Non Christians What If The Bible Is True?, page 15

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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:14 PM by Christian Voice

If you even need to know or care that someone is gay then you are judging them.

I don't need to know anything about someones gay lifestyle nor do I want to. But the endless whining about their rights and their parades and their television shows just broadcast it all over the place. I certainly do not go out of my way to find out if someone is gay or not.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:14 PM by marg6043

reply to post by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR

I think that our friend here is getting highly frustrated with us, too bad that the last time I checked the tittle of this forum, didn't say anything about been for fundamentalist Christians only.

I truly believe that he topic was already been exhausted and is nothing more here but the sad manifestation of unfulfilled agendas.

Sad truly, I still will thank the Author of the OP for such a great link to the Ebla Kingdom discoveries.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:17 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR

reply to post by Christian Voice

If they cant come to your church then yes you are . Are you saying you wouldnt mind a gay preist at your churches summer camp ?
You cant even give a group of people a chance you just brush there oppression off like it isn't happening .
What a good lot you are .

Oh my i stand up for an oppressed people and i'm the bad guy . Call the Vatican I may need to be "cleansed"

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:17 PM by an3rkist

Originally posted by Christian Voice
But the endless whining about their rights ...

I don't think Jesus would be offended by people wanting to have the rights they deserve. Even Jesus did not say they should not be allowed to be gay.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:18 PM by AotearoaSon

Originally posted by Christian Voice

No you don't. you can't. Homosexuality is strictly forbidden and against God. You cannot be a Christian and live an obvious abonimous lifestyle, and you most certainly cannot be a member of the clergy af any legitimate church.

Leviticus 20:13
13And if a man lie with mankind, as with womankind, both of them have committed abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them
1901 American Standard Version, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.) 1994.

So are you now saying that I can't, that I don't know any christians who are homosexual and that I don't know any clergy who are homosexual? Well, again, I will tell you that I do, and that they are respected in their community and in their church. And that they are, indeed, christian.

And from the quiote you furnished, are you saying that we should put them to death for this fact, because that is what the gist of that quotation.
It sounds pretty intolerant and fascist to me.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:21 PM by Christian Voice

Quoting scripture along with your judgements doesn't change the fact that they're your own judgements

Yes it does. By showing what the Bible has to say about the subject that shows that I am informing you about where the Bible stands on the subject. I have not once said " I personaly believe homosexuality or wiccanism or bestiality is wrong " have I ? No I haven't. We are discussing the Bible, not our opinions. Opinion is still all that marg and oldworld have contributed to this, oh except for oldworlds dictionary quoting. There are some here that are legitimately contributing information and some just here to bash some Christians. I would like to see one time on this site, a member of the ATS "team" that are Christian and verbal about it.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:22 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR

reply to post by AotearoaSon

Yes he says if your gay you cant love god . Or follow his work . Or teach his word. Or even be considered a person . Cause they shouldn't even be allowed to exist. At least thats what i take out of it .

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:24 PM by Christian Voice

Are you saying you wouldnt mind a gay preist at your churches summer camp ?

A gay person would be more than welcome at my church. You cannot however be a clergy member and teach the Bible that says homosexuality is wrong and be actively gay.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:28 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR

reply to post by Christian Voice

I quote the dictionary so you dont "intemperate" it however you want.

This is like arguing with the Scientology people. Anything that goes against what you believe is an attack and slander and whatever other word you want to use.

I call it critical thinking . But w/e

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 03:38 PM by an3rkist

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Yes it does. By showing what the Bible has to say about the subject that shows that I am informing you about where the Bible stands on the subject. I have not once said " I personaly believe homosexuality or wiccanism or bestiality is wrong " have I ? No I haven't.

You're using the Bible to justify your own judgements. The Bible doesn't say, "Judge not, unless you use the Bible to do it." It says, "Judge not lest ye be judged." If you say a person can't be a homosexual Christian just because the Bible says homosexuality is a sin, (which you did), you're passing judgement. If you want to inform people about what the Bible says without passing judgement, you need to quote the Bible, then leave your personal judgements out of it. You're information was valid, biblically speaking, but your judgements were there also.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 04:24 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR

I think the term my father used to use was : "delusions of grandeur" . To explain Christianity best.

Noun 1. delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are
delusion, psychotic belief - (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary
megalomania - a psychological state characterized by delusions of grandeur

Some may disagree but it has always stuck with me and rung true. This belief that preaching will change sound minded people decisions and make them "turn" to there way of thinking is just a grab at some sort of "Power"

"Power has a way of undermining judgment, of planting delusions of grandeur in the minds of otherwise sensible people and otherwise sensible nations." - Senator J. William Fulbright, 1966

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 04:55 PM by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
I think the term my father used to use was : "delusions of grandeur" . To explain Christianity best.

