This is not a chemtrail! Atmospheric Phenomenen explained, page 9
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reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 05:07 PM by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by carole9999
The only part of this I find truly unusual is that the same people come out every single time there is a mention of this issue with vehemently zealous (attack mode), then they are hardly never on ATS--until the next time. Now that's odd.


The same can be said for the pro- chemtrail side. It seems to be the same argument and evidence. For example, the over use of the German chaff thing. They didnt admit to spraying. It was a mention of the use of chaff that was deflecting weather watch radar pulses, nothing about spraying chemicals in the sky. And then theres photographic evidence, you take a picture of a trail in the sky, it hangs around for about an hour, you have no idea why, due to either lack of knowledge in meteorology or upper air atmospherics, lack of research or just plain ignorance, so its automatically assumed that it has to be a government cover up of some type. Then the matter is fueled by conspiracy nuts like Jeff Rense, Art Bell and Dr Deagle (the latter who claims to be involved in every conspiracy theory for the last 40 years, and had his medical license revoked), who have no background in meteorology, environmental science or anything in the physical science area, but produce biased reports on the sampling of some goo they found on the ground. And by the way, the offical lab report, not the scientists report, stated that there was no evidence that the goo came from a plane

And you wonder why people get angry with you




reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 05:48 PM by StellarX
Originally posted by weedwhacker
StellarX, regarding your post, bottom of page 7, first picture on top...

'chemtrail'?!?!?! Do you mean those compact, less than 200-foot-wide (66 metre) CONTRAILS? The ones that clearly show the passage of at least three commercial jets, who all were flying the same Airways, and turned at the same VOR...whilst the upper winds, differing winds, depending on altitude, showed the drift of the persistent CONTRAILS? Are those what you are pointing out?


Indeed. So your admitting that commercial planes are suddenly flying in formations these days?

So, somehow, a skinny 'chemtrail' at 35,000 feet will somehow affect something on the ground?!? How? I daresay, if someone wanted to spray us with chemicals, they would do it at a much lower altitude.


Why presume that i believe they are trying to poison us with chemicals from the sky when they have proven themselves quit adept and efficient by putting fluoride in drinking water? I am fairly confident that any adverse health effects chem trails cause are entirely incidental.

How many cropduster airplanes have you seen dusting crops from 35,000 feet? Or, 20,000 feet? Or even 10,000 feet?


Obviously non unless computer technology and information processing has developed to such a state that they can predict downwind fallout patterns to the acre.

Perhaps less Internet nonsense and moe science would be in order here...


Sure so here is some more more interesting internet 'nonsense'.

One unique type of cloud is manmade. Contrails occur when exhaust from jet engines condenses. A narrow line of moisture makes up the contrail. Winds eventually dissipate it; in some instances conditions permit the contrail to survive for many minutes (their straight lines do distort). Contrails are believed to affect weather by raising both short and long-term temperatures (one estimate is for about a third of a degree per decade). Here is a MODIS image taken over the southeast U.S. on January 29, 2004 showing a large number of contrails (at times more than 2000 planes are over the North American continent at any one time):

rst.gsfc.nasa.gov...


The condensation trails (contrails) that form in the wake of high-flying jets are another interesting example. These cylindrical clouds have variable lifetimes and water concentrations depending on environmental conditions. In some cases the contrails can persist for many minutes. But they do slowly diffuse, much like the smoke plume emitted by an acrobatic aircraft

www.sciam.com...


Contrail formation typically occurs in the upper Troposphere between nine and twelve kilometers is height with temperatures ranging between -35ƒC and -55ƒC (Jensen e. al. 1998, Schrader 1997). Most contrails last on the order of seconds to a few minutes and only a small minority will last for hours as in the contrails photographed (Jensen et. al. 1998). A newly formed contrail will be approximately one kilometer wide and one-half a kilometer tall. As a contrail evolves, it grows greatly in the horizontal plane sometimes extending over 20 kilometers in width (Spinhirne et al. 1998). Examples of this horizontal evolution is shown in the photograph. Contrails can also be 100ís of kilometers long given the right atmospheric conditions and a plane on a steady course.

