Christians...how do you justify all of this?

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posted on Oct, 23 2008 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
It is more then faith....for those who quote their scriptures and are awaiting God to show the 'wrong doers' just how wrong they are and oh they will pay the price.

The ONLY reason you say God is JUST is because in order to be a follower of the ENTIRE bible, one must come to that conclusion. It is the EXCUSE the bible gives for God loosing hope in the ones who were 'born of the wrong seed'.

If there are those born of a wrong seed>does this mean God loves them less...so he looses hope faster in them to kill them?

The ONLY reason you say God is JUST is because you have to when following the entire bible. How else would a follower of the bible justify such a wrathful God? There is no other way....you HAVE to say, thee is JUST.

So many people get caught up defending their scriptures, when they should be learning the true nature of our creator by looking within themselves. So many people get caught up defending a scripture that supposedly has the TRUE story of Adam and Eve...when there is no way a story of such things could survive without tamperment or destruction (the world flood). And the flood story says.....that God brought the flood to destroy this 'bad seed'...BUT then after the flood God says that some from this bad seed still remained on the earth. THIS IS JUST A STORY TAKEN FROM A ENTIRE DIFFERENT GENERATION AND ADDED TO THE HEBREWS AS THEY SAW FIT>

God is not awaiting to punish us! We are a part of Thee, Thee is waiting to only love us. God is going through our experiences with us, through our thoughts, feelings and and experiences. God loves us unconditionally. The story about 'doing wrong and burning in hell ' is created by man to explain the unexplained. I can think of MANY stories in the bible where Gods reasons for doing something was NOT just! Man chooses to ignore their inner voice over the scriptures and says 'because God says so'.

God does not work in ways without reasons! God does not do anything 'because he says so'. God is more perfect then that. God is more perfect then to kill people out of lose of hope. God is more perfect then to kill babies to prove a point of his power. The only thing that people who quote the bible is armed with is their bible. I would rather be armed with my nature, which is the Holy Spirit, the divine nature that flows through all life, the wisdom that can be saught through stillness and humble living. God placed thees secrets and mysteries in a place that can carry his divinity far longer then any book, which is the Adam, THE MANKIND. God placed Eve in mankind...God placed life in mankind. We are the carriers of the divine, we are the instruments that thee will shine through, we are THEE. WE ARE THE I AM. Ever single one of us, are a spark of God. We are all a self of God, experiencing ourselves and other selves as a divided experience.

Yes there can be wrong doings. There is the ability to do wrong in order to understand what we have. You must experience lose in order to be thankful for what you have. You must experience sorrow to truly understand the quality of happiness and contentment. You must experience through other selves, just as well as yourself, to know, we are all ONE of THEE.

NO WHERE IN ANY BOOK OR PROPHECY DID GOD SAY>HERE IS THE LIST OF BOOKS I WANT IN MY FINAL BOOK>NO WHERE DOES GOD SAY THIS>NO WHERE IS THERE ANY PROOF THAT THE OLD TESTAMENT STORIES ARE OF ONLY THE HISTORY OF THE HEBREW>THERE IS MORE PROOF THAT THESE STORIES HAVE BEEN REWRITTEN AFTER BEING BORROWED FROM CANNON, EGYPT and SUMERIAN HISTORY, THEN THERE IS THE STORIES ORIGINATING WITH ONLY HEBREWS.

I believe in Jesus, I believe Jesus was able to reach the highest purest purpose of life here on earth>THE PATH TO SERVE THE OTHER SELVES<

The religious fanatics took the story of Jesus and told it in a way that could be added to their history book. Which is to keep the masses believing God requires blood and God will cast you all in hell one day. HEL

[edit on 23-10-2008 by Grandma]




posted on Oct, 23 2008 @ 03:29 PM
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Hello my dear daughter. For those who do not know LV is my real daughter and I am the mother who had the near death experience.

That being said, she has brought up some very interesting points and questions. How do we as Christians defend a God who did have the angel of death come upon Egypt and kill all the fist born sons including the first born of the animals. How do we answer that? I know I am having a hard time coming up with an answer. Also, knowing that the Lord kept harding Pharaoh's heart so that He could show that He was truly THE GOD! Even after doing all that, isn't God all knowing? Wouldn't he know that after all that killing and showing them all his power and glory that the Hebrews would continue to keep turning away from Him as their god? This is tough to answer. The only one you can give from the Bible is that He was to show His glory to ALL to see and fear.

I agree that God is within us. His spirit dwells in all of us because He created all of us. It is true that He loves and it is His desire that none of us be lost. That is why He knew from the very beginning of creation. Which by the way I believe that Jesus was there from the beginning also. Anyway, THEY knew from that time that Christ was going to have to come to us as a baby to show us His love, mercy and through His grace we could be saved. I know that is Bible thumping too.

