Non Christians What If The Bible Is True?

The reason I don't find the Bible to be anything of real spiritual value is because it's a book written by "Men". No conspiracy theory involved just a bunch of guys who were good at telling stories. The ten commandments are about all I agree with in the Chirstian faith, stop looking so far into things and take a better look at yourselves. What are my morals? What can I do to help others? Religion only adds more boundaries then it ever would take away.

reply to post by marg6043



You proved it for me. Thanks!

Only in this context. No I can show the conspiracy for you.

The movie Zeitgeist is a good example. It contends the bible is loosely based on other stories form the past. It uses second rate scholarship and poor arguments, but because it is popular with young people it is widely accepted. There's a trend with the NWO conspiracy gurus to use the Roman Catholic domination in the middle ages to discredit the Bible and relegate Christianity to some form of mind control. That is the conspiracy and we have are producing evidence to show that it is a lie. The very nature of the conspiracy is to propagate falsehood. You call it preaching, we call it debunking.






[edit on 3/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

reply to post by Bigwhammy


You really need that crutch to be a good person dont you ? If it were not for the book where would you be really? Do you think your life would be different if you never read it ? Would you be an evil sodomizing gay? You know thats what you are saying in not so many words.

Originally posted by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR
You really need that crutch to be a good person dont you ?

How in the world did you draw that out of BW's comment about Zeitgeist, the NWO, and the Inquisition?

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
reply to post by marg6043

 

You proved it for me. Thanks!

Only in this context. No I can show the conspiracy for you.

The movie Zeitgeist is a good example. It contends the bible is loosely based on other stories form the past. It uses second rate scholarship and poor arguments, but because it is popular with young people it is widely accepted. There's a trend with the NWO conspiracy gurus to use the Roman Catholic domination in the middle ages to discredit the Bible and relegate Christianity to some form of mind control. That is the conspiracy and we have are producing evidence to show that it is a lie. The very nature of the conspiracy is to propagate falsehood. You call it preaching, we call it debunking.
[edit on 3/8/2008 by Bigwhammy]

So, are you saying that Christianity isn't based on numerous Pagan rituals and beliefs?

Zeitgeist, while entertaining, also doesn't back as full truth, but at least we admit that.

I drew that out of the discussion about the bible and preaching. It wasn't a reply to that specific post .

Sorry my point is who cares what the bible says. Do good, be a good person . And the world would be better off.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

heres my thoughts.

i accept jesus's teachings,he was one of the wisest,most selfless people to ever exist,he is what all we should aspire to be.if more people were like him most of the worlds problems would be solved.he may or may not have been sent by a higher force,i dont know,but if he was i hope he is sent down again soon.

yet i cannot accept all the bible says,it was written for a time long ago and world has changed alot,perhaps we await a new bible,the new words of god for a much different and complicated world.

i view christiany as a positive force,i applaud there work with charity and the good they do.my aunt is one and she always helps me when i need it.yet i believe there is some stigma by christian towards non christians.just because we dont believe exactly the things you do does not mean were against you or we are sinners,so just be nicer,just focusing on making people better,making them help the world,just like jesus did and perhaps thered be less conflict.

on the other hand it is pretty fashionable to bash christians,i understand that you see it alot,yet we all get bashed for our beliefs no matter what they are,theres always someone there to have a go at you for what you believe.my advice is turn the other cheak when they are bashing,dont get angry at them,there just mortals who are clearly very imperfect!

focus on building positive relationship with all humans,focus on bringing out the good in all people,thats what we want isnt it?,a world full of goodness.

reply to post by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


or an axe murdering crossdresser

That doesn't insult me at all. Maybe I would be... it's possible. Thank God I do read the Bible! Even more that I pray! Indeed! and I do still struggle with sin. You never coast up hill. Only down... Spiritual growth is hard work. I firmly believe if you do not struggle against sin, it is because you are sold out to it.
Before I was saved, I thought I was a "good" person... but now I know that I wasn't what I thought. That is why the Bible is so important. You need a standard outside of yourself - if you don't have one ; then you can just make it up as you go along to suit yourself. That amounts to nothing at all.

reply to post by an3rkist


I do not have to prove anything to you. I can also say, you prove to me that your far-out claim is true. You saying its all a myth is eitiher an opinion either of your own or you borrow it from other claimed "important men". I made "evidence" in another thread, if you want to search for it, go get it. The evidence is in historical documents. If you know how to use the internet, then go search for them yourself. It's amazing how much better you feel when you discover something on your own other than taking some other person's word for it. God......wait, I'm sorry, Science gave you a brain, put it to use.
And i didn't single you out alone for bashing anyone. I was generalizing that some aethiests/non-believers usually end up bashing the christians for something.....begging for "proof" of this and that, when they have the power to look it up themselves

reply to post by Bigwhammy


What? All that and you said nothing. If you need a crutch . Thats fine. But if you cant admit you could be wrong. Then you are delusional. You could always be wrong.

If you were not a good person before your not one now . You just have something that makes you feel better about being a bad person. Like paying reparations didn't make slavery not happen.


[edit on 8-3-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

I haven't read all of the responses to the thread, and am not sure if it has changed direction, but I am still going to answer the question in the title:

Non-Christians, what if the Bible is true?

Easy. I would hope that this God would be as loving as he is supposed to be. Any loving God would understand the turmoil and difficult decisions we as humans are faced with.

