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This topic is in the Religion, Faith, And Theology discussion forum.  (rss)


Non Christians What If The Bible Is True?


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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:28 PM by Christian Voice



well as a non christian it realy dosent matter if the bible is true or not



If the Bible is wrong then Christians have lost nothing. If it is right then we have gained eternity.
Of course no Christian is totally living God's will. We are sinful by nature. My 8 month old son knows exactly when he is doing something he is not supposed to. He will actually wait for me to leave the room to do it. How could we ever live God's will perfectly with that kind of nature? In response to a question in an earlier post,,,, Why did God ask Adam and Eve what they had done ? When your child does wrong, do you not ask him " what were you just doing " It's a parental question. They committed a sin when they ate of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. He gave them a chance immediately to redeem their selves. They could have immediately confessed and accepted whatever happened. But no, Adam pushed the responsibility off on Eve who in turn pushed it off on the serpent, thus beginning a vicious cycle of lying and deceit. That behavior is running rampant today. Everytime someone does something wrong, it's someone elses fault. Oh yeah it's their parents fault, it's some new kind of syndrome. AAHH since the beginning of life on Earth.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:29 PM by NewWorldOver


Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
So you think that even tho im a good person . And do good things help my fellow man . And dont read your bible . God would send me to burn with all these so called sinners . Just cause i failed to read a book .


I am bored to tears with you people.

Not a single person said you were going to burn in hell for not reading the Bible

Are you people really so desperate to squabble over religion that you must resort to this kind of constant flim-flamming?

I see no honor in the activity of atheists anymore. There, I said it. You people are ridiculous.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:29 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


reply to post by Bigwhammy



Yes i was just raised to be a good person. My father was a Christian . He never tried pushing it on me as he saw the hypocrisy in it . My mother was an atheist. She showed me the bible told me to read it and make my own choice. I felt that there were better ways to go about being a good person and couldn't restrict myself to only be good to those that believe what i do . I'll help a gay man just as fast as a Christian. So who's the better person? Me or a guy that would spit on you for not towing the same line?

reply to post by NewWorldOver



Yes your so much better than me . Feel your superiority. Just cause i don't believe what you do. Atheists are ruining the world for you.
Thankfully i don't have to care what you think . I wil continue being a good person .
I don't have an agenda to complete . I just tells it how i sees it.







[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:34 PM by DisabledVet


And here is my evidence proving the bible is just a story:






Please don't be so foolish as to refute my post with attacks against the validity of carbon dating, or that the bible mentions dinosaurs. If you actually READ the bible you would understand that the bible conveniently places the dinosaurs at the time of man, which is a preposterous notion that has been dis-proven time and time again.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:35 PM by NewWorldOver


Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
I felt that there were better ways to go about being a good person and couldn't restrict myself to only be good to those that believe what i do . I'll help a gay man just as fast as a Christian. So who's the better person?


This is what I'm talking about bro.

You atheists are nothing but hot-air sometimes. Who said you cannot be good to non-Christians? Who said you cannot be good to the gay community???

WHO?

Do you realize that Christ said BE GOOD TO EVERYONE? Do you realize that is the MAIN principle of Christianity?

Yet you seem to think Christianity is a 'club' and you don't want to be part of the club. That's fine! There shouldn't BE a club and you shouldn't be ASSUMING things like you do.

But you do. Everyone does. They spout things about religion that are completely unfounded and it's just ridiculously hard to take you people seriously anymore .



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:35 PM by marg6043


reply to post by Bigwhammy



I got the feeling that you think I am a very young person, sorry to burst your bubble but my generation is not part of your tube and MTV.

Anyway still I have not conspiracy to prove to you and your preaching hardly proves anything beside your own interpretation of Religious text and what you think is the right way to view religion.

I am exposing you for what you are, another religious pusher in ATS.

That is your agenda. not conspiracy really because you have none.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:35 PM by projectvxn


The force that binds mans eyes from seeing the validity of the Bible is the establishment of Man. The Bible is incredibly accurate, it's just hard to weed through all the allegory and cryptic analogies. Try drawing parallels between the Bible and how we scientifically understand the universe...And you'll wind up with the same painting.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:38 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


reply to post by NewWorldOver



Ok . Like i said . Your gonna think you win no matter what . If Christians were as good as they think . Everyone would have equal rights. There would be no wars. No poverty No big wonder why .

Thankfully your here to save the day tho.

But you do. Everyone does. They spout things about religion that are completely unfounded and it's just ridiculously hard to take you people seriously anymore .


If you quote the bible at all your doing the same thing . Unfounded spouting.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:38 PM by Bigwhammy


reply to post by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR



Where is this spitting on people coming from? That's not Christian... We don't set the standard - hat's th point. I don't agree with homosexuality but I don't hate them or spit on them. In fact what you might call "being judged" is done out of love not a desire to point out fault. Most Christians are motivated by a desire to help and nuture their fellow man. It is not about being right for the sake of winning an argument. It is about God and eternity.

