Christians...how do you justify all of this?

TXMACHINEGUNDLR,

Don't start with Genesis. But if you wanted to start in the Old Testament, start in Proverbs or Job. There are 31 Proverbs, 1 for every day of the month. Job is to belived to be the first book ever written. If you start in the New Testament, and ever wondered WHY is called New Testament?. read

Acts chapter 8 verse 1-4

Then,

Acts chapter 9:1-43

Then,

Acts chapters 26-28.

Backstory: Paul has went to Rome, to preach the Good News and is arrested and accused by his OWN people (JEWS) of heresy. Interesting isn't? wow, sounds like someone else I know who was arrested for the same thing..years before.. and oddly enough.. by the same people.

However,

Rom 10:8 What the scripture says is this: "God's message is near you, on your lips and in your heart"---that is, the message of faith that we preach.
Rom 10:9 If you confess that Jesus is Lord and believe that God raised him from death, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For it is by our faith that we are put right with God; it is by our confession that we are saved.
Rom 10:11 The scripture says, "Whoever believes in him will not be disappointed."
Rom 10:12 This includes everyone, because there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles; God is the same Lord of all and richly blesses all who call to him.
Rom 10:13 As the scripture says, "Everyone who calls out to the Lord for help will be saved."
Rom 10:14 But how can they call to him for help if they have not believed? And how can they believe if they have not heard the message? And how can they hear if the message is not proclaimed?
Rom 10:15 And how can the message be proclaimed if the messengers are not sent out? As the scripture says, "How wonderful is the coming of messengers who bring good news!"
Rom 10:16 But not all have accepted the Good News. Isaiah himself said, "Lord, who believed our message?"
Rom 10:17 So then, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message comes through preaching Christ.

Originally posted by TXMACHINEGUNDLR
I dont know, I wonder the same thing from time to time. I cant get through Gen without yelling BS! about 20 times...I believe in God, but I dont believe in many of the books in the bible. Most of the stuff I believe is out of faith. I have no proof, but I do for whatever weird reason have faith.................that seems to be enough.....My own feelings do get in the way whenever I remind myself that it is mostly jewish crapola, remade for a new religion.....but then I take a happy pill and all is right again.

BUT...........if God came to me and told me to do something you better believe I would do it. My only line in the sand would be, I could not hurt innocent people. Other than that, I pretty much owe God everything so that would be that.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Elisha4Yah

 

Elisha, with respect...look at the video again!!!!

Alrighty, doing what you've asked and I'm stopping at 2:21. Here is the verses Exodus 31:14-16 (KJV) Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant.

So who is speaking? The LORD
Unto who? Moses.
Who is Moses speaking to? The children of Israel.
Do the children of Israel keep the Sabbath???...............

Who are Christians? Gentiles grafted into the VINE.
Why? To provoke jealousy unto a disobedient nation (among other reasons) but going with the flow here.
Who is LORD of the Sabbath???.................is it Wal-Mart, Lowes, McDonalds??? America??? Israel??? Can you answer that question?

(Romans 11:23)
And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.


(Acts 13:47)
For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

(Isaiah 61:1)
The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

....The grace of the LORD to set us free from the hold/bondage of being 'under' the law.

(Galatians 4:25)
For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

With respect, I prefer not to continue watching that ten minute ignorance displayed in that video. Because it has nothing to do with those who believe upon the Son of God. You might want to ask a Jew

“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation.”

— Herbert Spencer


It is truly sad how people are willing to gamble eternity on a you tube video.

They will study evolution for years at college.

Yet never read the bible enough to understand it.

Compared to eternity this life on earth will be forgotten.

Just wonder if say even a .00001% chance it's all true, wouldn't it be wise to spend some time truly studying it with an open mind in light of eternity?

reply to post by crestone


One thing that has been missed and is vital. When the old testament was
written people were under God's law. God can be wrathful and judgemental and angry at times.
He made it impossible for all of His laws to be kept, in hopes that people
would not look to themselves for understanding, strength, etc. but that
they would look to Him. When they failed to do this, He loved us so
much that He sent His son Jesus into the world as flesh and blood so
we may live eternally with Him. This began a new covenant between all the people and God. Also known as the New Testament. He knew that His son would be killed by the people He so loved. and yet He sent Him here for the sole purpose of dying in order for all of mankind to Live eternally.