Long lasting contrails like the ones observed usually occur in parts of the sky that have preexisting patches of cirrus clouds. Since the cirrus clouds are formed of ice crystals like the contrails, cirrus clouds in a region of the sky suggests supersaturation with respect to ice and sufficient heterogeneous nuclei for ice crystals to form (Jenson et al. 1998). The GOES-8 satellite photographs, Figure 3 and Figure 4, taken at approximately at the same time as the contrails were present shows significant cirrus clouds around the Norman area providing a condition necessary for contrail persistence.

students.ou.edu...


Should i move on to how the supposed experts admits that contrails are very badly understood atmospheric phenomenon?

Stellar


reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 06:19 PM by OzWeatherman
reply to post by StellarX


Have you heard of the term supersaturation?

You are right winds do disperse (and or shear) clouds. But it doesnt always lead to the destruction of clouds. Supersaturation occurs when you add more water into an already moist environement. (ie, water vapour products from aircraft exhaust). The extra water attaches itself to the already present water nuclei increasing the mass and creating a larger ice crystal. Air moves those ice crystals and gathers more as it moves, hence increasing the ice crystal size and creating a layer over the sky, turning it into a cloud known to us weather guys as, cirrostratus.

So you are half right on the dispersion thing. If there is not enough water vapour in the air, then the contrail will not spread, but be dispersed or not from at all.

This is a quote from the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)


Persistent contrail formation requires air that is ice-supersaturated (Brewer, 1946). Ice-supersaturated air is often free of visible clouds (Sassen, 1997) because the supersaturation is too small for ice particle nucleation to occur (Heymsfield et al., 1998b). Supersaturated regions are expected to be quite common in the upper troposphere (Ludlam, 1980). The presence of persistent contrails demonstrates that the upper troposphere contains air that is ice-supersaturated but will not form clouds unless initiated by aircraft exhaust (Jensen et al., 1998a). Aircraft initiate contrail formation by increasing the humidity within their exhaust trails, whereas local atmospheric conditions govern the subsequent evolution of contrail cirrus clouds. Indeed, the ice mass in long-lasting contrails originates almost completely from ambient water vapor (Knollenberg, 1972).




reply posted on 12-3-2008 @ 09:25 PM by OzWeatherman
Originally posted by StellarX
Originally posted by weedwhacker
StellarX, regarding your post, bottom of page 7, first picture on top...

'chemtrail'?!?!?! Do you mean those compact, less than 200-foot-wide (66 metre) CONTRAILS? The ones that clearly show the passage of at least three commercial jets, who all were flying the same Airways, and turned at the same VOR...whilst the upper winds, differing winds, depending on altitude, showed the drift of the persistent CONTRAILS? Are those what you are pointing out?

Indeed. So your admitting that commercial planes are suddenly flying in formations these days?


No he was saying that there several planes following the same flight path....where does it say they were flying in formation. Another assumption from a chemtrailer....typical

So, somehow, a skinny 'chemtrail' at 35,000 feet will somehow affect something on the ground?!? How? I daresay, if someone wanted to spray us with chemicals, they would do it at a much lower altitude.

Why presume that i believe they are trying to poison us with chemicals from the sky when they have proven themselves quit adept and efficient by putting fluoride in drinking water? I am fairly confident that any adverse health effects chem trails cause are entirely incidental.


Well, why not poison drinking water with the same stuff in chemtrails. Its much more likely to work more efficiently than dropping something down from 30,000ft. This is just common sense

How many cropduster airplanes have you seen dusting crops from 35,000 feet? Or, 20,000 feet? Or even 10,000 feet?

Obviously non unless computer technology and information processing has developed to such a state that they can predict downwind fallout patterns to the acre.