Noun 1. delusions of grandeur - a delusion (common in paranoia) that you are much greater and more powerful and influential than you really are
delusion, psychotic belief - (psychology) an erroneous belief that is held in the face of evidence to the contrary
megalomania - a psychological state characterized by delusions of grandeur

Some may disagree but it has always stuck with me and rung true. This belief that preaching will change sound minded people decisions and make them "turn" to there way of thinking is just a grab at some sort of "Power"

Man I am grateful someone was willing to answer my questions when I was a non-believer. You are wrong about it being about power and all, it's done out of genuine concern for your soul and a duty to Christ. I am very conscious that I am powerless to convince you. Only God can really do that, if he wants you he will convince you. As Christians it is our duty to plant seeds. God makes them grow. Now I have a quote for you...

There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” — Herbert Spencer

[edit on 3/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 04:56 PM by beach2197

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by Christian Voice

You just prove my point, funny but anybody that disagree with Cristian fundamentalism are anti- Christian.

Keep the preaching for the church where it belongs.

and anyone that disagrees with Christ is AntiChrist, right? I mean, I'm just following your logic...

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:03 PM by fooffstarr

I don't get why it really matters?

Why spend this much time fighting over whether a religion is based of fact of fiction?

I am a proud atheist, and yet i live my life by a high moral standard and go far out of my way to help my fellow man. Shouldn't you all, regardless of religion, be striving to live your lives in the same way? It isn't 'living like Christ', it's simply being a good person. Spend less time dwelling on who is Christian, Anti-Christian, pagan etc. and just LIVE!

In the end, when you die, you'll know who was right, but until then it is a stalemate. Go and do a good deed for someone today instead of posting more 'exhibits'.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:04 PM by jdposey

My goodness, this has turned into a mess, hasn't it?

I have been reading about everyone's back and forth statements on judgement. Usually, where judgement is found, close by you will find condemnation.

There are some serious words being thrown back and forth here in relation to judgement. If I may, can I put this into perspective? We are aware, perhaps most are anyway, of the Westboro Baptists Church:

www.godhatesfags.com...

So, compare these people in comparison to whom you are talking back and forth with here, and hopefully you will see that these, whom you may consider extreme, are nothing like what you may assume them to be.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:05 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR

reply to post by Bigwhammy

I hope your not saying i haven't done my homework .... Cause you would be a bit surprised ...

I have researched both angles. The only thing i dont get that you do is to repent. So you get to do bad stuff and make up for it with a few hail marrys and i dont . I am prepared for judgment are you?

reply to post by jdposey

Do you see any groups of atheists doing what wesboro does? I think its safe to say they reflect alot of what a regular Christian is afraid to say. I mean there both using the same book to get there "truth" aint they ?

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:11 PM by marg6043

reply to post by jdposey

Glad you bring the subject, because that is exactly one of the problems with conspiracy boards as big as ATS, it does call the attention of all kind of extremist and it is not limited to religious extremist alone.

When you see a wave like you see here is very easy to predict the outcome of the whole mess and why is becoming a mess.

Believe me threads like this one bordering no only on extremism but also in intolerance and fanaticism are very well monitored.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:15 PM by KingJames56

I have a question for all die hard religous people out there, lets say that it truly was god who wrote the bible that you all so valiently believe and follow; how do you know God is better then Satan. Obvisouly if God wrote the bilble he's going to make himselft as this all powerful being that wants to be worshiped because he truly is the evil one who wants you to conform to his rules and beliefs, and he makes the devil seem so evil that if you follow him your soul is doomed for all eternity. Instead of trying to get into heaven by following a god that may or may not even exist, maybe everyone should try to create heaven here on earth.

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:16 PM by Bigwhammy

In the 1800s, Hungarian obstetrician Ignaz Semmelweiss challenged the medical thinking of his day by suggesting that doctors wash their hands and maintain high levels of hygiene when operating or examining patients. When medical staff tried his methods, the high death rate in hospitals plummeted from 12 per cent to just over 1 per cent. However, his superiors ridiculed him so much, even denying him promotion, that he never recovered from the ordeal. His discoveries were appreciated and built on by the great English surgeon Joseph Lister (1827-1912), who revolutionized modern surgery with his use of antiseptics.

source
The Old Testament is about the Jews who God chose as his own people to preserve a line to deliver the messiah Jesus. He gave them very specific instructions so that they would be healthier and stronger than their enemies. In 1440 B.C. the Book of Leviticus was written. No one knew about germs and Bacteria yet, but God did.

Leviticus 15:10-11
10 and whoever touches any of the things that were under him will be unclean till evening; whoever picks up those things must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

11 " 'Anyone the man with a discharge touches without rinsing his hands with water must wash his clothes and bathe with water, and he will be unclean till evening.

[edit on 3/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 05:21 PM by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
reply to post by Bigwhammy

I have researched both angles. The only thing i dont get that you do is to repent. So you get to do bad stuff and make up for it with a few hail marrys and i dont .

Saying Hail Mary's isn't a Christian Belief.