Non Christians What If The Bible Is True?

Ah, here is our disagreement then. Where I think the Greek mythologies are that, mythologies, I believe the Bible to be true. Why? One way is because the many prophecies in the Old Testament are proven in the New Testament. The Old Testament, beyond the history contained therein, is a foreshadowing of the future. And the New Testament proves the truth of the foreshadowing. Make sense?

I appreciate your interest in the subject and your willingness to debate without abuse.

reply to post by an3rkist



i agree also its all myths and storys no hard evidence whats so ever on anything written in the bible?

if the religion god and jesus story is so real y dident thay mention dinasours in the bible? and if its gods word?. How can it be gods word if it has authors?. Are thay trying to say ppl back then spoke to god and now days no one can speak to god?. Y is that?.

Hi, i'm just gonna throw my two cents in just to mix things up a little and maybe give people some ideas.

Right, I'm Christian. So, what does that mean? Catholic? Protestant? Well, officially i'm catholic, but the way I see it is its all the same God, just different points of view. The bible was written by humans, and God didn't exactly sit at the table dictating did he? The writers interpreted what they'd seen, heard etc.

Put simply, the bible (IMO) is just a massive game of chinese whispers. Man sees miracle, believes is act of God, bigs it up slightly to impress non believer. story changes slightly. instead of a man getting over a cold, he gets over the flu. next person says he gets over chicken pox, next man says lepracy, next man says he was brought back from the dead. It's happened throughout history, and even in this day in age with our ability to accurate detail things, it probably still will.

Once there were Jews. Then Christ came along. Christ was a Jew, so.. Why aren't all christians jews? morals were the same, the rules/commandments etc were essentially the same, so why the change? Because a non-jew decided to follow Jesus and his God and called himself Christian, not acknowledging the fact Jesus was a jew for the fact that he was a jew. we need to remember here that Jews were severely disliked around this time, so anybody who wasn't a jew feared for calling themselves such following Christ, and therefore gave it a twist which had stuck.

Many Sacrificial lambs later...
We have the Catholic church. Now, my history is very rusty so feel free to fill in the most likely many blanks. the crusades started, and off we go to massacre pillage etc in the name of our lord. But wait, when did he ask for that? Hasn't he always said that people will be judged on judgment day? If that's the case why go on a pillage/crusade/slaughter/pub crawl/stag night or whatever they did back in the day? Human Interpretation. And once again, like throughout the historybooks it was one person controlling the many.

One man has a vision from God, if that man has power (ie. the Pope) His followers will believe this to be the word of god and off they go.
At the end of the day, i believe it comes down to human pride. Let's say we have a religion, none that exist today to avoid more conflict Longyism . Right, i am the leader/prophet or what ever. Some Guys over the other side of my River believe my God doesn't exist, and their God is right. He thinks what? hang on, i'm right. He can't be right! Wait, why are they going over to his city to pray to his God!? you can't have more than one different god! I'm right! they should believe mine! *Fakes migraine* i'm having a vision from god... we have to convert them at all costs!

Think of it in terms of Football (Soccer for the US ) I'm sure we've all seen footballing riots over on the continent, half the time we're involved someway or another lol. why do they fight? because they firmly believe their team is better. That's what religion comes down to. Mine's better than yours.

Now, for the divisions of Christianity. We have the Catholic Church, ok, one of the oldest divisions leaving room for hundreds of years' worth of tale-twisting etc. (i'm skipping the ones i don't know much about out so i don't embarass myself ) Then Church of England pops up so that the King can divorce people. hmm. what a thing to base religion on.. Protestants crop up because they don't believe catholicism is right, fair play to them, ENTITLED TO THEIR BELIEFS.

Bottom line is, its up to anybody what people believe, but the most important thing we need to remember is that even the simplest truths can become.. distorted over time, things this complicated are guaranteed to.

