Christians...how do you justify all of this?

Originally posted by drevill
reply to post by BlackOps719

 

Capital punishment exsist's today in many countries in various forms.
why? For Punishment and Deterent AND to also keep the people safe, is this not true of most, if not all types of rules? Rules are there to protect the majority from the minority.

I'm just curious what you meant by the last part of this statement. Why would the majority need to be protected from the minority? What power does the minority have that threatens the majority?

test

reply to post by enchantress62


hello

just this,

Rules against burglary 1 person can ransack many peoples homes. there is a Law against it to protect many people from one.

david

Here's my opinon on this;

Coming from someone who was conservitavely Christian for 10 years (no longer religious) I can easily tell how you were mislead and how you are on point with some things.

First off, have you not heard of Jesus??? Jesus came and basically started the New testament (the one that Christian's follow). Many of those "repulsive" verses are from the Old Testament. That was before Jesus came to die for everyone's sins. Before Jesus came any evil or sin was worth death but Jesus died for those sins and now we can be forgiven. That is what REAL Christians believe. Also, think about the times back then. Women weren't seen as equals and EVERYONE had slaves. Plus, the Titus 2:9 verse is referring to workers in general to do all that you do thoroughly.

"Buying and selling slaves is fine. Beating slaves is fine. Slaves are to show entire and true fidelity." - from the movie

Have you checked any other religious books to see what THEY say about slaves back when they had to fire up a clay oven just to make a piece of bread.

And that Isaiah 13 verse (he didn't even specify the actual verse) is about God sending his people into war. It's gonna be gruesome because in the Old Testament God is a loving but harsh God.

Just because it's called the Bible doesn't mean its gotta be all luvey dubey and all happy. This book is 5000 years old (some parts). Its also used as a history book, meaning its got some sentences about history. And history isn't always nice. ya digg?

This dude does not sound very educated on the bible. Not saying he's dumb, just saying he doesn't have his facts straight.

Its time to stop using the Bible in weddings and hotel rooms? What about all of the inspirational and life saving verses in the bible. You have to find ten examples of which I could find worse ones that make sense but they're supposed to be in the bible anyway because it's not a fairy tale. It's really close to how those certain people were living.

I'm not a Christian anymore but I did go to many Christian conferences, conventions, countless sermons, bible studies, youth groups, retreats, and self-study. I'm not saying I have all the answers but I've heard A LOT from both sides and i've heard better anti-bible arguments from 6th graders.

reply to post by Hendrxapprentice

I think everyone's heard of Jesus. Although he seems like a "nice guy", he can be repulsive too.

Jesus promised to send people to eternal fire because he was too wretched to support himself.

Matthew 25
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels
42 For I was an hungered, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

Jesus warns people to fear god because he can kill them and send them to hell.

Luke 12
5 But I will forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear him, which after he hath killed hath power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear him.

Jesus warns people to repent or perish either by human sacrifice or death by falling building.

Luke 13
1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

People are threatened with burning in flaming fire if they don't believe in god.

2 thessalonians
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ
9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Jesus promises to kill children because he was angry at their mother.

Revelation 2
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

reply to post by finnegan


as has been brought out exhaustively by me, hell is not a place of eternal torment and pain.

two choices jesus is presenting, life or death (non-existance)

if thats a cruel god to you, if the only way you could love god is if he was completely unjust and just lets you do whatever you want, then i feel sorry for you.

reply to post by miriam0566


Ok, so maybe hell is a wonderful fairytale land, I don't know. But no need to feel sorry for me because I'll be there riding roller coasters and relaxing on the beach sipping pina coladas. I'm not so sure about the flaming eternal fires though.

Now if I could just get him to redact his promise to kill those chldren.

Originally posted by finnegan
reply to post by miriam0566

 

Ok, so maybe hell is a wonderful fairytale land, I don't know. But no need to feel sorry for me because I'll be there riding roller coasters and relaxing on the beach sipping pina coladas. I'm not so sure about the flaming eternal fires though.

Now if I could just get him to redact his promise to kill those chldren.

there are plenty of cases in the bible where a person was put to death by god, and no action was taken against his family.

maybe her kids (not nessesarily young) where just as guilty as her? i mean its possible right?

