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This is not a chemtrail! Atmospheric Phenomenen explained

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posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:18 AM

Well, I don't know much about that adiabatic rate stuff, but here goes.

1.when air rises, its temperature decreases
2.when air subsides, its temperature increases
3.when the temperature of a parcel of air decreases, its relative humidity increases
4.when the temperature of a parcel of air increases, its relative humidity decreases
5.the normal environmental lapse rate applies to still air
the dry adiabatic lapse rate applies to rising air, when the relative humidity is below 100%
6.the dry adiabatic lapse rate also applies to air that is subsiding. If there is no moisture present, and no evaporation is taking place,
the saturated adiabatic lapse rate applies to rising air, when the relative humidity has reached 100%, and condensation is taking place.

Rising air experiences a drop in temperature, even though no heat is lost to the outside. The drop in temperature is a result of the decrease in atmospheric pressure at higher altitudes. If the pressure of the surrounding air is reduced, then the rising air parcel will expand. The molecules of air are doing work as they expand. This will affect the parcel's temperature (which is the average kinetic energy of the molecules in the air parcel). One of the results of the Laws of Thermodynamics is that there is an inverse relationship between the volume of an air parcel and its temperature. During either expansion or compression, the total amount of energy in the parcel remains the same (none is added or lost). The energy can either be used to do the work of expansion, or to maintain the temperature of the parcel, but it can't be used for both. If the total amount of heat in a parcel of air is held constant (no heat is added or released), then when the parcel expands, its temperature drops. When the parcel is compressed, its temperature rises. In the atmosphere, if the parcel of air were forced to descend, it would warm up again without taking heat from the outside. This is called adiabatic heating and cooling, and the term adiabatic implies a change in temperature of the parcel of air without gain or loss of heat from outside the air parcel. Adiabatic processes are very important in the atmosphere, and adiabatic cooling of rising air is the dominant cause of cloud formation.

Ok, my brain is cooked now!


posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:19 AM
reply to post by Shakesbeer

Shakesbeer, you wanna rent an ATS helicopter? I'm still waiting for Capt John Lear to come through on his offer to have us fly a B767 simulator into the WTC...ah, but that's a completely other issue, altogether. '...that's a completely other issue, altogether...'

And don't call me Shirley!

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:25 AM
reply to post by ZOOMER

ZOOMER!! Good job, but really all we had to say was that the temp, on average, drops by 2degreesC/3degreesF per 1000 feet.

Thanks for finding all of that info, though. Good work.

add: I hope we don't get into trouble, talking about the atmosphere and such...I will argue it is relevant, so there!

[edit on 8-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:27 AM
I had just been discussing this with a friend the other day and decided to snap some photos because the activity began rather abruptly and hit rather hard.

The last one was taken while driving so pardon the car door. I have others which show the typical tic-tac-toe pattern commonly referred to but haven't bothered to upload them yet. I would love to hear any theories to explain, if not intentional, the grid patterns...

The only reason this even came up is that it had been a clear and sunny day up until this all occurred (and remained in the skies all day) and I was complaining that after this long winter I just wanted to be in the sun... but couldn't. On days where this occurs, it is plain obvious. I live in the surrounding area of MoffettField in California.

In an initially unrelated moment of surfing the web, I ran into this ".pdf" document at the CDC website which states:

See Page 51

[edit on 8-3-2008 by spectre76]

[edit on 8-3-2008 by spectre76]

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:28 AM

Originally posted by Shakesbeer
I saw "" posted again so it's only fair I post these again:

Local NBC 4 reporting from San Bernardino California: People are reportedly seeing a "yellow dust" on everything & getting sick with a doc's testimony correlating with respiratory ailments amongst other things:

Here's another News report from Arkansas where a man collected the particles from one of the trails that was falling, had it analyzed which came back to have 3x's the normal amount of Barium then in a normal contrail:

I love the semantics game of the thread too btw

Hilarious vids...

Contrails (and what people claim are chemtrails) occur over 25,000 feet up and at temperatures dozens of degrees below zero.
They can in no way shape or form reach levels in which humans live.
Even if they could fall (which they can't), they would end up dozens if not hundreds of miles away.
It would also take a long time for it to reach the ground, so the people were able to take pictures of it in the sky, but couldn't take pictures of it falling?? LOL Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

so because you guys persist in proving a natural phenomena that we're all very much aware exists already, and are very capable of comprehending the physics just fine

I would venture to say most people do NOT know about the whys and hows of the formation of contrails (hence why you see these chemtrail threads - their way of trying to explain something they don't understand).
This whole thing was started by Art Bell about a decade sticking to his shtick of scaring his base into a frenzy. As of today there has not been on piece of credible evidence to suggest chemtrails are real.

