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Christians who only believe in the NT?

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posted on Mar, 7 2008 @ 03:24 PM
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Hi,

This thread is for Christians who believe in the NT, but think that the OT doesn't really apply to their belief. Hence, Jesus Christ's appearance created a new standard and supersedes the "law" of the OT.

I'd like to find out why it's OK to believe in one, but not the other. I certainly have a biased opinion about this subject, but I have a pure desire to learn and understand where other opinions come from.

Please refrain from labeling me as a non-believer, Bible basher.



posted on Mar, 7 2008 @ 03:26 PM
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reply to post by crestone
 


Hebrews 8:6-13, you can read it here.



posted on Mar, 7 2008 @ 03:57 PM
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reply to post by chromatico
 


That's right. The old testament is the story of the Jews. It was only for the Jews, period. Jesus fufilled the law and we have a new covenant with god to replace the one made with Abraham in the OT. It's like a new contract for a sports star, get it? That hebrews 8 explains it.
reply to post by crestone
 


Crestone consider if there might be a .0001 % chance all these millions of Christians are right and eternity is at stake.

Eternity is longer than I can comprehend.

Wouldn't it be wise to at least read and study it a bit before making up ones mind based.

Personally before I believed my main problem was I didn't want to follow the rules. But after some study the rules actually make sense, and I don't have to give anything up that is worth keeping.


There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments, and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” -herbert spencer

Do a little Bible study...









[edit on 3/7/2008 by Bigwhammy]



posted on Mar, 7 2008 @ 05:10 PM
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Tired and emotional ...

might come back and reply later

apologize to the mods and members for this now useless post

[edit on 3/7/08 by FreeThinkerIdealist]



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by crestone
Hi,

This thread is for Christians who believe in the NT, but think that the OT doesn't really apply to their belief. Hence, Jesus Christ's appearance created a new standard and supersedes the "law" of the OT.

I'd like to find out why it's OK to believe in one, but not the other. I certainly have a biased opinion about this subject, but I have a pure desire to learn and understand where other opinions come from.

Please refrain from labeling me as a non-believer, Bible basher.


I am one of those Christians! The OT has only very limited applicability to Christians, and its value is mostly historical, that is to say, it's about showing the basis out of which Christian faith grew.
Vicky



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 04:06 AM
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If it wasn't for Jesus' reframe to the woman at the well, about God being spirit and truth, available to anyone who prays or worships (or appreciates) in spirit and in truth, the new frame being everywhere and anywhere (neither in the temple or on the mountain) - then I'd be concerned about whether even Jesus himself (and the spirit of God informing him) was meant for the Gentiles, and not just the Jews.
Annecdote: Then when the desciples returned to say they had some food and encouraged him to eat and he said to them that he had food they didn't know about, and then when they wondered who'd brought him food (duh) he said his food was to do the will of the one who sent him, and then he gestures to the fields and points out that even then they were already ripe for harvest, and that they (the desciples) had come into an inheritance that they did not work for, where sower and reaper rejoice together, etc. - it has been suggested that he was referring to the townspeople the woman had ran to (having now completely forgotten about the water!), seen now coming across the field, after his exchange with her, to see what all the fuss she was making was about.


John 4
Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman
1 Now Jesus learned that the Pharisees had heard that he was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John— 2 although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples. 3 So he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee.
4 Now he had to go through Samaria. 5 So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph. 6 Jacob’s well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about noon.

7 When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, “Will you give me a drink?” 8 (His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9 The Samaritan woman said to him, “You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?” (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.[a])

10 Jesus answered her, “If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water.”

11 “Sir,” the woman said, “you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water? 12 Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his livestock?”

13 Jesus answered, “Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again, 14 but whoever drinks the water I give them will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give them will become in them a spring of water welling up to eternal life.”

15 The woman said to him, “Sir, give me this water so that I won’t get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water.”

16 He told her, “Go, call your husband and come back.”

17 “I have no husband,” she replied.

Jesus said to her, “You are right when you say you have no husband. 18 The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true.”

19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet. 20 Our ancestors worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”

21 “Woman,” Jesus replied, “believe me, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem. 22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. 24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in the Spirit and in truth.”

25 The woman said, “I know that Messiah” (called Christ) “is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us.”

26 Then Jesus declared, “I, the one speaking to you—I am he.”

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus
27 Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, “What do you want?” or “Why are you talking with her?”
28 Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29 “Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Messiah?” 30 They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31 Meanwhile his disciples urged him, “Rabbi, eat something.”

32 But he said to them, “I have food to eat that you know nothing about.”

33 Then his disciples said to each other, “Could someone have brought him food?”

34 “My food,” said Jesus, “is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work. 35 Don’t you have a saying, ‘It’s still four months until harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. 36 Even now the one who reaps draws a wage and harvests a crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together. 37 Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. 38 I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor.”

Many Samaritans Believe
39 Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman’s testimony, “He told me everything I ever did.” 40 So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days. 41 And because of his words many more became believers.

Sameritans no less, which from his perspective as a Jew, is meaningful.

What a wonderful thing this is!



posted on Dec, 28 2010 @ 04:22 AM
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reply to post by chromatico
 


I read the link you posted with some interest.
What does the first bit mean?

The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah.

That sounds like the new covenant is for a pretty specific group of people. Why are people saying that it applies to all Christians?