This is a free gift that God gave to us. If we believe(trust Him) that every single sin we have ever commited or will commit has already been for given. This is salvation. Once you are saved, there is nothing you could have or can do to undo this free gift. All sin is the exact same in God's
eyes. It is only man's eyes that sin differs. As long as we live on earth there will always be consequences for the wrong choices we make. However all we need to do is ask God's forgiveness and there are no consequences with Him. His love for us will never change.

When the world began, God had intended perfect paradise. There was no physical death. However, when Adam and Eve did the one thing God had ask them not to do. Sin entered the world, as such so did death. All of the horrors that you read about in the OT are a result of all sin. One thing God gave us was free will; The freedom to choose our own path. He never chooses for us. He sometimes intervenes and always has the power to. The OT is a result of man's right to choose and not always choosing the best path.

It is very difficult to pick up a bible and immediately know what God means
or the intent behind certain scriptures.This is known as God's wisdom. I believe the first thing a person who is searching for truth should do is ask God to reveal Himself to you. Believe that He will and He will.

Hope this helps some. Just my 2 cents.

PS: The thread title is this; Christians...how do you justify all of this?

Here's the answer...ARE YOU READY??? Drum roll please!!!

Romans 5:1
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

The End. And goodnight.

There is truth in all religions but due to Man's ego much of the truth is tweak to feed the ego. That is why I feel it is important not to justify why 'MY' religion is the only truth, but to think critically for yourself and filter what is the not-truth.

It is not really hard to filter the not-truth. Those ideas that separate mankind,create different group of egos(race/nation/classes) are ones which you might want to take caution against. With due respect to Bible, many stuff there are not as black and white as your self-groups told you. Remember there is always gray area, anything that point you to the extreme are not-truth.

reply to post by Komodo


Proverbs, one for EVERY DAY of the month?!? You said there are 31 Proverbs, one for EVERY DAY of the month?!?

Gosh, can no one else see the illogic?

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


Eisha.. you are very presuming toward people whom you dont even know.
Dont take offense but I can feel your ego from here swelling and Im greatful for the answer but you dont seem to comprehend the light from the dark In yourself either to misjudge my intentions as you did. Is that an advantage in heaven? Ego? I withdrew the post about 3 minutes after I posted it... as I said to keep in track with the OP and video? out of respect. I was just writing a post about the blatant racist slavery in the bible until I read your post.

You have gone and presumed that Im

1. Non believer.
2. Trying to use scripture against you
3. Removed my post for your own 'interesting!!' conspiracy related view.

Truth is your being paranoid, selfish and egotistical and Im just asking questions as I see fit.

As I said, I want to 'make sense'.. so I asked a question from the bible cause its about the bible. Where did you find the right to judge my intent behind my writing? I think you have been in to many debates maybe. lol

Peace in the ALL.

reply to post by clemonte


clemonte, more 'circular' reasoning, or really desperate attempts to try to justify obvious contradictions written into the bible.

corrected spelling, trying to 'deny ignorance'...

[edit on 7-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

Paradox2, I am sorry that you deleted your previous post before I had an opportunity to read it.

Just to point this out, but your views and opinions are as valid and welcome as the next persons. Please do not sell short your own beliefs for the benefit of anyone else on this thread.

By all means, post what you feel is truth. That is all anyone can ask

I would invite you to repost your previous words, as Im sure we would all like to see for ourselves. Thanks.

Could you or any other Christians posting here, maybe take each of the points made in the video and explain what is really meant by them and how they are worked / viewed in modern society please, just to provide clarification and prevent the misunderstanding that the video was obviously designed to create.

I will try. It is late here and I just stumbled onto this thread, so I will add more later.

The first point is with regards to OT law about the sabbath. Jesus says in Mark 2:23-28

23One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and as his disciples walked along, they began to pick some heads of grain. 24The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"

25He answered, "Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry and in need? 26In the days of Abiathar the high priest, he entered the house of God and ate the consecrated bread, which is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions."

27Then he said to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."

This was one of the many examples of how Jesus' coming modified the Law. He stood up against the legalistic state of Judaism, and showed that under the new Covenant, as someone mentioned earlier, the laws were updated for a new follower. The ten commandments are important but we remember what Christ said about the new law in Matthew 7

1"Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

3"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

and Luke 6 (th golden rule)

31Do to others as you would have them do to you.

32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.

The father showed mercy to the world by giving us his son so that we may be pure in the eyes of God. Because of this, God says not to judge and to love and SHOW love to all.
Jesus took the long list of laws of the Jews and summed it up simply and eloquently. The laws from the OT to the NT changed as the whole basis for salvation changed. Christianity, from this change, came into existence.

