Christians...how do you justify all of this?

Originally posted by The time lord
The explantion is that, as Genesis 6 explains- The Son's of God had Children with the daughters of men. This created a hybrid race of Angel men Giants. Not only was the gene pool polluted of humans, so were the animals, maybe dinosaurs for all we know were hybrid experiments from the Angels, but what happenned polluted the human gene pool.
Is that not a good excuse? Is that not better than killing people for being in the wrong place and not believing.

So what you are saying is that christians (pro-lifers) don't have a problem with killing those whom they regard as being genetically inferior? This was just one of the first of many (cough) Final Solutions? That is so vile!

Originally posted by LDragonFire
The video is based on the Old Testament. I think its easy for all to see that this older part of the bible is barbaric, and Not so Perfect.

The New Testament is where the religion of love comes into play.

Until you get to the book of revelation and then it all goes to hell in a hand basket.

reply to post by Komodo


Thanks for sharing Kimodo, I will have to take your word for it. Im not being cynical or attempting to be funny, I just find some things to be les than believable when it comes to matters of faith.

Faith is a deadly vice, especially blind faith. It would be nice to know that there is a higher power in charge of this crazy world and that everything in the end will be ok. Unfortunately I only know the here and now, and the rest to me is just opinion.

yes... if you LOOK and see in the middle of any HOLY BIBLE, there is a book called PROVERBS. There are 31 of them. Read one chapter everyday.

(for example: (lets take today 3-06-08) I would open the Bible to the book called Proverbs 6, because it's the 6th day of the month. I would read the whole chapter (proverb) and tomorrow I would read the 7th chapter (proverb), rinse and repeat.

Sorry for the Christian lingo ( if there was any)

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Komodo

 

Proverbs, one for EVERY DAY of the month?!? You said there are 31 Proverbs, one for EVERY DAY of the month?!?

Gosh, can no one else see the illogic?

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2

 

paradox, sorry I don't use all of the hyphens, I would think, this is my critical thinking hat speaking, if you were so enlightened, you wuld know the difference between the words 'there' and 'their' and the contraction 'they're'.

Just an observation.......

Hint...homonyms are great, but if you want to impress people with your knowledge maybe you should know the difference.

Since it's an online forum, and we make allowances for spelling errors and such, I will apologize in advance...BUT! IF someone professes to KNOW the truth, that one should at least be able, or have his/her god be able, to compose a post that comports with standard English usage.

We all can make typos, myself included. I, though, tend to read what I post, and edit mistakes if I see them.

Adding...I do this to clarify my post, and to (hopefully) not subject readers to bad spelling and punctuation.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

What are you on about? are you even replying to the right person? what post? because Ive no idea. You cant spell or capitalize and your commenting on spelling and punctuation?

I havnt even wrote the word they're or their on this board unless it was the retracted post? which was a bible quote of Jesus and I forget if I wrote anything else now. And yes thanks I do know the difference and how to punctuate, tho sometimes I realize its ok to lighten up and relax because not everybody is 'so uptight to comment on a spelling mishap' or lack of care to spell it properly in the first place. Those egos are all doing overtime and mine isnt excluded Im human.

By the way Its 7.30 AM England time Ive had no sleep and so dont even begin to think I care about a spelling mishap how trivial. Anyway I dont know where you mean if it was me.

I havnt said I came here to enlighten anybody either? you all do that yourselves.. or not even.

All I did was post one post then quickly remove it cause I didnt think it fitted with the video questions, there was me thinking I'l do the OP a favour and keep it on the video not the entire bible

Now I see its all going into everything anyway, cool. I can post it again but I want to back up and read what Elysha said about it. Tho right now I will probably go sleep.


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[edit on 7/3/2008 by Sauron]

reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2


I made mistakes, typos, in my post. I just try to make sense, when I post, that's all....

Add...second line....umm, has to be relevant, otherwise it's a one-line post...so, ummm....I eallylike the OP ideas, and I wish that would get discussed more!

[edit on 7-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

Your definitely welcome BlackOps719!!

Naw, I wasn't taking ya cynical or being funny either; when it comes to rl issues, I'm all about being serious and giving everyone a second chance, like someone did for me once.

~~Faith is a deadly vice, especially blind faith. It would be nice to know that there is a higher power in charge of this crazy world and that everything in the end will be ok.

*looks at you seriously**... I REALLY know what you mean!! Even as a Christian, I see all this crap going on in the world and the nation we once called One Nation under God.. but it's SO far from God... I seriously doubt we'll ever be the same. It challenges my faith to it's very core. It will only be ok when Jesus returns and makes it ok.