I think there is a conspiracy to discredit Gods word. I don't really expect I will convert anyone here but I hope I might make someone take a harder look. That's about it. Don't risk eternity on a Youtube video OK.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:39 PM by Christian Voice


I have to say, I've never spit on a homosexual before. What do you consider to be good? What laws to you confide yourself to? Man's laws change every day. Are you a good person because you conform to evry one of them and don't break them? I'm just curious. You probably are a very decent person and probably a great person to hang out with. I just don't understand something. You can obey laws that your equals put on you ( I.E. man ) but can't even believe that there is something or someone much bigger than us that made us and dictates the laws for his creation? When you were a kid, who made the rules in your house? our siblings or your parents? Who made their rules? And theirs? and so forth? Just all of the sudden we grew lungs and arms and legs and crawled out of the water stood upright and said hay, we need laws and rules. I won't even get started on the whole evolution debate though.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:40 PM by Christian Voice



I am exposing you for what you are, another religious pusher in ATS.


I would have to expose you for having an anti-Christian agenda and according to the original posting you are the conspirater.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:41 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


reply to post by Christian Voice



It wasn't meant literally sheesh. By saying there sinners and not helping them have equal rights and man the crap the priests say. Is spitting on them . Turning a blind eye or not being part of the solution to these things make you just as bad.

But it always has been about you guys taking things too literally hasn't it?

Man will never move forward as long as 1 person is oppressed. And as far as i can see your church still supports oppression. Just like it always has.

Anyway this isnt about "If the bible is true or not" Its about "Are the parts of the bible i cherry pick to follow true or not"

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:42 PM by marg6043


reply to post by projectvxn



Actually the historical value of the bible is what the author wanted to bring as a conspiracy with his OP.

But later he changed while preaching to prove that the myth and lore of the bible is true.

That is where the problem seems to be, is not that is historical viable but that the myth and lore within is not.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:46 PM by marg6043


reply to post by Christian Voice



You just prove my point, funny but anybody that disagree with Cristian fundamentalism are anti- Christian.

Keep the preaching for the church where it belongs.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:48 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


reply to post by Christian Voice



Funny i thought you didnt judge people ? Sure looks like you guys do ALLOT of judging in this thread . Look at NWO's Posts . I'm an atheist (agnostic?) . I'm allowed to judge

Trumped by your own hand.

Even if we were building a huge conspiracy around you you don't have the right (by your own teachings) to decide that . I believe its judge not.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:50 PM by Bigwhammy


reply to post by marg6043



Not really.. I say it's all viable. There's no myth and no lore. Your assertion that there is myth and lore IS the conspiracy I am talking about.

The historical evidence presented. The scientific evidence presented. The fulfilled prophecy presented all serve to support its truthfulness.

No it doesn't prove everything, but it shows a track record of accuracy and serves to cast doubt on your claims of lore and myth.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 01:51 PM by Christian Voice



Please don't be so foolish as to refute my post with attacks against the validity of carbon dating, or that the bible mentions dinosaurs. If you actually READ the bible you would understand that the bible conveniently places the dinosaurs at the time of man, which is a preposterous notion that has been dis-proven time and time again.



Evolutionists claim that dinosaurs evolved over millions of years. They imagine that one kind of animal slowly changed over long periods of time to become a different kind of animal. For instance, they believe that amphibians changed into reptiles (including dinosaurs) by this gradual process. This would mean, of course, that there would have been millions of creatures during that time that would be ‘in between,’ as amphibians evolved into reptiles. Evidence of these ‘transitional forms,’ as they are called, should be abundant. However, many fossil experts admit that not one unquestionable transitional form between any group of creatures and another has been found anywhere. If dinosaurs evolved from amphibians, there should be, for example, fossil evidence of animals that are part dinosaur and part something else. However, there is no proof of this anywhere. In fact, if you go into any museum you will see fossils of dinosaurs that are 100% dinosaur, not something in between. There are no 25%, 50%, 75%, or even 99% dinosaurs—they are all 100% dinosaur!

The Bible tells us that God created all of the land animals on the sixth day of creation. As dinosaurs were land animals, they must have been made on this day, alongside Adam and Eve, who were also created on Day Six (Genesis 1:24-31). If God designed and created dinosaurs, they would have been fully functional, designed to do what they were created for, and would have been 100% dinosaur. This fits exactly with the evidence from the fossil record.

Evolutionists declare that no man ever lived alongside dinosaurs. The Bible, however, makes it plain that dinosaurs and people must have lived together. Actually, as we will soon see, there is a lot of evidence for this

The Bible teaches (in Genesis 1:29-30) that the original animals (and the first humans) were commanded to be vegetarian. There were no meat eaters in the original creation. Furthermore, there was no death. It was an unblemished world, with Adam and Eve and animals (including dinosaurs) living in perfect harmony, eating only plants.

Sadly, it did not stay this way for very long. Adam rebelled against his Creator, bringing sin into the world (Genesis 3:1-7; Romans 5:12). Because of this rebellion, Adam, and thus all of his descendants (you and me), gave up the right to live with a Holy (sinless) and just God. God therefore judged sin with death.