Now, as a disclaimer I must say, many people who are Christians judge and say things like "F*gs are going to hell". This is in violation of those individuals foundational beliefs. Many people judge all Christians with these people, but the truth is they are not following the law they say they are trying to uphold.

i will be back for more, but I'z tired

edit: GRAMMERS IS SUCK and CTHULHU is sweet.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by DINSTAAR]

reply to post by P-a-r-a-d-o-X-2


paradox, sorry I don't use all of the hyphens, I would think, this is my critical thinking hat speaking, if you were so enlightened, you wuld know the difference between the words 'there' and 'their' and the contraction 'they're'.

Just an observation.......

Hint...homonyms are great, but if you want to impress people with your knowledge maybe you should know the difference.

Since it's an online forum, and we make allowances for spelling errors and such, I will apologize in advance...BUT! IF someone professes to KNOW the truth, that one should at least be able, or have his/her god be able, to compose a post that comports with standard English usage.

We all can make typos, myself included. I, though, tend to read what I post, and edit mistakes if I see them.

Adding...I do this to clarify my post, and to (hopefully) not subject readers to bad spelling and punctuation.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

reply to post by Elisha4Yah


I could not agree with you more. To every Christian posting I would
like to remind you of something very important. You cannot win someone
to Christ. Nor can you make someone belive the way you do. The only thing we are called by Christ to do is witness. Christ calls people to Himself
we can only hope to be the vessel He uses. None of us should be on the defense about our beliefs. We need to let our actions as well as our words
be our greatest testimony for why we believe.

We also need to remember not to get so complicated when trying to explain our position. To continue to quote scripture without explaining
how that would apply to someones life now, is usually lost on most people.
It also seems so very condesending.

Well, the people that made the video take verses out of context.
You read verses here and there, never did you read the whole Bible and ask God for wisdom.

1.
First, most Americans are not true Christians. They say they believe in the 10 commandments, yet they dont observe the Sabbath. Jesus prophesied about this, its nothing to be startled about.

2. all of your verses in the First Testament are out of context:
I wont list each verse, but it is all of them.
God was among the Israelites during that time, guiding them and speaking to them. He personally gave the Israelites the land they inhabited.
"..within any of thy gates which the LORD thy God giveth thee.."
"..in any of the cities which the LORD, your God, gives you to dwell in.."
All those verses pertain to the Israelites in the land God gave them to dwell in.
God has not given us anything yet. Has God ever appeared to you and told you he is giving you the land you are standing on? We are living in a heathen land.
When Jesus sets up his kingdom, you better believe all those rules will apply.

About the slave ownership, thats out of context again. Read the whole verse. Israelites can buy slaves from the heathen/pagan devil worshipping lands, it might do those people some good anyway.

isaiah 13 is talking about babylonians, devil worshippers, not just any people. Again taken out of context.

hosea 13:16 Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: thats a prophecy, yes anyone rebelling against God will perish.

Jesus advices followers to cut off limbs: taken out of context again.
If you read the whole book, you will see Jesus teaches in parables, he talks about this. Read it for yourself, pray and you will receive understanding. Obviously you are not doing that, your are judging Jesus as being repulsive when you dont even read the whole Book and give an effort to understand. You better be careful!!

Women are to have no authority in the Church. This is more precautionary. A Womens sexuality is very powerful. She can seduce man very easy. I am female by the way. I stopped going to church, but when I went, there were women with makeup, tight dresses, high heel shoes, perfume, like their going out on the town. That does not belong in a real Christian church.


Well thats it, you obviously know nothing about the Bible, and just pick verses here and there to suit your own agenda. Be careful!!!!

reply to post by woodwytch


You said it. Hardcore Christians.
Problem is that there is no one bible.
The bible exists as fragments written on material that degrades and is eventualy destroyed. The scribes, and later, the monks made hand copies to preserve the legacy.
Even the old testament, itself is a compilation put together from fragments that survived the destuction of Israel and Judea by the Asyrians and then the Babalonians. There are at least twenty different books that are refered to in the old testament as sources.
The fire and brimstone kind of preaching comes from earlier translations of the New Testament that have had doctrins inserted that woud direct the reader to go along with dark ages kind of thinking.
The best of the newest translations have enough scientific understanding of the old texts to be able to remove a lot of what does not belong in it.
The old testament came close to being thrown out, altogether by the Church. It was only preserved to add a little athenticity of the claim to legitamicy of Christ being the messiah.
The church really has almost nothing to do with the old testament or Judiasm. Actually early on the Church passed laws to make it heresy to follow any Jewish traditions.
The early Church Fathers had almost no knowledge of the old testament and could not tell you what Hebrew was.
The Church became the official religion of the Empire and the first bishops were beurocrats from the Pagan temples and mostly were not Christians at all.
So the "Church" is a conglomeration of Roman paganism and Christianity.
It was not untill the time of the Renaissance that christianity had any knowledge about the Old Testament.
Once it became known and printing was invented, it was latched onto by the reformation churches and you ended up with the extreemist theologies that were driven to the New World. We have been suffering from a lot of bad theoogy in America, but hopefuly all intelegent christians can get past all the negativety taught in some churches and get back to something closer to what Jesus had in mind.