That being said, I certainly wouldn't think any loving God would base our entry to Heaven (or Hell) based on whether or not we went to church. And I would hope he would not base it on whether or not we prayed - especially since many Christian prayers are so vein it almost seems sinful.

With that being said, one would hope that this Lord would judge people based on their actions and not their lacking of worship.

Considering that being vein is one of the deadly sins, I would hope this God does not suffer from it. Sending people to Hell for not worshiping would be the greatest act of vanity the world has ever seen.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by Sublime620]

reply to post by welivefortheson



While I am unsure if his actual existance, I do believe that he left morals that I do follow.

My main point that I want to state in this thread is that our society is splitting. Some go forward to progress while others stay behind and cling to bronze age beliefs. In this age we need to examine what we once believed and what we believe now and see how much is factual. You see it now how Fundamentalist Christians are against gay rights, stem cell research, and reject scientific ideas of evolution.


If we are to move foward in society, we need to seperate fact from fiction and accept truth as our only doctrine.



[edit on 8-3-2008 by truthsetfree2009]

reply to post by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR


Just wanted to say that I love the signature about 2012! That's awesome!!!!!

reply to post by truthsetfree2009


Christianity is based on the Old Testament law of the Jews as fufilled by Jesus Christ. Similarities to other religions are just generalizations or the work of other "Gods" who set up false religions. I covered this way back in the thread when I talked about the angels or "gods" in the divine council. See this post here: www.abovetopsecret.com...
Read the paper by Dr Heiser and you will understand where your other pagan Gods come from and why they seem similar,

The Bible is no truer than any other religious book. The Koran, the I Ching, the Bible, etc; they are all imperfect attempts by individual cultures to communicate a common numinous experience. There is only one 'God' and Western culture does not have a monopoly on the truth. To believe that the Bible is truer than other religions is delusion. It's self-brain-washing.

Also much of the Bible was written by people with selfish agendas. After Jesus died, Christianity became a money/power-making venture. It started with Paul. Paul was the point at which Jusus' teaching were hijacked and turned into a business. He made a bunch of stuff up (the resurrection, the iconic worshiping of the cross) and suppressed the teaching of James who was Jesus' brother and right-hand man. As such, the bible is not representative of Jesus' views or those that were closest to him. Paul is the true father of modern-Christianity. I don't think Jesus would be pleased.

After that Christianity became the Holy-Roman Empire and then the Vatican, then onto the various evangelical TV crooks fleecing their flocks for cash etc.

The bottom line is, learn to think for yourself. Don't let others do it for you. Don't accept anything on blind-faith.


[edit on 8-3-2008 by rizla]

(Sorry, I didn't read all the comments, because there were 10 pages of them)
Anyway: If the bible is true, then I'm going to hell probably. I live a good, moral life, and the bible speaks of "other sheep" who will get into heaven, but I don't know if I qualify. I'm an agnostic heretic by the way. Meaning: I don't know what's out there, but Christianity failed me.

[edit on 3/8/2008 by MostlyHarmless]

everyone is overlooking the big picture here. If the bible is true or not shouldn't be the ? Revelations is about the U.S.and it being distroyed.IF the bible is true ,G-d is going to distroy the U.S. to prove he is real and all should go back to everyone accepting him as thier savior ... if it isn't real , then the elite are just using it to get control of the world... either way the U.S is on the loosing end of the stick, IMO as discribed in the bible the mystery babalon = U.S.

I do pray im wrong in this but it doesn't look good

reply to post by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR



OK I could be wrong. I'm not using you standard for "good".

I believe the Bible. If you don't have a Biblical context you don't understand what I mean when I say "good person". No one is a "good person". Sounds harsh huh? Well i am not using a humanistic standard - I believe there are very compelling reasons to believe the Bible is Gods revelation to man. And by his standard no one is a "good person."

You should read the Book of Romans


Rom 3:9-12
9What shall we conclude then? Are we any better? Not at all! We have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under sin. 10As it is written:
"There is no one righteous, not even one;
11there is no one who understands,
no one who seeks God.
12All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one."

I am having a hard time understanding a few things. If you choose not to believe what the Bible says, don't. But why is it so easy to believe a fictional Asimov novel, or a fictional Davinci code movie? Tom hanks and the author Dan Brown both acknowledged that it is a fictional story. It is sold in the fiction section. The Bible is sold in the reference section.
People can believe in evolution ( a series of numerous coincidences and chance happenings ), aliens from outer space, other dimensions, ability to consiously leave your physical body to visit some other plane of reality, but not in the Bible. HHHMMM. The Bible says NO! you can't. You can't do some stuff. You can't have sex outside of marriage ! You can't engage in homosexual sex ! You can't lie ! You can't committ adultery ( yes and even with a spouses permission it's still adultery ) ! You can't have sex with animals ! You can't be greedy ! You can't get drunk !
It's really starting to make sense.

Originally posted by Lokey13
The reason I don't find the Bible to be anything of real spiritual value is because it's a book written by "Men". No conspiracy theory involved just a bunch of guys who were good at telling stories.

If you ask me, statements like these are a red flag. Atheists or non-religious people tend to think that they can dismiss entire collections of ancient script by calling them 'stories'.

Which is really a sign of utter inexperience with religious texts. You don't have to believe the bible or any other religious text, but if you haven't read them, calling them 'stories' just sounds plain ignorant. That's like people calling the Godfather just a silly play. It's quite a pompous statement.

And although it may be hard to believe, plenty of philosophers have proven their capability at producing books of 'real spiritual value.'