samaria during the early part of the first century CE. The inscription, which is partially legible, confirms the authenticity of Pilate and his title as Prefect of Judaea (praefectus judaeae).

A reconstruction of the complete text is given below. The letters highlighted in red are visible on the stone.

There was a more recent discovery and I'll continue to look.

www.cursormundi.com...

To the OP.

I'm sure this has been brought up before....but:

Are you saying that just because the bible lists places, names, and people of that time, the whole 'god' and 'miracle' things must be true as well? Because if that the case, you'd have to believe in pretty much EVERY OTHER RELIGION. No one is saying the bible (non-supernatural parts) was completely made up. After all, most of Genesis was takin' from Sumerian Epic of Gilgamesh, which included real people, places, and things. So I'm not sure I see your argument...

Here's somemore info,

Crucial find in Nuzi (northeastern Iraq), an entire cache of Hittite legal documents from 1400 B.C. Confirms many details of Genesis, Deuteronomy, such as: (a) siring of legitimate children through handmaidens, (b) oral deathbed will as binding, (c) the power to sell one's birthright for relatively trivial property (Jacob & Esau), (d) need for family idols, such as Rachel stole from Laban, to secure inheritance, (e) form of the covenant in Deuteronomy exactly matches the form of suzerainty treaties between Hittite emperors and vassal kings.

Walls of Jericho—discovery in 1930s by John Garstang. The walls fell suddenly, and outwardly (unique), so Israelites could clamber over the ruins into the city (Joshua 6:20).

In 1993, archaeologists uncovered a 9th century B.C. inscription at Tel Dan. The words carved into a chunk of basalt refer to the "House of David" and the "King of Israel." And the Bible's version of Israelite history after the reign of David's son, Solomon, is believed to be based on historical fact because it is corroborated by independent account of Egyptian and Assyrian inscriptions.

The ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah have been discovered southeast of the Dead Sea. Evidence at the site seems consistent with the biblical account: "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens." The destruction debris was about 3 feet thick and buildings were burned from fires that started on the rooftops. Geologist Frederick Clapp theorizes that that pressure from an earthquake could have spewed out sulfur-laden bitumen (similar to asphalt) known to be in the area through the fault line upon which the cities rest. The dense smoke reported by Abraham is consistent with a fire from such material, which could have ignited by a spark or ground fire.

Another king who was in doubt was Belshazzar, king of Babylon, named in Daniel 5. The last king of Babylon was Nabonidus according to recorded history. Tablet was found showing that Belshazzar was Nabonidus' son.

I'm still diggin.

Sorry, the link for that last post is this.
www.faithfacts.org...

reply to post by Bigwhammy


Nice post on the Isiah scroll!!!!

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Here's somemore info,


The ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah have been discovered southeast of the Dead Sea. Evidence at the site seems consistent with the biblical account: "Then the Lord rained down burning sulfur on Sodom and Gomorrah—from the Lord out of the heavens." The destruction debris was about 3 feet thick and buildings were burned from fires that started on the rooftops. Geologist Frederick Clapp theorizes that that pressure from an earthquake could have spewed out sulfur-laden bitumen (similar to asphalt) known to be in the area through the fault line upon which the cities rest. The dense smoke reported by Abraham is consistent with a fire from such material, which could have ignited by a spark or ground fire.

See not that long ago the critics said it never existed... (sound familiar)
check this out!!!







[edit on 3/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by NewWorldOver

Originally posted by idle_rocker
Nice thread BW. Much of the bible historical references have indeed been shown to be true through archeological findings. I think some of the problem may lie in the fact that the different writers of the Bible all had different writing styles, just as all authors do today.

Yep. Also, people are still arguing whether the Bible is the actual word of God.

How can a Bible that has been edited by the Vatican, by Roman emperors, written by multiple authors and translated many times, be the word of God? If it WERE the word of God it has been irreparably damaged.

If it's a true historical account (likely) and the spiritual lessons are ancient AND true (likely) we would still be in the same situation... people still do not care what bits of knowledge are in the Bible, they are trained to despise anything related to organized religion etc. People would still be 'godless' etc... even if the Bible were absolutely true.

True, the Bible has been edited by the Vatican and others....who are they to have the right to "edit" God's law? I believe in Daniel or Revelation, it was said the beast would think to change God's law......thoughts???

Originally posted by an3rkist

Originally posted by idle_rocker
There are also prophecies written in the Bible that are confirmed in great number. The Old Testament was largely a historical record of the Israeli people and prophecy about the future messiah.

Did the greeks prophecy the coming of a savior? No. Did they prophecy anything that was written later and then later proven true? No. The Greeks were pagan, so what they believed and what archeology has shown as far as their existence has no bearing on whether the Bible is true. If anything, it proves that archeology is a good source for proving the existence of ancient civilizations...which would then also support the Bible.