I believe God's there, I just don't believe what people tell me he says

ps. EVERYTHING stated in this post is strictly opinion only. None is meant to offend, disclaim, disprove or any other form of criticism/blasphemy or what have you. Just throwing the dog a bone to chew on.

reply to post by idle_rocker


Well I think that what's proof to one is not necessarily proof to others. Again, I think that you're basing your "proof" on your ingrained beliefs. For your proof [the New Testament] to be proof, you would first have to prove to me that the New Testament was completely accurate. Archaeological evidence of the existence of the civilizations mentioned and even the man mentioned only serves to verify their existence, not the stories told about them. You can show me the cross Jesus was crucified on, show me DNA evidence that it was his blood, (ignoring the fact that there's not really any DNA to compare it to), and that still would not even begin to build a foundation for me to build any faith in his divinity on.

Faith is what it is because you cannot prove it, and thus it seems ironic to me that anyone with faith would try to prove anything to non-believers. Just my opinion though.

Here's what I don't understand about the Atheists..

When a thread like this comes up, or one similar that isn't even addressing them, when they add their 2 cents, they cant just leave it at that.

They have to go on and on about how this can't be true and that can't be true, and how they cannot yield to a system that cannot be proven 100% to be true to them. They talk so much, and so often, saying the exact same things, that it's almost like the Atheists feel the need to be understood in their choice, as if they are somehow insecure about it in some way, somewhere deep in their psyche, and it's motivating them to repeatedly reply with long drawn out posts saying the same crap over and over. Which is, simply, that they dont believe in God, the Bible, or that the events in the Bible happened. They try so hard...

my question is WHY? If you are content in your belief, why do you feel the need to discuss and debate so freakin' much about it? Why not let it be? Thats how I feel anyways .. I'm a believer, and unless a thread or post really, really gets under my thick hide, I dont feel the need to announce my belief every 5 minutes, and write long winded posts about why I believe. I just do, and thats all that concerns me. Having discussions about it? No thanks.

Is it that the Atheists want to convert people into fellow Atheist? lol. I mean, I am not actively trying to bring anyone into the flock of sheep, so why should you? Could it be because of the insecurity you may secretly feel about this decision of yours, to be Atheist?

Do all of the cultures in the world, from as far back as history is recordable in any way, each having their own intricate afterlife, instructions for it, and a way to life proceeding it ... BOTHER YOU?

Are you thinking like:

"Damn ... every significant group of people since the beginning OF people has felt strongly that their was an afterlife.. why is this.. there must be something to this.. but wait, nothing can be proven, and I have been conditioned by schooling to only accept things which I can prove 100%, I cannot be a believer. But wait .. it looks like their onto something and I dont want my soul to be damned for eternity ... arghhh!"

It's okay. This is how you should feel. It's because you're trying to refute the truth, and when you try to convince yourself that the truth is lie and that lie is the truth, it can have all kinds of bad side effects on your behavior, but more importantly, in your thinking and decision making.

Well, I'm not tring to prove anything to you because that's not what this thread is about. But yes, Christianity does require a certain amount of faith. But I have to have faith my lights are going to come on every day too, and that the sun is going to provide light so the plants can grow. So do you.

But back to the topic. What if the Bible IS true and you don't believe it? What do you think will happen to you?

This was reply to An3rkst (sorry if I spelled your name wrong)





[edit on 3/7/08 by idle_rocker]

It would be much easy if we had a big court date for all biggest religous masters and all masters of athiasim come together to debate and see witch is tru and bring evidence to the table and we will see who wins

we all know science and athiast will take the place.

wouldent this world love to change.

Originally posted by idle_rocker

But back to the topic. What if the Bible IS true and you don't believe it? What do you think will happen to you?