I do agree that He does shine through us and all of us are a part of Him and each other. We do seek a higher power. It is within our nature to do so. To me being a Christian is not a religion it is a way of life. Following the ways that Jesus taught us. Now, was Jesus just a mere man? At this point and time I am still of the belief that Jesus was the one true Son of God and with that being said, if was the true Son of God and sent by God, Why then would God send Him Here? What would be the reason for Him to come here and die such an awful death? It was as I still believe to show us the way to His Father. Which was through Him.

I agree that some of the writings could maybe not be all quite there and maybe even tampered with. And I have read other texts that have not been added to the Bible and I am of the belief that they should be. I do know you can get a Bible now with ALL the texts included. I think we sill have a lot to learn and a long way to go on our paths as we continue our walk to find a higher meaning to life and ourselves. And I agree with LV that LOVE
is the most important gift that we need to share with everyone to find answers. Jesus did show among many other teachings that LOVE was the only Law that we needed to keep. "To love each other as we love our God and as we love ourselves." If we keep that commandment we will find the answers within our 'spirit' and it will seat well within our hearts!

Isn't that all we are really looking for?

Peace
Grandma









posted on Oct, 23 2008 @ 03:39 PM
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Let me ask yall something ..
We cant even figure out the easy part of who we are ..what we are ..where we came from ....what are we doing here .....so how on earth can we find God by looking inward ? if the inward is so confused with so many questions and not even enough answers to sustain us even somewhat ......
Not to mention there are some really messed up people in this world right now who see no God anywhere ...and they are evil to the core ..what happened to God in them if he was really there inside to be found ?

This seeking God inside of us sounds alot like the I am god stuff ...
Which if we were we not all be so messed up in the head and the heart and this world would not be in such a mess ...you would think some of these supposed godselves would already have a great plan going and we would already be seeing some real changes ..instead of on the brink of DESTRUCTION like we are right now ..........Which it was this same mindset that TPTB have who got us in this whole mess to begin with ..They think they found god in side too .....

And all of us are still HOLLERING WE NEED SOMEONE TO SAVE US ..We do it every election ..we do it with waiting for Mother Ships and Alien races to come save us ..we do this with waiting for Jesus to come save us ..We do it waiting for Science to hurry up and save us ...etc etc ..
this I am god stuff sounds even crazier at least to me than Jesus being the son of God and raised from the dead sounds to some of you .............



posted on Oct, 23 2008 @ 11:51 PM
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You ask what will we find by looking inward for God...I ask you, what are you finding by looking outward for God?

Anyone or anything with life, contains a spark of divinity. This divinity can either shine through a person or become covered up by their ego, pride, greed ect....

You are right to say that one can be 'full' of themselves in thinking if God is within, then automatically, they are led by the spirit of God. This is not so, just because God can dwell in every living thing, does not mean that the soul listens and becomes humble to do the will of God. Most often, the soul does the will for the 'self'...not God. To know a vine by the seed is simply that...does a person hold pride that God is within them, does a person hold reverence over others because God is within them, does a person do for themselves more then doing for others, has that person handed over their flesh life for Gods will in them....these are things that I look for when someone talks about God being within. YES, he is within, but that doesnt mean all that are aware of this is doing the will of Thee. I believe God wants us to find every spark of the that is shineing through others, by seeking the grace, humblness and love in the ones that shine peace and unity.

Destruction is created by the ego in man and by man seperating theeself. Seperation can not be the will of God, so much violence and pride has came out of man seperating theeself from other selves. The wars that have been fought are all due to ego and living for the self and living for a seperation amoungst mankind. Is this the will of God? Surely it is not.

By saying God is within, its easier said then lived. But, to say that every man is not worthy of coming to this knowledge one day, is separation that Gods spark of life is not within all. I believe even the most egotistical person has a chance to see the will of peace and unity and come to find this unconditional love within them and for them, even if its in their last breath.

We should be more confident that God can work through us to shine thee eternal light onto others, if we are humbled by the works of Thee and if we dedicate our life to the will of Thee. Then, not only does the spark exists within, but it becomes alive in you. God knows if your intentions are for your ego or for Thees will. God knows if you seek him to be gratified by others, or if you seek Thee with a humble heart.

Jesus was a son of God, just as I am a daughter of God. Jesus is just as much a part of you as you are a part of him, because we are all of the same substance of spirit, with is Thee I Am. You dont only find God within yourself and others, you find Thee in the flowers, the sun, the wind, the trees, the animals, the water, ect...Mother nature holds mysteries of God, which in my eyes, is nothing is wasted, everything is recycled. Religions imprint the mind that you arent worthy of God, you are evil and made from sin. To think God made this world knowing Eve and Adam would do wrong and we would all pay that price for generations to come is crazy to me.