Yeah and what about the unpredictablity of changing wind patterns, the movement of the jetstream, high and low pressure systems, cold, warm and occluded fronts, storm systems, localised eddies, wind shear, temperature, humidity and pressure change, the changin of wind a different pressure and significant levels. Its to unpredicatable, it is not possible to drop something from such height and land it precisely on a target, even something the size of a city


Should i move on to how the supposed experts admits that contrails are very badly understood atmospheric phenomenon?

Stellar


Please do...meteorologist here

[edit on 12/3/2008 by OzWeatherman]


reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 12:47 AM by weedwhacker
reply to post by pikypiky


Please, pikypiky, could you explain firstly, where you are, and secondly, when you saw these 'trails'...I term them in quotes because, unless you have very specific times, and dates, and if you can, please, estimate the atlitudes...that data woudl all be helpful.

Without verifiable data, then it becomes hearsay, doesn't it??

Hearsay is another term that is in the language of Lawyers, or Solicitors, in England. Law is different, of course, depending on jurisdiction....

While I am NOT a LAWYER...I know a little bit about how testimony can be subborned, and eventually facts get smashed in the process.......do not let fcts get suppressed1111


reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 12:48 AM by OzWeatherman
reply to post by pikypiky


Sounds like the flight path went directly over your house on that day. I dont see why you are so upset about it.

Would have been due to prevailing winds and possibly the location of the jetstream


reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 07:11 AM by Essan
reply to post by utmostbastard


I'd hate to have been your teacher at school. I assume you automatically ignore everything you're ever told by those who have knowledge on a subject Makes you feel somehow better living in total ignorance does it?

What a waste of time all the posts and links we've made here and elsewhere on ATS are. I had hoped that at least a few people were interested in learning, rather than just refusing to listen to anything that upsets their misinformed dogmatic beliefs.

Chemtrailers are starting to sound more and more like fundamentalist young earth christians or other such religious zeolots by the day!

Why are you all so determined not to understand basic science?


And the daft thing is, chemtrails may even be real! It's just that you can't see them And your letting yourself be conned into thinking the mundane is something it's not. Nice conspiracy there

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Essan]


reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:13 PM by Pilot
files.abovetopsecret.com...

Here is a picture I took in Feb, probably about 40 degrees outside that day, see the X formation? Those were jet trails made about 30-45 min before I took the picture of the little trail near the middle of the X...now could one of you experts explain how the jets make the trails that splay out all over the place and the shortys in the same span of time?? WHY does this happen? What makes the difference??

After that I'll shut up about it.


reply posted on 13-3-2008 @ 09:15 PM by greeneyedleo
reply to post by Pilot

Have you read this thread in its entirety? If not, you should. What you are seeing is explained


reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 01:08 AM by jmt18325
reply to post by Pilot


Why do so many people have such a hard time believing the truth? There is no conspiracy.


reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 02:30 AM by Komodo
www.abovetopsecret.com...

see the YouTube vid~~




Originally posted by OzWeatherman
I have seen a few of these things posted by some users, claiming that they are from the government spraying chemicals into our atmosphere and frankly I have had a gutful. So I am posting pictures with explanations so hopefully some of you will take not and maybe be more aware of the REAL process in which these beautiful atmopsheric phenomene are formed

First is irdescent clouds or iriastion. This occurs when small uniform water droplets or ice crystals diffract sunlight causing a brilliant array of colurs to appear in the cloud. Commonly occurs in altocumulus and cirroform clouds when the cloud is in its formation phase. Example in link

apollo.lsc.vsc.edu...

Secondly is the sundog phenomena....and no it is not Nibiru or Planet X people, nor is it created by humans. Sundogs occur when sunlight passes through horizontal plate ice crystals in cirroform clouds. They are commonly seen when the sun is low on the horizon. Example below

www.polarbearalley.com...