Originally posted by miriam0566
maybe her kids (not nessesarily young) where just as guilty as her? i mean its possible right?

I'm not really sure but perhaps he was speaking metaphorically and meant that he was going to kill all the phoenician followers of baal. Someone might have followed through on that because I don't know anyone who worships baal today. There's another topic though.

reply to post by finnegan


The children were not babies born of sexual union, but were persons born in Adam who received the word/thoughts/lies of the adultress, and became by the internalizing of it, her children.

In the Word of God all the children of wrath are persons born in Adam who become the "children" of the devil sometime after the age of accountability, by believing his lies in direct rejection of the "Light that lights every Adam person born into the world". John reports Jesus/Salvation, is the the Light that lights every man/Adam/human being that comes into the world.

As to terrorists and enemies of God, they have no value of their own human life and put their own seed to death by human sacrifice, abortion, infanticide, and abandonment. If God wipes out a wicked city or nation by a nuke, then "all souls are His", -as He states in His Word, and babies born in Adam, who have never reached the age of accountability and so have no deeds done with any intent of good or evil to answer for on the day of judgment, are covered by the blood of Atonement offered once for all souls born in Adam; but they have no rewards of Glory, having being denied that by their own parents' choices of evil which brought judgment on them in the flesh.

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Psalm50]

[edit on 7-4-2008 by Psalm50]

To those who have posted from Enoch, on the sons of God coming in to the daughters of Adam/men, I want to point out that the current translations of Enoch were made 200 years ago and at that time the "cutting of roots" was lost in meaning, but today we would translate that as "gene splicing", and so giants/titans/nephillim/dead ones [in spirit], were born to them.

For one thing yes the bible is not very true and is false. But the only true word of god is The Book of Mormon. It is just basically the true bible. Even the king james version of the bible has a lot of false things but the book of mormon clears it up. And in the video link where he says we must kill everyone who doesnt do those things, that is what agency is for. God does not make you do anything he just gives you guidlines. Free agency is what separates gods plan from satans.

this thread is great

christians got nothen

reply to post by Dark_Ace

There are 48 pages, where most of us Christians have MORE-THAN-APTLY explained and enlightened the questions of the OP.
Go, READ THEM, please.

reply to post by Dark_Ace


Actually we have God. Atheists fully concede they have nothing

Isn't that their whole point, faith in nothing?

It was addressed.



[edit on 4/19/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Mind you I am speaking from my own perspective here and cannot and will not speak for all Christians.
I think a big big part of the problem is a lack of understanding of the languages, and histories of the people who transcribed the bible. I think that another common mistake is caused by not understanding the processes involved that determines what in the bible is considered canonical or not canonical and why.
For an example the mindsets of Peter and Paul and where their understandings of the teachings of Christ are very different, I look to the circumcision debate.
Why? Well because Peter was very very jewish in his belief systems. i.e. laws about circumcision and what have you, and apparently had a difficult time accepting that their relevance was now suspect in light of the sacrifice of Christ.
It is not easy to turn your back on generations of tradition so who could blame him, and so he purposed that in order to become a Christian you had to first convert to Judaism, this of course required circumcision.
Now Paul was not so much interested in the "older laws" This is demonstrated over the topic of circumcision where Paul refers to people of the Jewish faith as "mutilators of the flesh."
Was this because Paul hated Jews that he would use such a derogatory phrase? Most scholars don't think so, it is simply the way a man who spoke greek would turn a phrase. But because Paul refers to the jews as "mutilators of the flesh" some have speculated that this means that jews are reprehensible people according to what is said in the new testament.
Another aspect to consider is many of Paul's writings are nothing more than letters to a specific church concerning very specific things. Sadly in my opinion many people do not read what is being said in the context to what was going on at the time and place that these letters where written. This has created a great deal of confusion as to what many of the letters actually say.
An example of this is the statement, "The dead in Christ shall rise first." This has come to mean for many that upon the second coming of Christ the Christians who have died will rise to meet Christ in the air before the believers who still walk the earth. Many scholars contend that what this is, nothing more than Paul again turning phrases that at the time would have been common to the region. A more accurate understanding may be "Don't worry about those who have died they are taken care of." Why? Well because as Paul understood it the second coming of Christ was going to be like next week or something, and that is what he told his churches. Well as time went on members of the various churches began to die off and the people to whom he was addressing were concerned for their souls. Paul Stating "The dead in Christ shall rise first" was his method of speaking to bring comfort. The congregation at the time would most certainly have understood this statement to mean "Don't worry about them they are taken care of", not as a literal bursting from the grave.
I would speculate that a large amount of the bible is misunderstood in this fashion, even more so in the old testament than in the new as the old testament is an even older text. I mean has anyone here tried to read old English? I would imagine that many of the more ancient tongues are as different from their more modern counter parts as Modern English is from old English.
I hope this makes since.
I think that it should also be noted that many of the books in the new testament was included in the Bible (namely the letters written by Paul) were only included in the cannon because they have been determined with a great deal of certainty to actually be written by the Apostle Paul with no real concern as to its content. For example I think it is Colossians that is basically nothing more than a greek thank you note written by Paul for donations received to continue his ministry. Thats not say that there is no wisdom that can be found in that letter.