I love my children unconditionally, its hard for me to imagine God doesnt love his children unconditionally and our purpose here is to overcome sin. Yes, we are to overcome the ego, pride, greed....because these are of man, not of God. Once we realize this loving nature, let it humble you, let the life of God within humble you, your life becomes an instrument for the will of Thee.



posted on Oct, 23 2008 @ 11:58 PM
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I dont think its crazy that Jesus became a son of God and was resurrected...because he did the will of living for others, so God was able to live through his son, just as God can live through us. Jesus offered his flesh body for us to learn from him, for God to show us things.Jesus lived for the will of Thee, not of himself or his own ego.

LV



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 12:50 AM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
{You ask what will we find by looking inward for God...I ask you, what are you finding by looking outward for God?}

Me looking and staying inward is why God could not come in with me because I was SHUTTING HIM OUT

{Anyone or anything with life, contains a spark of divinity. This divinity can either shine through a person or become covered up by their ego, pride, greed ect....}

I believe we hold the breath of God (Life) and the rest is flesh and earthly and waxes old as does the earth and all things therein ..read the bible you will see that ) The divinity is deep within us all in that breath of LIFE >>..but gets covered by the darkness in us all our earthly fleshly carnal self (heart soul and mind is also carnal and fleshly without the Holy Spirit of God within us ..which we have to ASK FOR when we ask for Christ to live within us ...if he isnt there ..that light your talking about is then only artificial ...and our fleshly heart mind and soul which we feed and feed through the desires of our flesh and our own selfish purposes quenches even that spirit of LIFE that we recieved from the breath of GOD ....we feed the flesh and mind but we do not feed the soul that is why we cannot do it ourselves we do not have soul food ...within us ..look around at people who claim to have LOVE >>is it really love ?? NO ...it is more like posessions ...my exes who claimed to love me saw me only as something that belonged to them ..their posession...that was all I was to them ...even though they thought that was love .....anyway what is soul food ...only the Spirit of God can feed us the soul food we need ...with his word ..thy word have I hid in my heart so that I might not sin against thee .....


{By saying God is within, its easier said then lived. But, to say that every man is not worthy of coming to this knowledge one day, is separation that Gods spark of life is not within all. I believe even the most egotistical person has a chance to see the will of peace and unity and come to find this unconditional love within them and for them, even if its in their last breath.}

Maybe you have never really allowed him in then because I find it was harder to show real love etc before I allowed him in than after he came in actually I really had no idea even what love was until he came into my life ...it was only because of his spirit within me that I was able to have that unconditional love .....)))) I do agree though that many are called ...but the word says that few are chosen ...because they could not give up the self thing ..

{We should be more confident that God can work through us to shine thee eternal light onto others, if we are humbled by the works of Thee and if we dedicate our life to the will of Thee. Then, not only does the spark exists within, but it becomes alive in you. God knows if your intentions are for your ego or for Thees will. God knows if you seek him to be gratified by others, or if you seek Thee with a humble heart.}

There is only artificial light without him (which is what I see in most people I know even alot of Christians are shineing with an artificial light ) without the TRUE light which is CHRIST WITHIN US ..there is POWER in that light .. when you accept him into your heart and truly die to self and allow him to live within you ..)I agree God knows all ..which is why so many cannot seem to find him ..there is something there keeping them from finding him and It is not GOD hiding from them ..

{Jesus was a son of God, just as I am a daughter of God. Jesus is just as much a part of you as you are a part of him, because we are all of the same substance of spirit, with is Thee I Am. You dont only find God within yourself and others, you find Thee in the flowers, the sun, the wind, the trees, the animals, the water, ect...Mother nature holds mysteries of God, which in my eyes, is nothing is wasted, everything is recycled. Religions imprint the mind that you arent worthy of God, you are evil and made from sin. To think God made this world knowing Eve and Adam would do wrong and we would all pay that price for generations to come is crazy to me.}

Mother Nature was created by God ..and Mother Nature has a wrathful wild side does it not ? It also rolls rumbles and tosses to and fro from all the ILLS done to it ....Just like GOD ....I believe God even feels the earth aging (like he does us ) and he feels its pain ..as we not only destroy ourselves but the earth around us ..I know that PAINS GOD so .......yet we just keep on and keep on ..never able to change the way we are ..or the way we do things ..we are all ego maniacs and only care about ourselves ....which is why there has to be a change made ..once again ...God loves us so much he knows that we will all destroy ourselves if he does not once again intervene .only this time make sure this does not happen again and again and again ..which is the only reason why this time the change will be forever ..(If he leaves us as we are we will repeat history ) .... he is going to make things ALL NEW this time ...that is not a bad thing ...If your called and choose to go to that new place (Here on earth for those thousand years of real peace and in heaven after that ) ...then just give up yourself TO HIM >.comeing HUMBLY before the throne asking forgiveness for our selfishness and all that we have screwed up about the life that he gave us ......