Someone mentioned earlier about pollution, they are absolutely correct. Sorta. While there is some pollution, a lot of it is just water vapor. Water vapor though is the earth's main greenhouse gas. When all air traffic was stopped after 9/11 we (the U.S.) cooled a bit without that extra water vapor in the air.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by ThatsJustWeird]

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:32 AM
spectre, there are some contrails in those pics but most of those are regular cirrus clouds (some pics don't have any contrails at all).
You'll have to blame mother nature for that

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:33 AM
reply to post by spectre76

spectre, thanks...but those look pretty much like regular contrails, to me.

I was thinking about this a few weeks ago, was out walking in the DC was one of those clear and COLD days...but point is, it was a DRY day. Not only on the surface, but up above as well.

Think is, I KNOW that jets are coming and going from NYC to Florida, or example (and ATL, and IAH, etc) and I know the AirWay system over the DC area...there were NO CONTRAILS in view that day....because, the air was too dry for them to form. Plain and simple.

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:33 AM
Here is a video of the best compiltation of the phenomena that I have seen yet in a three minute video.


You asked a couple of time why is this being done in broad daylight instead of at night.

I would offer a suggestion that perhaps something in the trails is reflecting sunlight. This will fall into the weather modification arena possibly. You can reflect the sun at night!

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 01:57 AM
reply to post by interestedalways

OK, interested, saw that vid...

The narrator inferred poison being sprayed on us...but you answered my question about 'why' in daylight to suppose it is an effort to diminish, or somehow affect 'global warming'. I get that part, I know that a cloud at night will not deflect sunlight!

So, are they spraying poisons? Or trying to alter climate? Which one? Quick, choose one or the other.

Watch, and listen to the vid again...the narration says that chemicals are in the jet fuel. THAT is utter nonsense. It would be far more effective to put those 'chemicals' into automobile gasoline....far more ability to spread it...just think of all of those UPS and FedEx trucks, for example!!!

If our government wants to kill us, they have better means at their disposal than alleged 'chemtrails'....from commercial jets. It is, really, quite silly.

Here's another thing to put into your thinking you know how hot it gets inside the combustion chamber of a jet engine? We don't have insruments in the cockpit that measure the temps in the 'burner', we read the temp downstream, at one of the stages selected by the engine manufacturer. It is called 'EGT'...Exhaust Gas Temperature. We will typically see EGT of around 870 degrees CELSIUS, as a 'maximum' based on engine design. That means, any alleged chemical in the fuel would have to survive temperatures much higher than that, in order to survive and be 'exhausted' out of the engine.

Also, anything added to the Jet fuel would change the specific gravity of the fuel, and hence would show up on the fuel guages. Fuel quantity in a jet is measured by probes, many probes in each tank, that read the specific density, and are linked together to derive the quantity reading.

We know, and use, an average density of Jet-A at 6.7 lbs/gallon. Density will vary, based on temperature, from about 6.6 to 6.8, but the system also knows the fuel temp and adjusts.

So...chemicals in the fuel of jetliners? Nope!

Thanks for your posts

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:06 AM
Quick choose one or the other. I believe not poster. ER docs making statements of increasing respiratory problems after heavy spraying is enough for me.

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:13 AM
If it looks like an elephant, acts like an elephant, is identical to elephants that have been reported and studied for many decades, and all the world's elephant experts tell you it's an elephant, why persist in saying it's a horse?

I've still seen no evidence that what are claimed to be chemtrails cannot be what all the experts have been saying they are for decades - normal contrails.

Are the experts who study the effects of these contrails, and how and why they form, really so very stupid and the chemtrailer believers so very much more clever?

That's the crux of the issue.

btw if you're worried about chemicals in the air causing illness and the like, I'd suggest you look a lot closer to the ground for a likely cause

[edit on 8-3-2008 by Essan]

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:16 AM
That's just it Essan, with all due and utmost respect. Thousands if not millions of people are acknowledging some very unusual behaviour in our skies and weather of late.