It's sad BlackOps, as a Christian, I see the Christian community as a whole playing 'church' ya know? I get so angry because like the Jews we are suppose to be 'changing' the world for the better .. but, it's all about how many people we can fill the pews with and just like in the days of Jesus, they didn't even make room for the non-Jews to worship God and turned it into a market place to ........make money. Much .. like .....today. the world is going to hell .. litterly and it's sing a few songs on Sunday morning and Easter and Christmas and we feel better.

However, 6 months ago, my wife was out of a job, rent was due (875.00) in 2 weeks, bills , IRS, Bankruptcy.. name it.. it was bad..I walked over to my wife who was sitting on the couch and gave me a look of such depair, I buried my face in my couch and wept out load and said these very words...

"God, if you don't save us NOW, then no one is. Save us God! Save our finances, our children, because if you don't save us now, not tomorrow, not yesterday.. not in 5 minutes from now ... THEN NO ONE CAN!!. Save us Lord!" As I pounded my fist on the pillows in earnest plea.

After 10 minutes of weeping my eyes out, we went to bed. The next day, my wife called me at work, crying and said...."Honey....i'm ok.. but I wanted to let you know I just got a job.. for $20.00 an hour" I looked at the clock....it's was 10am.....

That's the God of the Universe I know!

BlackOps, There IS hope in God! There NEVER will be hope in the world, But, we all have to reach out to the hand that is always there.

LORD, I say unto my Lord, ....
Father in Heaven, I ask, that you do something, special for BlackOps today, something from you that will bring Hope to him and all his struggles and every day trails. Something that will fan the small light of faith you've given to every man woman and child on earth .. I ask Lord for Mercy, and Grace in BlackOps world because he needs a second chance....like you gave me...remember? When no one gave me the time of day....you did Lord. Speak to BlackOps today and to everyone that is in despair and is looking for that Hope that only you can give.

In Jesus Name.

Originally posted by BlackOps719
reply to post by Komodo

 

Thanks for sharing Kimodo, I will have to take your word for it. Im not being cynical or attempting to be funny, I just find some things to be les than believable when it comes to matters of faith.

Faith is a deadly vice, especially blind faith. It would be nice to know that there is a higher power in charge of this crazy world and that everything in the end will be ok. Unfortunately I only know the here and now, and the rest to me is just opinion.

I am going to reply without reading the rest. You can not take the Old Testament and compare it with Chrianity. The New Testament is Christian. And from what I have read a lot of the old laws were abolished with the verses from Matthew:

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

These were borrowed from this site... there are several translations.

bibleresources.bible.com

You want to quote scripture from the old testament, which was fulfilled by christ, then go to the Hebrews, or Jews and find out why Thier God wants them to kill for anything not normal. I am gay, yet I still believe in the Christ. I know for most Christian churches there is problem with that, but from what my god makes me feel there a lot worse problems to worry about then being gay.

What I am trying to say, is, take the old testament and compare it to the love the sinner but not the sin attituda and you get the reason why Christians do not selebrate the sabbath or kill homo's, or kill prostitutes, or, you get the picture. Christians love all. Or they should and not treat anybody differently. You should change the thread title to "JUstify this Jews" and leave the christians out of it.

But before somebody decides I am anti jew, I am half jewish, so there...

I am going to reply without reading the rest. You can not take the Old Testament and compare it with Chrianity. The New Testament is Christian. And from what I have read a lot of the old laws were abolished with the verses from Matthew:

1Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

These were borrowed from this site... there are several translations.

bibleresources.bible.com

You want to quote scripture from the old testament, which was fulfilled by christ, then go to the Hebrews, or Jews and find out why Thier God wants them to kill for anything not normal. I am gay, yet I still believe in the Christ. I know for most Christian churches there is problem with that, but from what my god makes me feel there a lot worse problems to worry about then being gay.

What I am trying to say, is, take the old testament and compare it to the love the sinner but not the sin attituda and you get the reason why Christians do not selebrate the sabbath or kill homo's, or kill prostitutes, or, you get the picture. Christians love all. Or they should and not treat anybody differently. You should change the thread title to "JUstify this Jews" and leave the christians out of it.

But before somebody decides I am anti jew, I am half jewish, so there...

reply to post by Komodo


Kind of a shame, you cannot convey your thougts coherently.

We'd like to know how you feel, but we get lost in the rhetoric....and dare I say, the poor spelling?

But I stand on my first impression...the rhetoric....spelling can be corrected, it's the core beliefs that need to be addressed.

reply to post by Komodo


Thank you for this. I thought after posting mine, I had something else to do, but then, I did not even read the other posts. I think that god decided to ease up when christ came. I can feel it in my own soul. if we were living under Juedao law, I would be dead at leat 15 years ago. I have been the avid student of satanism(both versions. actual satanism and levay which wouold say satan and god do not exist), wicca, druidism, hedonism, and am now studying islam(why are we fighting, they are also waiting the return of Jesus.).