{I love my children unconditionally, its hard for me to imagine God doesnt love his children unconditionally and our purpose here is to overcome sin. Yes, we are to overcome the ego, pride, greed....because these are of man, not of God. Once we realize this loving nature, let it humble you, let the life of God within humble you, your life becomes an instrument for the will of Thee. }

And because you love them you punish them when they are acting badly dont you ? And if they get completely out of control the punishment is worse right ? >>>And if they just keep on and on they usually will end up in jail or the nuthouse ......and sometimes they even commit horrible crimes ...possibly even getting the death penality right ? >>>not because they did not have a chance to change how they acted ..but because they CHOOSE NOT TO >...Same goes for those who deny Gods existance .....
Even in Rev when they get the mark ..it even says THEY STILL DID NOT REPENT of their EVIL WAYS ...he still waited for it to happen ..It did not ...not even after severe punishment ...how hardheaded is that ..
Most of us just go through a little to see we need to stop heading in the direction we are headed to ..but many do not care at all and in fact are just rebellious and will always be that way ..the bible discribes them as stiffnecked and rebellious peoples ....which made them hardhearted and selfish which is ANTI GOD ....

We cannot overcome sin by ourselves ..we are weak in the flesh and cannot even get it under control without his power ..to keep it under subjection ..
we have no power without him in us ..and we will just continue down that path to death without him in our heart soul mind and body ......

We have to leave ourselves in order to have him in us ..
That is the part everyone has such a hard time with ...Who needs him when you think you can do it all by yourself right ? Just listen to some people on this forum even ...it is pretty clear to me why some wont make it ..for that one reason alone ..they are the way the truth and the light (the godself) and they need nobody but themselves (Going inward seeking the godself shutting the REAL GOD out ) ...



[edit on 24-10-2008 by Simplynoone]



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 12:58 AM
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Originally posted by LeoVirgo
I dont think its crazy that Jesus became a son of God and was resurrected...because he did the will of living for others, so God was able to live through his son, just as God can live through us. Jesus offered his flesh body for us to learn from him, for God to show us things.Jesus lived for the will of Thee, not of himself or his own ego.

LV


Jesus did what he did to show you that with the POWER of the LIVING GOD you can be like him (Christlike) and overcome sin and death through HIS SPIRIT who comes in you when you ask him in and recieve him in allowing him to become one with you ....It is HE WHO CHANGES YOU FROM WITHIN ..without that HOLY SPIRIT we cannot CHANGE ..we are creatures of HABIT .



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:08 AM
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Only those who are parents will likely relate to this.

When I would tell my children to either do something, or to stop doing something, there was a specific reason.

Younger, they would often ignore me and would pay the price.

Older, they would sometimes ask, "Why?" "That makes no sense." "I don't understand."

Well, it wasn't important that they understood, only that they obey me. I don't think even if I explained they would have fully understood. I wanted obedience, not for my sake, but for theirs.

Now, if God Almighty told the Jews to destroy everything and everyone in Ai, then that was to be done. You don't have to know why, you only have to do as directed.

I'll say this: I do fear my God and some of the foolish replies here make me shudder. For you. Ignore it, ridicule it, whatever.

And just like I told my children I was going to do if they did it one more time, I followed through on my promise.

According to Him, He will be no different.



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:15 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


Yeah and we both know that if we didnt discipline them ..the COPS AND JAIL would ..And sometimes they get in so much trouble they even get DEATH SENTENCES in some cases ....or the consequences for some of their actions are serious ones ..like they die from their own messes ..(Drugs alchohol,HIV,car wrecks etc etc ) ..

Sometimes we discipline and still this happens to them ..some are so hardheaded and dont care ..

Some kids even get sent away to boys homes and nuthouses ...when their behaviour gets so serious ..then even we cant handle them ...
What is God supposed to do with these grown ups who just dont give a crap about nothing or no one ? They are the main reason why this world is as it is ..
SHould God just allow it to continue >What do you suppose would happen .the very same thing that is happening to our world right now ..
He has no choice..BUT WE DID >..



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:22 AM
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Like I said, God knows who comes with a humble heart. Still, God is a part of us, just as we are a part of him, if we choose to see this.

Believing that you need something between you and God in order to come to God is not so. All you need is your humbled heart, and Thee will be there.