[edit on 04/13/2008 by sacerd]

For me being a Christian Mystic and having exerienced directly, the divine realities, which are described and hinted at in the Bible....I know the Bible to consist of the following:

1. Literalism
2. Symbolism
3. Observational records
4. Poetry
5. Multi-leveled, multi layered mystical truths that are multi-dimensional in meaning the higher you progress spiritually.

Overall, the book is/was a bunch of sign posts and instructions that guided and allowed me to surpass logic, reason, faith, and specifically to surpass the limits of words themselves.......and lead to......drum roll please...

Direct experience of God, which to me happened at 25....and has been the greatest highlight of my life. Everything else pales in comparison to this one event....and we're all here to specifically be able to achieve this reality and help others to realize this.

THE PROBLEM: is the dogmatic/fundamentalist literalism that limits people, churches, organizations to a certain view where anything outside of this view is the enemy. Because of this we've had wars, lynchings, slavery, fill in the blank........it goes on and on.

But, if you experience these divine realities you become a peaceful, full of love, divine optimist thats the furthest thing from wars and judgments and hatred.

The best thing is, upon reaching this experience....you KNOW first hand that God is real and that when it's time to die, you simply take off your flesh as if its an old jacket and continue on living in the next realm!!!!!!!

If the majority of us reached this spiritual state, we'd be living in a real modern day utopia, which one day will come....but first we have to go through some really rough times, which are presently starting, before we get to that state of society.

reply to post by BlackOps719


Like the video mentions, most people have never read the bible - and many that have, don't truly understand just what bizzarre stuff they're reading and being asked to accept as 'God's Word'. It's nothing of the sort of course - it's just a book written by jewish religious extremists many millenia ago...

J.

Sorry..my apologies..mispost...will reply later.

Orangetom



[edit on 25-4-2008 by orangetom1999]

First let me say that I have not read all of the replies your original post has received thus far. So others may have already stated what I am about to say.

That having been said, you have a pre-supposition that Christianity is a religion of peace.

Jesus himself says in Matthew 10:34, "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword."

All who do not accept the free gift (i.e. Jesus) God has given to all people will be counted as enemies of God.

God is not ultimately going to decide who will enter heaven. YOU will. It's like playing a game of Chess. One person makes a move, and then the other person makes a move.

God sending His son Jesus to die on a cross for our sin, and then raising Him from the dead was HIS move.

All God asks of us is that we call on the name of His son Jesus, and we will be saved and live eternally in heaven with God.

In regards to the hypocrisy you mentioned, unfortunately whenever people are involved, many of them do NOT follow the whole Bible. Some Christians pick and choose those things they are going to believe, and toss out the rest.

Some factions state that miracles "died out with the apostles". I know this is false, man-made doctrine. I have seen many miracles performed right before my own eyes. Sometime God has used me, and sometimes God has used others I was with to perform His miracles.

But are you willing to damn your own spirit to hell because of a bunch of ill-informed, hypocritical people?

Sure, Christians make mistakes. We make LOTS of them. But we will not be here for the coming troubles. We are going to be supernaturally taken off the earth to a great 7 year feast with God. (Many Christians will also debate this point, but if you truly search the New Testament, you will find this to be true.)