Third up is the halo. There are many types of halo so I wont go into too much depth. Halos occur when ice diffracts light. Different angles of the ice make different patterns, from full cirlces around the sun or moon, to tangent arcs. Halos are actually more common than and are most often seen in cirrostratus cloud. The example is of a parhelic circle halo, which is often seen with sundogs

www.stormeyes.org...

Fourth is Nacreous and Noctilucent clouds. These are unlike the other cloud types because they lie in the stratosphere rather than the troposphere (which is where normal clouds are found) Both can be brilliant colours, and are still visible after the sun has set. They are both seen at the higher latitudes but have been known to be seen as far south as Utah. First example is a Nacreous cloud and the second is a Noctilucent cloud

www.physics.otago.ac.nz...

www.dundeecity.gov.uk...

So there you go, these are all natural and have nothing to do with the government poisoning us. Please note that the halos and sundogs do form in contrails from aircraft as the exhaust freezes in the super cool environent. Also take note that contrails do persist and spread across the sky in some cases. In the meteorological world, a contrail is reported as cirrus cloud when it is still visble after half an hour. So to all those that say contrails dissipate.....you are wrong :p




:



reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 05:09 AM by Beachcoma
Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
[..] that was started for the sole purpose of scaring people and no other reason whatsoever, to carry out whatever agenda you have.


The reason is to deflect attention from a very real issue.


Whether the jet set should grab a hair shirt over global warming is, well, a heated topic. The airline industry insists commercial airplanes, when tracked by the fuel needed per kilometre travelled per passenger, are on par with a fuel-efficient hybrid car. Air travel is responsible for about 2 per cent of global-warming emissions.

[...]

The controversy stems from the fact that high-altitude emissions - from nine to 13 kilometres up for subsonic flights and higher for supersonic - cause disproportionately more warming than those at ground level, anywhere from 50 per cent to four times as much, making its global-warming role more significant than its emissions tally alone would indicate.

Part of the worry is due to contrails, the thin vapour trails from jets that crisscross the sky above many of the world's most-travelled air routes. Contrails resemble artificial cirrus clouds, trapping heat, although there is no scientific consensus about the size of their leavening effect on global warming.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.


*Source - Scroll down and look for the article titled "Aviation industry in eye of climate-change storm"

Can't have the increasingly green-concious people start questioning what the airline industry is doing to reduce emissions. That's not good for business, what with air-travel expected to continue increasing... so as long as people think it's some kind of nefarious government experiment, the airline industry (and the people it caters to) will not be in the cross-hairs of public environmental scrutiny.

People blame their governments for everything else anyway, so that's not an issue. Better blame the government rather than realise that the individual consumer is adding to a very real problem. After all, nobody want to accept personal responsibility over such a real (non-conspiratorial) and hotly debated environmental dilemma.


reply posted on 14-3-2008 @ 05:38 AM by mortalengine
reply to post by OzWeatherman


I dont know what the big issue with Chemtrails is, we know that they're doing it - they admitted it. It's fine aluminium particles that theyre putting up there to try and prevent the warming of the planet that is currently happening because of the changes ocurring in our solar system.

I have no idea if those images you posted are caused by chemtrails or by natural phenomenon or not, to be honest I dont really care. Either way they are beautiful to look at, regarding the chemicals they're putting up there... well theres nothing to chat about - it's constitutionally correct and they are 100% allowed to do this according to the American constitution.

The real interesting thing in the matter is that aluminium IS a neurotoxin, whether there's a correlation between what they're trying to do to prevent global warming and dumb-down the public is unknown to me, but aluminium is very readily available and it's light and easy to transport.

It might be conspiratory or it might just be a coincidence, either way we have been left out of tye choice loop. But the major issue with the chemtrail conspiracy is that it's a very haphazard and retarded way of "dumbing-down" the public, for the simple fact that we all share the same air and skies. They would in all honesty be dumbing themselves down too... not very smart, and not very likely.
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