I have read the Bible and re-read it many times.

I dont punish my children out of wrath, I reason with them. They might not understand my reasons in the moment, but my reasons are of love. If they walk a path of ego later in life, its a choice they made. If they receive wrathful consequences, its not God doing this to them, its mans ways and orders and systems.

If you were raised with no religion, do you think your consiousness wouldnt be able to find morals and values that would lead to a humble living? I think our nature guides us more then we think. We think its the religion that brought us our right ways to live, but truly, we dont need those laws given by a religion....for the laws will be written on the humble ones heart.

I lived by the Bible for many yrs. It wasnt until I rid of a wrathful God and allowed myself to be worthy of the fact that I am a part of Thee and Thee is a part of me....wonderful things began to happen. It was proof for me, I had found my path. There are many creations that are lower then God, some of them are warriors for Thee and some are prideful of the power they have been given. These lower creations are the spirits that bring wrath, demand worship, demand that your not worthy, demand killings in the name of God, misleading the masses in their true power with Thee.

I respect all paths that are led with a humble heart for the will of Thee, religious or not. Some of the most spiritual people are not of a religion. Some of the most spiritual people are of a religion. I choose not to follow any one belief, but I seek the foundation of love and unity in all of them. If a belief brings separation to mankind....I dont see God there.

Obviously, your heart is humbled and you live for the will of Thee, but our views differ in the nature of God. My soul has never been more full of love and peace through my ridding of a wrathful and prideful God. This is what works for me and has brought me to places in my soul that I have never experienced until I came to Thee and told Thee I find Thees nature to be only love. I felt as if the entire heavens shined a smile onto my soul. After experiencing these things, Ive had no choice but to share my path, for it is what I told Thee I would do.

Peace to you Simplynoon, always
LV



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 01:26 AM
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reply to post by dooper
 


I dont expect my children to obey me just because. I figure Im smart enough to give them a reason for why. I dont feel right telling my child 'because I said so'....they deserve reasoning so they can one day understand my reasoning. I wouldnt expect my children to go kill someone if I told them to. To think that God brought a law to not kill and then orders man to go against the law because God lost hope in these people doing wrong is not the same works and ways that Jesus taught. I guess God is bi-polar....



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 02:28 PM
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reply to post by LeoVirgo
 


You need to rethink what I was saying.

If I could personally sum up the Old Testament, aside from the prophecies, I would say the Old Testament teaches: Obedience.

Folks want to toss out the Old Testament and say it has no meaning to Christians. That's funny. The same God, who never changes, is always the same, and the Old Testament has no meaning? If something is called an abomination in the Old Testament, you can be assured that it is still an abomination, even today.

His children (Jews) didn't need to understand everything. They didn't need to know his logic. His logic, His reasoning, was His.

Take your own children. If you say you always explained everything and didn't demand instant obedience, then I would say you're FOS, or you really didn't care for the safety and welfare of your children.

Children often are unaware of dangers around them. You can see the dangers, comprehend the dangers, and even anticipate the dangers. If a child has put himself in immediate, impending danger, you may not have the luxury to explain the seriousness of his situation. You must demand immediate obedience. Don't hesitate, just obey. You do that, and I'll get you through.

The kid goes running toward the highway, unaware of the real dangers, you're not going to explain anything! You'll yell stop! And you'll light his little ass up if he doesn't immediately obey. Then there's the alternative. He continues.

Obedience. It is absolutely critical and must be demanded of your children. Not just obedience, but this very instant. And if you don't demand it, you're not doing them any favors, I can tell you.

The New Testament in my opinion is about Faith.

When Abraham was commanded to take his son and sacrifice him, Abraham was grievous, but he was going to do that. Why would God demand such a thing? It was through his obedience that he could prove his faith. It's all pretty simple.

I think the guy's name was Uzza, and when the Ark of the Covenant was being transported, one of the asses stumbled and the Ark tilted. They were commanded not to touch it. He reached out his hand to steady it, and was struck dead. Did he have good intentions? Of course he did. Did he possibly just react without thinking? Very possibly.

But he didn't obey!

The way I see it is this. You obey as commanded, whether you understand it or not. Whether you agree or not.

His house. His rules.



posted on Oct, 24 2008 @ 03:09 PM
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Oh man.....If only mr. Hicks and mr. Carlin where here to spread some wisdom on thisone. I miss those guys....