[edit on 3/7/08 by idle_rocker]

ima an athiest and what i rekon is we wil lgo to another universe and respawn there or maybe this is just it i aint scared of death i am actualy looking forward to it from the happyness i have of thinking life after death is wierd i have many thoughts and theoorys about life after death non are religous because i wouldent right mine into a bible and make others follow it.

reply to post by idle_rocker


If the Bible is true I don't think anything horrible will happen to me. The thing I despise most about religion is this idea that if we don't have faith, we will be damned. I need more of a reason to believe in something than that if I don't I'm going to hell. If the Bible is true, and there is a God, I don't think he'll condemn me for listening to reason above faith. And if he does, I would rather spend an eternity in Hell than spend one second praising his "almighty" name.

reply to post by SaadAdam


There was a special on the BBC where a bunch of people from different religions got together and had a wonderful debate on all of this. The amazing thing was, it mostly boiled down to all of them, including the atheist believing the same thing: peace and love. I believe the Bible teaches the same basic principles as every other religion, albeit in a very roundabout way, and in that sense it is true. But I don't believe much of it can be taken literally. Even the idea of God in the Bible is a metaphor to me. A metaphor for what? For ourselves. I believe that we are all our own gods. And what I love about my belief, is that every religious dogma that I've come across, and every philosophy that I study, supports it. Of course, I have to interpret them each in my own way, but I love being able to read the Bible or the Koran or even the Satanic Bible, or Greek mythology, and have what I believe to be true be further strengthened by it.

[edit on 7/3/08 by an3rkist]

reply to post by an3rkist


From previous quote by an3rkist:
"I think that you're basing your "proof" on your ingrained beliefs."


No, actually, I'm probably old enough to be your grandmother. I'm thinking that you're about the age I was when I began my search for the truth, and I didn't get there until just a few years ago. So this occurred over quite a number of years.

reply to post by idle_rocker


Do you know that the only reason prophecies were fulfilled in the new testament that were foretold in the old is because the bible was written after the facts.

How can we tell is true or not, is not way because by the time the bible was redacted all the prophecies were already foretold and fulfilled, all you get is the word that they were.

Interesting how people do no question how this may be but takes it as fact.

None of us were there and is nobody from the bible times to tell their stories either so if is written it must be true, right?

reply to post by an3rkist



have any of u guys seen this quote?

"Religion Has Actually Convinced People That Theres An Invisible Man Living In The Sky Who Watches Everything You Do Every Minute Of Every Day And The Invisible Man Has A Special List Of 10 Things He Does Not Want You To Do And If You Do Any Of These 10 Things He Has A Special Place Full Of Fire And Smoke And Burning And Torture And Anguish Where He Will Send You To Live And Suffer And Burn And Choke And Scream And Cry For Ever And Ever Until The End Of Time [But He Loves You]"

Originally posted by runetang
Here's what I don't understand about the Atheists..

When a thread like this comes up, or one similar that isn't even addressing them, when they add their 2 cents, they cant just leave it at that.

Perhaps it is for the same reasons you've written this rather long reply... I think it quite obtuse for somebody to criticize people for openly debating in a FORUM. Your post is doing the same thing, the only difference is that yours has no arguments, only tactless criticisms and far-out assumptions - that incidentally are what create Christian stereotypes...

my question is WHY? If you are content in your belief, why do you feel the need to discuss and debate so freakin' much about it? Why not let it be?...

...Could it be because of the insecurity you may secretly feel about this decision of yours, to be Atheist?

If our criticisms of your belief system offend you, perhaps you're the one who is insecure about your beliefs.

Is it that the Atheists want to convert people into fellow Atheist? lol. I mean, I am not actively trying to bring anyone into the flock of sheep, so why should you?

The OP asked a question directed at us. If we are wrong for answering, then the OP was wrong for asking. When we're asked a direct question, and we answer, how does that suggest to you that we're trying to "convert" anybody?

Do all of the cultures in the world, from as far back as history is recordable in any way, each having their own intricate afterlife, instructions for it, and a way to life proceeding it ... BOTHER YOU?

Yes, when it's used to justify bigotry. But on a more basic level, no.

Why should we shut up about our beliefs when your entire post was nothing but your own beliefs, not even on the topic, but on those of us who are actually answering the OP's question?

[edit on 7/3/08 by an3rkist]

Originally posted by marg6043
Bigwhammy, am trying to figure out what is your point with this thread.