I hope That the OP realizes that the old testament does not have the same meaning that the New Testament does. I have a hard time with the whole Canaan thing happened. In the Bible the Isrealites were charged with going in and killing every cannaanite man woman and child to get the land they were promised. But this land was Ismeals, which god said he would give the muslims........ so obviously something survived the carnage....

I am off topic........ You reallyu need to ask a christian about stuff before you post it. If you decide to work on Saturday that is your perogative. God will choose.

edited by myself

I responded to kamodo because that is the first typed prayer that i have ever seen.......do you think god has a computer??????????

any who. OP You have a good idea, but please read the whole bible before putting something like this up. I do agree though that ancient Jew practices were not fair. And Completely F!@#$%^ up

[edit on 7-3-2008 by Timmyboi23]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Komodo

 

Kind of a shame, you cannot convey your thougts coherently.

We'd like to know how you feel, but we get lost in the rhetoric....and dare I say, the poor spelling?

But I stand on my first impression...the rhetoric....spelling can be corrected, it's the core beliefs that need to be addressed.

What is it with you and the spelling? Why do you feel the urge to nitpick and belittle everyone based on their grammar and spelling accuracy? This is not a spelling bee and it is not fourth grade English class. Please do us a favor and give it a rest, nobody is being graded here.

And for the record, thoughts is spelled T-H-O-U-G-H-T-S

reply to post by BlackOps719


Oh, dear...I was trying to be on your side...and I made a spelling error, well I guess I'm 'pot' calling the 'kettle'....again!

OK, my bad, I make a mistake...I at least try to edit my posts, and correct them....but we're off-topic...

I like your original post, BlackOps...

My left hand ain't workin' so well, so my typing is suffering, at the moment...

Since I'm using a QWERTY keyboard, it's what I learned to type on, I have to check what the left hand is doing...and I make mistakes!! My right hand does the editing, when I see it...and I don't see all.

reply to post by BlackOps719


thoughts...thoughts...thoughts....

Yeah, if I focus, I can type all of the letters on the left side of the keyboard...you see, my LEFT hand (I held the shift key down, just then, with my right hand, and used my LEFT to type 'left'...)

See, if I pay attention, I can use the left hand...and if I make a mistake that I notice before 'posting', then I can fix it....

I try very hard to make sure that every post I write is complete, that is what I am trying to convey.

Maybe others don't care as much...it shows. I try to be as perfect as I can be. Sorry if that annoys you.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

To me being a Christian is solely about what is written in the Gospels about Christ's life and teachings. The fact that these happen to be included in the Bible does not mean that Christians have to follow and believe the other things written in the Bible.

The only parts of the Bible i believe are relevant to Christians are the four gospels; in which Jesus himself said for 'he without sin to cast the first stone' so i fail to see how you link Christian's with stoning, especially as it is islamic countries that still employ this practice.

To me most of the bible is meaningless, I am a CHRISTian which means i follow the teachings of Christ, which I think is to basically live a good life, try not to judge people and help those you can along the way.

Also i don't see why modern day Christians should have to justify anything that was written or that happened hundreds or thousands of years ago. You are right in saying that Christians of old did terrible things; people complain about islamic terrorists but the Christian crusades and inquisitions were a lot worse, but we shouldn't have to justify this.

It wasn't us that did this, and it isn't Christians that are doing these things now. These things happened hundreds of years ago when pretty much every event was put down to God's will. We are more educated now and a lot more civilised, it is in countries where the population is still controlled, uneducated and dictated to, with women still being stoned and thieves hands still being cut off, that people should be asked to justify these things.

Also the Bible is not primarily Christian. The entire Old Testament, which is where you're obviously getting these ideas of stoning being ok from, is Jewish and is the only part of the Bible that Judaism uses.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by owzitgarn]

I can't answer if God has a PC or not...but He wanted one He would. ) He's God ..right?

However, I do think he can read prayer weather they're typed or written.. why? BECAUSE HE'S GOD!!! LOL.. sheesh! oh you of little faith.. kinda like moving a mountain if you have enough faith. wow! what a concept!

and since you're quoting me.. it's NOT Kamodo.. it's

KOMODO.. as in the Dragon.....*sigh*.. you know .. right .. from the Komodo Islands...

sorry .. I'll stop now

Originally posted by BlackOps719
I would love to hear a few opinions from some of the resident bible thumpers, justify this if you can.

Well, so much for not wishing to flame anyone. You ask for Christian members to contribute to your discussion by referring to them as "resident bible thumpers'.

What a wonderful start to the discussion.

I've seen the video before, and yes, taken literally, (which the bible should be), it IS repulsive.

Religion is the oldest con in the world. It preys on peoples fears, uses some simple tricks and illusions to make thier frontman(Jesus, for Chistians, 12 disciples, more like stagehands, probably even pickpocketed the crowd during the show, I mean services.