I don't really know how else you could interpret something so specific
edit on 28-12-2010 by davespanners because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 11:12 PM
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reply to post by davespanners
 


When the Jews rejected their Messiah, they were blinded for a time while the offer was opened up to Gentiles, this is the time we are in, from the resurrection to current. The apostle Paul explains that is no longer a national deal, Non Jews, gentiles, are described as grafted in



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 02:48 AM
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reply to post by crestone
 


Sure, Christians are no longer bound by "the law of sin and death", but this only means we are no longer bound by the 613 Mosaic laws. Ya'hshuah came as a "fullfillment of the law", the final sacrifice, but the OT is still applicable. The psalms, proverbs, and prophets contain indispensible wisdom that translates into this day. One also must understand the OT in order to fully understand the NT. If you stick to one or the other, you only have part of the picture. You will also find that many prophecies in the Bible are utterly dependent on eachother. Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelations go hand in hand. The best way to understand them is to put them together.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 04:55 AM
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I am a Christian. There is no way to only take the NT and not the OT.... Jesus qoutes from the OT numerous times...his last quote was from Psalm 22...My God, My God...why has Thou forsaken me?...while He was on the cross.... and actually illustrated there in the verses.

The very coming and birth and resurrection and return of Jesus is prophesied in the OT.

The crucifiction is illustrated in the OT....even the use of the blood of the Lamb and the placing of the blood on the door during the Passover...left to right and above mimics the cross...all to escape death.

The Book of Revelation to John cannot be understood in symbolism without reference to the OT.

The very authenticity of Jesus linage comes from the OT... paternal/David...maternal/Levite.

Many plain spoken Biblical scholars and preachers call this ..."treating the Bible like the Golden Corral Buffet...you pick and choose what you want to consume"...it doesn't work like that. You either take it all or you take nothing.

The last warning of John in Revelation was to neither add, not TAKE AWAY from God's Holy Word.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by crestone
Hi,

This thread is for Christians who believe in the NT, but think that the OT doesn't really apply to their belief. Hence, Jesus Christ's appearance created a new standard and supersedes the "law" of the OT.

I'd like to find out why it's OK to believe in one, but not the other. I certainly have a biased opinion about this subject, but I have a pure desire to learn and understand where other opinions come from.

Please refrain from labeling me as a non-believer, Bible basher.



"Testament" means "Covenant".

We operate under the new covenant with God via Christ's death and payment for sin. Christ nailed the old covenant to His cross figuratively. (Col. 2:14) No longer the covenant of sacrifice, but the covenant of grace. Jeremiah (OT) prophesies the future "death" of the old covenant in chapter 33:

"Behold, the days come, saith Jehovah, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was a husband unto them, saith Jehovah."

Hebrews 12:24 tells of the birth of the new covenant with God through Jesus Christ:

"And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel."

The Old and New Covenants (Testaments)



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by davespanners
 



That sounds like the new covenant is for a pretty specific group of people. Why are people saying that it applies to all Christians?


It is offered to the Jews first, many reject it. The gentiles have been "grafted in" to the olive tree. Paul is the one who wrote this, and it was endorsed by Peter. Both were Jews.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by kallisti36
reply to post by crestone
 


Sure, Christians are no longer bound by "the law of sin and death", but this only means we are no longer bound by the 613 Mosaic laws. Ya'hshuah came as a "fullfillment of the law", the final sacrifice, but the OT is still applicable. The psalms, proverbs, and prophets contain indispensible wisdom that translates into this day. One also must understand the OT in order to fully understand the NT. If you stick to one or the other, you only have part of the picture. You will also find that many prophecies in the Bible are utterly dependent on eachother. Daniel, Ezekiel, and Revelations go hand in hand. The best way to understand them is to put them together.


I took the OP to mean why are Christians not bound by the OT in regards to the Mosaic law. Of course much of the OT is necessary, 2/3s of it's prophesies are yet to be fulfilled.



posted on Jan, 17 2011 @ 01:39 PM
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Oh I was doing some study and I remembered this thread as I read this passage:


Romans 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are
descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham
because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be
named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children
of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Which answers the question about how the covenant is extended to non Jews.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 12:24 AM
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here's a few that may help

there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses. And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they-Acts15

And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.-Gal3

Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.



posted on Jan, 18 2011 @ 07:08 PM
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a few more that may as well

For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever.-Rom9

concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.-Rom11

For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

Mercy triumphs over judgment.-Jas2



posted on Feb, 1 2011 @ 11:41 PM
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Many Christians speak that Christianity is right and your religion is wrong. But that’s not what its’ about. Jesus's message is about love and peace.

Luke 12:10 “And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blaspheme against the Holy ghost it shall not be forgiven”

Matthew 12:31 “Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.”

Many religions don’t have Jesus and God on the same level. The holy ghost , God and Jesus are one in the Christian faith. But Jesus says to us that disrespecting him can be forgiven. Wow

John 15:14-15:15 “Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth; but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.”

I believe many people in this country tend to think they have the answer instead of truly researching. (X + Y= Your answer) (example John Doe has his mind made up the about Christianity before he does research) Leaving you searching for answers that make your statement true, instead of seeking the truth. This is the true meaning of ignorance. ( A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.)
Albert Einstein

Proof the bible in its original text is true.
www.pcez.com...

www.theomatics.net...







 
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