Well that's all well and good, assuming you can prove to me that Jesus was a Messiah. The logic in this argument is so inherently flawed that it blows my mind. You expect to sway us skeptics with claims of prophecy which are only verified if you believe the myths in the first place.

SSSSOOOoo.....these "myths" just happened to fall in the precise years that were prophesized huh.......wow, i love non-believers, they just back themselves right up in a corner and then find a need to bash someone in order to feel better about their silly little system of life....

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by NewWorldOver
How can a Bible that has been edited by the Vatican, by Roman emperors, written by multiple authors and translated many times, be the word of God? If it WERE the word of God it has been irreparably damaged.

That's a good question, NWO. If you ask me, I do believe the Papacy was responsible for rewriting many things. The way they redid the Ten Commandments is a huge example. And don't get me started on the KJV.

But the Greek texts of the NT that precede all of these things still exist. There's something like 5-25 thousands manuscripts still in existence from the 1st and 2nd centuries. This is before the councils, canonization, KJV, the church sanctioned by Rome, and Constantine.
Just food for thought.

Never heard anything really bad about the KJV....whats wrong with it? Other than you really can't understand it

reply to post by beach2197


I believe the scriptures are the inerrant word of God in their original language. The problems come from the translations. That's why you see me putting up threads discussing the meanings of Greek and Hebrew words. Like the Sorcery Conspiracy thread I just did. The word Sorcery as seen in the New Testament comes from the Greek pharmikia which means "drug use." not Harry Potter magic.

Originally posted by SaadAdam
It would be much easy if we had a big court date for all biggest religous masters and all masters of athiasim come together to debate and see witch is tru and bring evidence to the table and we will see who wins

we all know science and athiast will take the place.

wouldent this world love to change.

Science and athiest would be EMBARRASSED to even show up

reply to post by beach2197


Speaking of science, here's some science for you.

Law of increasing entropy


The first established principle of thermodynamics (which eventually became the Second Law) was formulated by Sadi Carnot in 1824.

2nd Law Of Thermodynamics: "The entropy of an isolated system not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."

Entropy: A thermodynamic quantity (S), it is a measure of disorder of a system, ie the higher the disorder, the higher the entropy value.

The psalms were written over an extended period of time (around 1000 B.C. until 400 B.C.) by different authors.

(Psalm 102:25-27)

25 In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

26 They will perish, but you remain;
they will all wear out like a garment.
Like clothing you will change them
and they will be discarded.

27 But you remain the same,
and your years will never end.

Science figures it out 1824 A.D.
Bible conservatively 400 B.C.

Verse 26 clearly show the law of increasing entropy a minimum of 2024 years before the second law of thermodynamics was theorized.

reply to post by Bigwhammy


So, for the Vatican to change worship from Saturday to Sunday is really big screw up

reply to post by beach2197


Well actually it's not that big of deal. Technically your supposed to rest on the Sabbath not go to church. Right? So take the day off...

Here Some Good Offer A Nice Program to All Non Christians. In God Everything has an Answer and Every Problem of man will be Solve . (^^,)



Jeremiah 6:16

16 This is what the LORD says:
"Stand at the crossroads and look;
ask for the ancient paths,
ask where the good way is, and walk in it,
and you will find rest for your souls.
But you said, 'We will not walk in it.'


Isaiah 34:16

16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read:
None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

Mark 4:11-12

11He told them, "The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables

12so that, " 'they may be ever seeing but never perceiving,
and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!'[a]"


Daniel 12:4, 9-10

4 But you, Daniel, close up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."

9 He replied, "Go your way, Daniel, because the words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. 10 Many will be purified, made spotless and refined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked will understand, but those who are wise will understand.


I hope this Primary Verses Will you

after understanding it Deeply from it's Outer core to Inner Core Meaning Do this...1 John 4:1-3


1 John 1:8-9

8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.


Jeremiah 6:16

16 This is what the LORD says:
"Stand at the crossroads and look;
ask for the ancient paths,
ask where the good way is, and walk in it,
and you will find rest for your souls.
But you said, 'We will not walk in it.'

Isaiah 34:16

16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read:
None of these will be missing,
not one will lack her mate.
For it is his mouth that has given the order,
and his Spirit will gather them together.

I have words to say to you my friend
Is it hard to know what’s right from wrong
Have you ever felt your life so self assured
You don’t know the things that you’ve done wrong
And then we’ll say
We’ll rip out our covers
Shake the walls until they break
I’ll hold out my hand to you
Supreme love and respect
Peace man
At first it seems so daunting
How to start or how to grow
But make believe becomes a living
Cuz in life, in life you will know
Peace man

Ecclesiastes 7:3-5

3 Sorrow is better than laughter,
because a sad face is good for the heart.
4 The heart of the wise is in the house of mourning,
but the heart of fools is in the house of pleasure.
5 It is better to heed a wise man's rebuke
than to listen to the song of fools.