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:17 AM
Normal contrails would dissipate within moments of the plane crossing the field of view. These contrails not only failed to dissipate but proceeded to cover the expanse of the sky well into the evening and again... were you familiar with my skies, you'd know what occurred on this day was by no means "normal" and I also pointed to some government documentation but you failed to dismiss it. I have no need or desire to make this up by any means. It isn't like I am trying to convince anyone of this... I wouldn't know where to begin were I to desire to do so.

I was trying to direct everyone to the following:

The visual effect is similar to that of a vapor trail except that a vapor trail can extend for a considerable distance, even horizon-to-horizon, whereas a jettisoning event lasts for a few seconds and will likely leave a much shorter visible trail.

Community members have voiced concern about possible public health risks associated with the Navy's use of chaff at NASF. Chaff is a metallic material consisting of aluminum-coated glass fibers. Chaff fibers typically are 25 microns (m) thick and between 1 and 2 centimeters long (Naval Research Laboratory 1999). The primary elements in chaff are aluminum and silicon--two of the most abundant naturally occurring elements in the earth's crust. It is used by the military to confuse radar signals, which allows aircraft to operate without easily being detected.

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:19 AM
reply to post by jpm1602

jpm...please corelate 'spraying' with ER doctors reports...I mean, let's make sure we're comparing apples to apples here.

This goes all over the map, and jumps the shark at times...

Once again...commercial passenger jets do not have the ability to spray, nor can some 'chemical' be introduced into the fuel without someone knowing, or noticing.

Military Ops that may wish to experiment with climate control? I have no idea.

Military Ops that may wish to poison the populace? I have no idea, but if it was all about poison, they'd do it under cover of darkness, I would presume.

Besides, there are more efficient ways to distribute these alleged 'chemicals', if desired, than with airplanes!! Little narrow bands of 'something' at 35,000 feet? When there are millions of acres on the Earth's surface?!? Not logical.

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:23 AM
In my most humble opinion. Not only are there accounts of weather modification, but also heavy planes filled with cannisters. Of what? Still remains to be known.

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:28 AM
reply to post by spectre76

spectre, I will try once more. NOT ALL CONTRAILS immediately evaporate just after being formed! I have seen many contrails in 22 years of flying jets. Sometimes, indeed, they will form briefly, and within a few minutes of the airplane's passage, they will evaporate. Seen it many times.

When sufficient water vapor exists, the contrails will persist for a very long time, gradually thinning out, maybe blending in with the naturally occuring clouds, the do you imagine cirrus clouds, or any clouds, for that matter, form by natural means?!? Clouds existed before airplanes did, that is for sure!

This concept 'chemtrails', has come about because A) the Internet and B) increasingly busy skies overhead. And, these facts coupled with a terrible lack of science education, mostly in the US, I am guessing.

Provide evidence of a harmful chemical that can survive the combustion process in a jet engine, where temps will approach or exceed 2000 degrees C...

Good luck, thanks for your post.


[edit on 8-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:36 AM
reply to post by jpm1602

jpm, WHAT reports of heavy planes filled with cannisters?? Give us a link, or something to chew on. Unsubstantiated comments mean nothing.

I write detailed posts based on my knowledge, and experience. I invite anyone to challenge my posts, and find flaws.

jpm, are there reports of Military airplanes, carrying cannisters? Are they 55-gallon drums? NO, of course not, they'd be much more sophisticated.

Is the Military spraying the upper atmosphere to poison us? To effect climate change? To experiment? What??

Thanks for your response.

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:36 AM
It's ok gang. It really is. It's about a 50/50 split of those in this world who have lived 40 plus years that say increased jet travel has precipitated this phenom.
Others say the latter, including me.
It is not a natural phenomenon. Do I have direct evidence? No. But I believe I have plenty of indirect evidence that would suggest contrary.
Sorry weed, just saw a post up yesterday of many heavy cannisters loaded on a plane, I do not do linkies for puter security. You can have my head if you will.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by jpm1602]

posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:40 AM
reply to post by jpm1602

jpm..dude 'indirect evidence'? That's like saying almost pregnant (sorry, Mods).

jpm, you possess 'indirect evidence'...then post it, please. If what is feared is true (military conducting experiments in secret) then it should, no, it MUST be exposed!!

Please, help us expose it, if it is indeed true!


posted on Mar, 8 2008 @ 02:44 AM
I don't know if I can make that so for you weed. My apologies. All I have is the eyes in my head that have seen aerial phenom out of norm.
My apologies.
So I basically got nothing to prove my beliefs, other than the belief in my heart that things are not right.

[edit on 8-3-2008 by jpm1602]

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