These men are meant to be seen as more than human, and they can frighten you, and threaten to send you to hell to burn for eternatiy unless you give them money.

I think Goerge Carling somes it up best here in this 10 minute bit from one of his stand up acts.

www.youtube.com...

After I watched this, I realized how rediculous religion really is.

Even if your a Christian watchm it's funnt a heck.

Originally posted by crestone

Originally posted by runetang
BlackOps,

The only stoning and rampant murdering going on was done by Jews in the Old Testament, or Gentiles/Jews/Romans stoning Christian missionaries in the New Testament.

But no where does it advocate stoning, or any other violence on an other man. At least the Christian teachings dont ..

You are pulling my leg, right? I probably misunderstand your last two sentences, or you have never read the OT.

No, its true. The ONLY portions of the Bible where it advocates stoning people, killing people, or anything else like this, are Jewish portions. I don't say this because I dislike Jews, no, I say this because its truth. The Tanakh, or Old Testament, is the single location that you will find words advocating stoning people or punishment via death, OR military incursions resulting in slaughter. ALLOFTHIS .. is Old Testament.. and ALLOFTHIS .. is Jewish religious history.

I repeat, the Christian Teachings, or New Testament, DO NO ADVOCATE STONING, KILLING, OR HURTING ANOTHER MAN FOR ANY REASON, EVEN AN EVIL MAN, EVEN A MAN ATTACKING YOU.

Christianity teaches us to turn the cheek. If you slap me, slap me twice.

But I am not going to resort to your trivial level of violence; violence is an expression .. it's when you can no longer express yourself through communication, you get violent. Christianity is all about communication. Not once have I found a passage in the New Testament where Christians are advocating stoning people. However, I've read about poor TIMOTHY GETTING STONED .. and not off the Qaneh Bos'm, he was martyred.

Try me. Stop all the talk and back it up with some evidence.
A CHALLENGE TO ANY MEMBER OF ATS:

Copy and paste at least three sentences from the Bible, New Testament onward, that specifically describes Christians advocating the stoning or killing of a non-Christian man. One of these three quotes has to be a sentence showing Christians actually carrying out such a violent act, it has to be Christians killing a man, executing a man, or invading a land and killing all the men women and children. The invading force has to be Christian.

I sit back confidently knowing that it is impossible to find these three quotes, they do not exist. So this whole thread? is pointless. and its disinformation at that. It proves that people do not understand the truth about religion, that they believe weird stuff that isnt even true! JEWS stoned people .. JEWS executed people for crimes .. sheesh .. Christians did none of this in the Bible.

[edit on 3/7/2008 by runetang]

I think a clear distinction needs to be made here between "a peaceful religion", which Christianity, along with the majority of religious movements through the ages, certainly is not, and "peaceful followers of Christianity" which is what I would claim to be (were I not such a poor version of a Christian in any case).

The fact is that suggesting that Christianity itself has ever claimed to be "peaceful" is slightly misleading. Violence, unfortunately, litters Christian history, from the crucifixion through persecution of Jesus' disciples, the crusades, and more modern examples of Christian martyrdom and atrocities carried out in its name.

I'm firmly of the belief that blaming a religion - any religion - of inspiring violence or hate is a nonsense - a bit like blaming a gun for shooting someone. People come to religious beliefs for any number of reasons. Some use it as a crutch to support them through suffering. Others aren't suffering but still find it a useful doctrine by which to live their lives.

Others use it as an excuse for their own purposes. Put simply - I believe in X [where X is the deity of your choosing]. My neighbour doesn't. I am therefore justified in taking my neighbours country, in order to spread the word of X.

The point is that X isn't to blame, I am - I'm the one with the anger, the greed, the jealousy and the bloodlust. X is my excuse. NOT my reason - whatever is said about X in my bible or bible equivalent.

The Bible, if you are a non-believer and want to find its use, can at the very least be taken as a valuable resource in the study of a particular group's attitude towards their own history and future. In other words, how they viewed their ancestors, how they looked back on enslavement in Egypt, etc etc.

To believers it is a spiritual document which contains guidance on how life should be lived. To suggest that any document, simply because it discusses God smiting infidels in some barbaric fashion, is the reason followers are OK to exact the same punishment on their own enemies, is naive and misses the point. People behave like b*stards because they ARE b*stards, not because God told them to do so. Ultimately, if you took the blaming of religion for violence to its logical conclusion, and removed religion altogether, you would find that the b*stards still remained. They would simply find a new excuse.

Because of all this, and because the valuable teachings and moral code of Jesus in the bible does not make the bible or Christianity the inventor of being nice, I don't believe either that violence in the bible should undermine the qualities of those good teachings. The bible speaks of desperate times - and its action happens in a region beset by war for centuries (it still is). (Very) Broadly speaking, the Bible discusses the good that can come out of suffering pain and misery. This is A Good Thing. In my view.

LW