Quote:" Christianity has a built-in defense system: anything that questions a belief, no matter how logical the argument is, is the work of Satan by the very fact that it makes you question a belief. It's a very interesting defense mechanism and the only way to get by it -- and believe me, I was raised Southern Baptist -- is to take massive amounts of mushrooms, sit in a field, and just go, "Show me."




posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:04 PM
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reply to post by Simplynoone
 


I think I need to clear up a few things here. FIRST off let me say that my daughter is a very good mother. Her children are very respectful of their mother and what she says and asks of them. Sure, there are differences and that is mostly because of the age of her children...........now becoming on the edge of the new adventure of their lives....called being a teenager. They need guidance with questions about things going on in the world and how they relate to that. She does a very good job of being there for their questions and helps them come to the answers that will help them cope with this life that we have upon this earth.

Next, I do believe that God does love ALL of us but He also KNOWS THAT WE ARE IN NEED OF HELP TO BE ABLE TO FIGHT OUR SINFUL NATURE! I believe that through the fall of Adam and the continuing fall of the Jews in the care of Moses and so forth........that is why he sent his Son to come SHOW us that MAN could fight our sinful nature with the help of the Holy Spirit. That is our help against Satan. It is His will that NONE OF US SHOULD BE LOST........THAT IS WHY HE IS WAITING AND WAITING THAT UPON HEARING THE GRACE OF CHRIST MAN WILL COME BACK TO HIM!

Now I know this is bible thumping and I know some people do not like that. Well, I am sorry. I do think we have a free will and WE make the choice to be with God and His love or we do not. I believe the people that you are talking about in prison and jail have turned their life over to satan. Now, that does not mean that they are forever lost. I believe that until our very last breath God is still reaching out and the Holy Spirit is still trying to convict their heart and turn them back to their FATHER!

I have done a lot of reserch and I do believe that the letter of Paul and the Gospel of Luke who also wrote Acts to be real. I have send the scrolls that have found and how they were not only dated to that period but that the letter of Paul say I PAUL AM WRITING ........... Now, as it was the custom for some people during that time period to have a secretary of sorts to do the actual writing as they told their stories. That still doesn't mean that Paul did not WRITE his letters. They have also found that the First Letter of Peter to be his. Now, you have Luke, Paul, and Peter all saying the same thing as were also Matthew. Luke and Paul were educated men and could write in Greek as well as Hebrew. You have the TRUE account of Peter who was the one that Christ said "Peter, upon you I build my church and give the keys to Hades." Simon Peter mens ROCK. Paul was called to his ministry by CHRIST to preach to the gentles. And hes traveled as far as Rome to do this. It is in the Roman history that both Peter and Paul were sentenced to death by Nero the year escapes me now, forgive me I am old and my memory doesn't work well all the time. Paul was beheaded and Peter died by crucifixion.........upside down. The Christians at that time in Rome buried Peter and put a big RED ROCK on top of his grave. Petra is a rock city in the desert that I was taken to during my near death experience and I feel God was telling me to do more reserch on Peter as I have. They also buried Paul and all Christians kept passing down what happened to them as well as being in the Roman archives. Now, Luke being a doctor used the words in his writings that a doctor would use. He wrote his transcripts in Greek and used the Greek words for his Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts. Their is no doubt they were both written by Luke. And as Paul needed a doctor to travel with him no doubt that is when Paul transcribed his account to Luke for the book of Acts as well as being in Paul's company Luke would have known the other apostles in Jerusalem and heard first hand accounts of their stories. That is why I give account for my faith.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by Shedman

Originally posted by kinglizard
With the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ we came into a new covenant (agreement) with God. He paid our price for sin and allowed us to find the father. The price paid can be accepted by anyone that accepts Jesus as their Lord and savior, there is no time limit for the offering. In other words everyone has the term of their life to accept Jesus and the salvation offered. If a sinner was put to death by man for whatever reason under this new covenant, that man would be taking away the sinners right to find salvation (Jesus) and forgiveness during the term of their natural god given life.

So we need to read the Old Testament with an understanding of the New.
That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. How could Jesus pay my "debt" before I'm even born? And how does one acquire a debt before birth? Why would I be born any differently than Jesus?
And what is it I need saving from anyway? Eternal damnation if I don't join the Jesus club? What kind of a "God" would condemn his children to eternal damnation without at least explaining why?
Christianity is the biggest conspiracy in the world. A small group of self appointed men control millions of people, and their money, by simply saying that unless you join the club you will burn in hell for all eternity. There is absolutely no proof of any of their claims, yet people buy their scam out of fear and confusion.
God is pure love and yet will condemn his children to burn in hell??? I don't think so. Jesus was only crucified once, but "Christianity" has crucified the teachings of Jesus for thousands of years.


Just a note - in 1 John, the Bible says that we are all born children of the devil. We're not born children of God - we are born children of the devil. We are born belonging to him - satan. Only Jesus can redeem us by paying our debt, thus making us children of God - when Jesus redeems us, we become possessions of the one true God, rather than possessions of the devil. Doesn't matter if you don't believe it or don't like it - it's the truth.