The Bible plainly teaches from Genesis to Revelation that there was no death of animals or humans before Adam sinned. (Consider just a few of the many passages, such as: Romans 5:12; Genesis 2:17; Genesis 1:29-30; Romans 8:20-22; Acts 3:21; Hebrews 9:22; I Corinthians 15; Revelation 21:1-4; Revelation 22:3.) This means there could not have been any animal fossils (and no dinosaur bones) before sin.

After Adam’s sin, animals and people started to die. It was now a different world, one of death and strife. A world that was once beautiful now suffered under the curse placed upon it by the Creator (Genesis 3:14-19). But a promise was given (Genesis 3:15) that God would provide a way for the penalty of sin to be paid so there would be a way for man to come back to God.

In Genesis 6, we read that all flesh (man and animals) had ‘corrupted his way upon the Earth’ (Genesis 6:12). Perhaps people and animals were killing each other; maybe dinosaurs had started killing other animals and humans. In any case, the Bible describes the world as ‘wicked.’

Because of this wickedness, God warned a godly man named Noah that He was going to destroy the world with a Flood (Genesis 6:13). God therefore commanded him to build a great ship (the Ark) so that all the kinds of land animals (which must have included dinosaurs) and Noah’s family could survive on board while the Flood destroyed the entire Earth (Genesis 6:14-20).

Some people think that dinosaurs were too big, or there were too many of them, to go on this Ark. However, there were not very many different kinds of dinosaurs. There are certainly hundreds of dinosaur names, but many of these were given to just a bit of bone or skeletons of the same dinosaur found in other countries. It is also reasonable to assume that different sizes, varieties, and sexes of the same kind of dinosaur have ended up with different names. For example, look at the many different varieties and sizes of dogs, but they are all the same kind-the dog kind! In reality, there may have been fewer than 50 kinds of dinosaurs.

God sent two of every (seven of some) land animal into the Ark (Genesis 7:2-3; 7:8-9)—there were no exceptions. Therefore, dinosaurs must have been on the Ark. Even though there was ample room in the huge ship for large animals, perhaps God sent young adults into the Ark that still had plenty of room for them to grow.

Well, what happened to all the land animals that did not go on the Ark? Very simply, they drowned. Many would have been covered with tons of mud as the rampaging water covered the land (Genesis 7:11-12,19). Because of this quick burial, many of the animals would have been preserved as fossils. If this happened, you would expect to find evidence of billions of dead things buried in rock layers (formed from this mud) all over the Earth. This is exactly what you do find.

By the way, the Flood of Noah’s day probably occurred just over 4,500 years ago. Creationists believe that this event formed many of the fossil layers around the Earth. (Additional fossil layers were formed by other floods as the Earth settled down after the great Flood.) Thus, the dinosaur fossils which were formed as a result of this Flood were probably formed about 4,500 years ago, not millions of years ago.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 02:00 PM by marg6043


reply to post by Christian Voice



So you are young earth believer, interesting, no wonder you can not see beyond the bible texts.

Where you will be without the bible, now I see why is so important to prove the bible as the only book of true, you own believes depend on it.



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 02:07 PM by an3rkist


Originally posted by beach2197
I do not have to prove anything to you. I can also say, you prove to me that your far-out claim is true. You saying its all a myth is eitiher an opinion either of your own or you borrow it from other claimed "important men".


I'm starting to wonder if you've even read any of my posts or if you just jumped to a bunch of unwarranted and bigoted conclusions based on the fact that I don't believe what you believe. I have not made any far-out claims, such as the one you mentioned. All I've done is ask questions and give opinions, none of which I claimed to be fact. Therefore, I have nothing to prove, whereas you do.


It's amazing how much better you feel when you discover something on your own other than taking some other person's word for it. God......wait, I'm sorry, Science gave you a brain, put it to use.


Then why do you rely on the words of a bunch of old dead guys as your proof? You claim that we should find out for ourselves, yet want to convince us with claims of other people.

And i didn't single you out alone for bashing anyone. I was generalizing that some aethiests/non-believers usually end up bashing the christians for something.....begging for "proof" of this and that, when they have the power to look it up themselves


Asking for proof is bashing? Then you have hypocritized yourself...and not only on that level.

If you want to discuss the topic, I and others have been doing so. All you have been doing is "bashing" those who have beliefs contrary to your own. Telling us you're right, then telling us you're too lazy or don't have the ability to tell us why, is not contributing anything to the discussion. It's things such as those that you've said that give the whole of Christianity stereotypes such as "hypocrite", "bigot", "close-minded".

"I like your Christ; I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ." -Gandhi

[edit on 8/3/08 by an3rkist]



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reply posted on 8-3-2008 @ 02:07 PM by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


reply to post by marg6043



The word of the day is

COdependent


co·de·pend·ent /ˌkoʊdɪˈpɛndənt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[koh-di-pen-duhnt] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. of or pertaining to a relationship in which one person is physically or psychologically addicted, as to alcohol or gambling, and the other person is psychologically dependent on the first in an unhealthy way.
–noun
2. one who is codependent or in a codependent relationship.


These people cant survive without each other. So they just try to recruit as many as they can .



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