I don't think that is anybody here be atheist or not that can not see the major importance of the old testament of the bible and ancient history.

I don't think the issue is how much the bible is true, but rather how much of the bible can be trusted as divinely inspired.

Well that's up to each individual to decide. When I first began to look I was highly critical and threw up most of the same objections I see here. Only by putting my criticism aside and studying it have seen enough evidence for myself to base my life on it.

What kind of answer are you seeking with this thread?

Honestly I looked at the board this afternoon and every thread title I saw was bashing my faith. Christians how do you justify this! Moses was on Dope! So I decided to turn the tables. I just want to show some evidence that confirms my faith min a proactive manner instead of in a defensive manner.

I have also noticed most of the folks who are doing the criticizing of the scriptures are absolutely unfamiliar with them. So then it becomes a case of spoon feeding basic information just to get the context. And they always take it out of context. So my idea is hey look here are some real life confirmations of Bible events. Maybe you shouldn't make a snap judgement.
What if its true and eternity is at stake. Do you want to gamble eternity on the scholarship of the kid that made zeitgeist? That's a sucker bet.

And I am being one hundred percent honest when I say I believe there is a conspiracy to hide the accuracy and truth of the Bible. So it is a conspiracy. The oldest one in history. It all started in the garden.





[edit on 3/7/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by idle_rocker

 

Do you know that the only reason prophecies were fulfilled in the new testament that were foretold in the old is because the bible was written after the facts.
?

That's why i put up the great Isaiah scroll it was carbon dated 1000 years before the events it accurately depicts. It was not rewritten. So you can not say that.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
What if its true and eternity is at stake.

I see what you're saying here, but this is one of my biggest criticisms of faith: If eternity was not at stake, and it didn't matter whether you really believed in it or not, but it was all still true and the "right" thing to believe in, would you all still believe? The Bible does a good job of painting a horror-filled picture of the wrath of the Almighty, so how can you possibly know if your faith isn't just based on the fear of that? I mean, just "covering your bases", in other words, believing "just in case" there really is a Hell, is not really a good reason to have faith.

Let me ask "RELIGOUS" people a question y dont u all follow everything the bible says?

Do u suppourt what its doing?

public stoning?
slavery?
disowning?

and many more?

reply to post by Bigwhammy



this is what i dont get y dont u stop reading out of the book and stop abit in the faith and show some evidence ?

This is like news exactly thay say something happens and everyone thinks it happend exactly how it said?.

and dont say u meet god? or jesus and dont say religon is good because if it was the ones preaching it wouldent touch lil boys? think about that for a second

reply to post by an3rkist


I know where your coming from. I hate fire and brimstone preaching. And I do not believe in eternal torment. Actual Picture of Hell is a thread I did dealing with why I think eternal Hell is not Biblical at all.

However it is clear there will be some sort of judgment. I believe it will be up to Jesus to make that judgment. The standard is his. It might be that good people who are not official "Christians" make it I don't know. But I believe it will be through him.

My point in saying that is it ought to inspire more than watching a youtube videos worth of research before making a judgment that potentially has eternal ramifications.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by an3rkist

 

I know where your coming from. I hate fire and brimstone preaching. And I do not believe in eternal torment. Actual Picture of Hell is a thread I did dealing with why I think eternal Hell is not Biblical at all.

However it is clear there will be some sort of judgment. I believe it will be up to Jesus to make that judgment. The standard is his. It might be that good people who are not official "Christians" make it I don't know. But I believe it will be through him.

My point in saying that is it ought to inspire more than watching a youtube videos worth of research before making a judgment that potentially has eternal ramifications.

And your evidence behind jesus being the decider of were we go after life is? jesus is a myth to me he never existed its all just a story were we go has nothing to do with religion if religion really knew were we would go it will know science like we do but it never explains anything on were we really come from and wene it does its a myth.

Its like going to court and putting your hand on the bible?. And saying u are telling the truth?. Why do humans need to do that its not like the bible is the truth it has no evidence?. Isent the court mainly about evidence? specialy on a big case like this.