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:02 PM
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Its the fullness of ones self that leads them to believe they know what truth is. Its the ego that says to oneself 'we have it all figured out'.

My truth is my spirit telling me Im a child of God and that I was loved from the beginning. Your spirit tells you that you are not worthy of Gods love because you are of Satan. There are books and religions that support both of these beliefs, and the belief is very true to each person that is influenced by these books and beliefs.

If there ever was a wise deception placed apone man, by satan, I think it would involve getting man to believe something to be of God (like wrath, greed and pride) when it really isnt. Too much emphasis is placed on a book, when the true dwelling place of Thee is in the tabernacle of flesh, within each and every person. I feel like God has been telling me my whole life that 'Thee is not those ruling ways'....and ....'this is why I gave you free will, to come to me on your own, to seek me on your own, out of love you find for me, not out of fear that I dont and wont love you'. Still, right now, I feel the spirit showing me how much we are all loved and the spirit with in us longs for us to know this.

Its been a long time since the human race has been able to seek for itself, so many yrs. the belief of truth was placed on us without being able to seek many ideas to weigh with our intuition. I feel in this age, with all freedoms that we now have to search for ourselves, the spirit is feeling like there is a chance, once again, for everyone to stop fearing Thee and to know, you cant even imagine how much you are loved. My intuition says this, where ever you find death or hate, you will not find Thee Most High. Every thing is a part of Thee, but is below or outside of Thee....Thee Most High is love and only love. Why does God need warriors for the light???? Because thee is not capable of war or killings. Thees warriors do this, the peacekeepers help keep the balance through this war.

Its easy to pass the buck to Satan for the ones that do wrong and the ones who sit in jail for doing wrong. It would be of more help to these people to allow them to see that IT WAS THE PERSON< HIMSELF OR HERSELF that did the wrong. Satan is the scape goat, we all have an adversary, it is within the consciousness of every being. Some become victim to that adversary, and allow it to be the excuse (scapegoat) for their wrong doings. It would be a failure to these people that sit in jail to go tell them, its ok because you know what, its Satan making you do this. We need to allow mankind to take up for his own doings, his own actions, we need to hold man accountable for ones own life. If your doing wrong, and you know it, its YOUR wrong. You work out some sort of justification or excuse in your mind that makes it seem somewhat OK, so you can continue to do the wrong without too much guilt.

We have made God a God of war and separation. My spirit says 'no' to this.
Its not easy being raised in one idea and allowing myself the freedom to seek God in a different way then what I was taught. People can say I choose to ignore certain things or I only take what I like out of the Bible. Its not easy, to stand up for a belief that many will automatically judge me for. My spirit has pre pared me beyond messure for this road, my soul has gained much strength in this path for my spirit knew my soul would need this. My thoughts didnt change in a day, it took yrs. of seeking what didnt feel right to me and what did. To say Jesus did not teach us to use our spirit within us would be ignoring many parables that man didnt understand in his time. Now is the time to understand, now is the time to know, son of man, you are a son of Heavenly Father in spirit and you are a son of man till your dying day, in the flesh. Your flesh will return to your mother and your spirit will return to your Father. The sooner you accept you are loved unconditionally, the sooner the walls are broken that you have placed around your heart for Thee to come and show you things....things that have nothing to do with sins, but has everything to do with experiences and opportunities for the growth of your soul.

There is no truth in this world, its only belief. Belief should be based on what feels right to the spirit, not what is placed on the by another soul. I respect all paths...but mine has taken a turn from following the crowd, the only thing that seems like truth to me is my spirit. How can one thing be truth if all of our spirits are telling us different things? Im sure most Christians answer to that question is that the Devil is influencing me and leading me away from God. I say, Satan began to lead MANY MANY MANY people away from Thee a long long time ago. Truth is not a belief and a belief is not truth. Faith in a belief is truth only to the person with the faith in that belief. I wonder why Jesus always used to say...those with ears let them hear, those with eyes let them see. Was Jesus talking about...those with a humble heart can use their intuition (spiritual ears and eyes)?


Peace,
LV



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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reply to post by Ron Paul Girl
 


I think that means we are all born of the fleshly carnal (which the father of the flesh and of carnality and of this world is satan (he is god is this world right now ) ...and children of flesh feed the flesh which makes them more and more fleshly ...children of the spirit (those who are filled with the Holy Spirit) feed the spirit and the flesh just gets the basics then (under subjection) ....
So technically speaking we are born of God (our spirit is) and our flesh is of the earth (which earthly physical represents satan)
Since we are formed from the earth ...we are of the earth ..earthly sensual ...
We are also formed from the spirit (our deeper selves ) from the breath of God ..the spirit of life when he breathed in into us ...