[edit on 7-3-2008 by jmdewey60]

[edit on 7-3-2008 by jmdewey60]

This one is for both sides of the argument to ponder...
Matthew15:7)You hypocrites! Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you: 8)"These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me.9)They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men"10)Jesus called the crowd to him and said, Listen and understand.11)What goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean', but what come out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean'.

Could this be stating, "He who speaks does not know, he who knows does not speak."

think about it, the idea of beauty allows ugliness to exist, as the idea of good gives way to the idea of evil, can you see the illusion in both?

~~Interesting. And you attribute this to God in what way?

Because he made himself real to me in a personal way, as God has always done with each of us, in his own way. Because he knows each of us uniqueally. He knows you better than you know yourself, or he can't call himself God of the Universe.....right? I mean think about it....God has many titles, some which are pretty hefty.. like Omniscience, Omnipresent...

~~I would be happy that the other person finally showed up, and awfully pissed for having spent 20 years of my life in prison.

My life was prisoner of someone for 18 years I thought would make my life better for me, however, it was the WORST nightmare lived out in real life. Nothing short of a horror film; from about the age of 4. But, God set me free, right at the time I needed it.

but...we all have things in our lives don't like to deal with underneath. Things we've done to others, things done to us by others, choices we've made... for the worst,and carrying those 'monkeys' on our backs. Unwilling to share for fear of ridicule.

Right?

Because to answer that as a No... would only be deceiving/lying to yourself; as you put on another mask, turn the knob and walk out the door to our comfort zone. we all have perfect lives......................

But the intresting thing about God is..........he's ALWAYS on time and NEVER will go against your will.

If we can't believe him enough to ask HIM to get us out of the situation we get ourselves into... he's patient. But, Just like the Heavenly Father he is, will not always wait for us to ask either. He'll make the offer you just can't refuse. ) but, I've seen a few that did. *cry*

Originally posted by BlackOps719

If you'd like my full testimony, I'll gladly type it out for you, just beware, it will be long to help you better understand, I didn't have a choice. Spend 20 years in a prison ..and then have someone come to you and take your place in prison and set you free...how would you feel?

Interesting. And you attribute this to God in what way?


And to answer your question, how would I feel if I spent 20 years in prison, only to have someone come and take my place?

I would be happy that the other person finally showed up, and awfully pissed for having spent 20 years of my life in prison.

Please feel free to elaborate on your story, it sounds like a real doozie.

reply to post by microsoft123


Golly, you had my attention, until the last paragraph. Oh, my!

Do you actually believe what you wrote, in your post? As it pertains to 'tight' dressses and high heels?!?

Hey, here's an idea...men in tight pants. Happens a lot, haven't you noticed?

Sometimes the men's pants can be so tight, you may be able to see details. OK, won't go further here, but I hope you see my point. Sexuality can work both ways.

Why do Mainstream Religions think that only women have all of the sexual energy, hmmm? As a gay man, I can tell you it is not an exclusive domain of the woman, this is a LIE that has been perpetrated by the Patriarchy for centuries, even as they have had to NEED the women, for procreation.

The males, from our earliest ancestry, tended to go out and hunt, and the females, since they birthed the young, tended to stay and nurture. It is eveident in other species' behaviours, we just have the ability to think about it and discuss it.

reply to post by weedwhacker


The imagine of a tightly fitted pair of hot pink pants to a mans commando crotch was alittle too much for me tonight. I think I'll be done for the day now. Thanks, I'm going to go snort some peroxide.

reply to post by weedwhacker


So you, being a gay man, have most likely sentenced yourself to a life in hell no? According to the scripture presented on the video, you should by all points and reason be stoned to death.

Forgive me, but I do not see how a person can openly adhere to a belief system that in all senses of the word condemns that person to death. And please, for the sake of reason, do not tell me that the scripture in question is misunderstood or not taken in it's proper context, because the verbage could not be any clearer. Must be tough being a gay male Christian.