At least that is how I understand it .


I think Romans 8 explains it better than I can .

www.blueletterbible.org...

There are lots of other passages
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

Jhn 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Jhn 3:31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.
Phl 3:19 Whose end [is] destruction, whose God [is their] belly, and [whose] glory [is] in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Jam 3:15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.

(Which all comes to back to why we need to be born again from flesh to spirit by accepting the Holy Spirit who is the teacher of spirit basically he helps lead us into going from carnal mindedness and fleshly earthly sensual to spiritual ) ...(I doubt I am making sense lol I have a hard time explaining stuff sometimes .even though I believe I understand it ..knowing how to explain it is difficult for me lol) ........
Of course you would need to do a reference search and take it all in context.....



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:16 PM
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reply to post by dooper
 


My children dont having a problem obeying. I have placed a trust in them through reasons and logic, in that they trust my answers and actions will be justrified with reasons and logic. I might have to sometimes act before I give the reasoning, but they are not so far below me that I dont owe them this. This gives them a feeling of self worth, that they are worthy of an explaination, with reasons.

It so easy for a partent to say, well so and so cant stay the night because I said so, or you cant go here or there just because I say so. These children are worth more then that, they are worth logical reasons, even if they wont understand the logic till in later life, at least they know they were worthy enough for me to give them reasons.

God gave us free will....we dont have to come to Thee, we dont have to let Thee become alive within our souls. This is why Thee shows patients and mercy and love....because THEE WILL NOT FORCE YOU.

Peace,
LV



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:29 PM
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Leo ...the problem is that everyone can say in their heart and feel in their spirit that something is right ..and it isnt ...like I know some people that believe if they buy alcohol and allow their teens to drink at home this is right and good ..because at least then they are not out somewhere else hiding to drink and getting killed driving around .
I personally believe that feeding them the alcohol and then allowing it at home is NOT RIGHT for any reason ...in fact it is condoning that behaviour ...and feeding it ...
(this is just an example) ...

So many people justify everything they do and can literally believe it is the right thing to do if they try hard enough ...

And as far as tossing out any word from the prophets (The bible) because you believe that God will teach you personally without any help from any book .
what about this
Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

How can you learn of the father unless you read the eye witness accounts of what he taught them ? you cant ...and as you can see there are thousands of texts written back then ..and of course none of them include the Lord Jesus Christ ..so how can you learn of who Christ was and what he wants to teach us unless you read what the apostles were taught by him and they have written about it so we too can know who he was ..what he did ..what he stood for ..what is the significance of why we need to know him etc etc .

That stuff does not just get implanted from our birth without being TAUGHT about it which is what the word is a school book of sorts also a direction book ..a diary of men who lived in those days as that was all happening .and a map to the spiritual and to the kingdom of God etc etc .....

If you wanted to know how to do algebra ..you would need to get a book and LEARN how would you not ? Of get a teacher who LEARNED HOW from a BOOK to teach you how ..you dont just wake up one day and because you wanted to know how ..it pops into your head and you just know it ...

Same goes with the bible .



posted on Oct, 26 2008 @ 04:47 PM
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Gramma no one is saying anything about your daughter being a bad mother .
The parent thing is only being used as an example of how God does us ..and why he disciplines etc ...

Please dont think that was what I was implying ..

And in no way do I believe Leo is not a believer because she says she is I have to believe her right ? ...who am I to question that ...

But I have always wondered how anyone who believes would not think that the word of God goes with believing ...how would you find out anything about then and now etc (examples) without the word ? ...The bible itself even says it was written for our example ...Why do people think they dont need any example ..they just know ...and dont need to learn anything from anyone ..
That was why the Apostles were sent two by two ..to go and SPREAD the WORD of GOD (the words which he spoke to them and THEY eventually WROTE DOWN in a book) not to mention they expounded on the scriptures that showed in the OT where Christ would come and what he would do when he came etc to show them from the OT how prophecy had been fulfilled) ......and then whoever they taught went and taught others etc etc ..teaching the WORD OF GOD ...
Thank God they wrote that word down ..because surely those who went and taught sort of added and took away from the word of mouth testimony (the more you pass it around if not written down word for word the more it changes .. (which is why we have so many different beliefs even within Christianity) ....now we have the WORD straight from those who witnessed it and now we can read it ourselves word for word...instead of believing some preacher or teacher etc who waters it down .misinterprets etc etc ....

I dont worship my bible ..and I believe there is lots we can learn from eachother ...and from teachers and preachers even ...and even from the things of the world we can learn stuff .....but I am so thankful I have that bible to go to and check for myself what was taught and what the meaning was for myself ...............



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