Christians...how do you justify all of this?

First of all, I am not a Christian nor am I anti-Christian in any way. For all intents and purposes I am someone who is on the fence when it comes to religion.



Proving the bible is repulsive


I would like for those who are identified as followers of the bible and Christianity to watch this video linked above, and explain how such scripture and such barbaric language can be written off or ignored when it comes from the bible.

Supposedly the bible is God's word, literally translated and "perfect" as God's will is supposed to be. IMO if the bible is God's word, then ALL of his word must be adhered to and taken at face value, anything less would be hippocritical to say the least. One cannot pick and choose which scriptures should be taken literally and which ones should be ignored, you must take the good with the bad. To be a real Christian there could be no in between.

That being said, how does a person justify being a Christian when it clearly states that murder and stoning is a daily fanfare? How can your religion, which is supposedly the "religion of peace". be so sinister and murderous. I see claim after claim against a religion like Islam by Christians, saying that it is primitive and violent and calls for the death of non believers. But in fact, according to your own scripture, the bible does the same and THEN some.

Im not trying to flame anyone here, but how as a Christian do you explain all of this? I realize it is convenient and easy to follow the passages that YOU want to follow and simply ignore the rest, and I do not believe these passages have been taken out of context. It is what it is. Debunk this video if you can but all of this stuff is in the bible. I would love to hear a few opinions from some of the resident bible thumpers, justify this if you can.

reply to post by BlackOps719

Hi BlackOps719,

And this could be a vey interesting thread. I have to say, I shall be watching with interest for the explanations you receive.
I'm going to flag and star this ... not because I want to see people getting high-rate about their faith, but because I genuinly want to hear the responses to get a deeper insight on the points posed.

An eager observer ... Woody

their god would tell the israelites to wipe out entire nations. he would tell them to kill everyone, even the women and children. I don't see how you can justify that in any way. The people don't have a choice what country they were born into, much less what god their king is going to make them serve.

When king Saul kept some of the livestock and gold and spared some of the people from one of the nations god ridiculed him.

that doen't really seem like like a loving peaceful god to me

good post

My _javascript is disabled or I don't have the latest version of adobe flash and I can't see the video, at ALL.
Could you fill me in on the finer points, please?

I know as far as the wars went, Some of the more evil nations were NOT spared, not only because of their sin against God, but, because of their 'leaven' of evil religion, which would plague the nation of Israel until now.

It seemed the Hebrews ALWAYS seemed to turn to Molech, Baal or the "queen' of heaven, turning their back on the precepts of God.

Thank you in advance.

Great.
Now, just change it from Christianity to Islam.
Talk about how the Koran is false and Mohamed is an idiot.
Post it on youtube and along with it, post your name, address and phone number.
Talk about how stupid it is to obseve Friday, and how it is rediculous to pray towards Mecca, five times a day.
Do that, and I will tell you what I think about this video.
Go ahead and make a post on this forum, anouncing that you put up a video saying that Islam is detestable, so I can watch it.
BTW get a good life insurance policy.

Unfortunately this particular thread is not about Islam, it is about Christianity. Feel free to post whatever you wish about Islam. As I stated in the original post, these facts from your bible put the peaceful religion of Christianity on par with Islam and there is no denying it.


Instead of deflecting and dancing around the questions and topics at hand, why not give an explanation about why it is that your "religion of peace" is clearly so blood thirsty and barbaric? Islam has been dragged through the mud 1,000 times, that is old news. Let's see what happens when Christians get a taste of their own medicine and are made to answer to the wordings and parables of their own God

[edit on 3/6/08 by BlackOps719]

reply to post by theendisnear69


Let us suppose there is a history of this region that we do not, as yet, know about.
Let's say that there was a happy inter-nation relationship in the time that Abraham left Ur and went to Salem.
His decendents move off to Egypt, and in the mean time, Melchezideck, and all the followers of the true God and all the relitives of Abraham are horribly murdered by invading tribes.
The barbarian hord is somehow held back by the Egyptian army, at its border.
The last suvivers of the true God religion are brought back from Egypt to exact vengence on the murderers of God's High Priest, who had killed His followers and defiled the Holy Places that Abraham had built temples.
The actual real God is angry against the setting up of false gods in his temples.
The evel doers must pay with their lives and have the land peopled with His obedient sevents.
If you were god, what would you do? Probubly the same thing.

With the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ we came into a new covenant (agreement) with God. He paid our price for sin and allowed us to find the father. The price paid can be accepted by anyone that accepts Jesus as their Lord and savior, there is no time limit for the offering. In other words everyone has the term of their life to accept Jesus and the salvation offered. If a sinner was put to death by man for whatever reason under this new covenant, that man would be taking away the sinners right to find salvation (Jesus) and forgiveness during the term of their natural god given life.

So we need to read the Old Testament with an understanding of the New.

reply to post by jmdewey60


So if I were god your saying that this is what I would do.

I would kill everyone. I would kill all the children but only the boys because i'm gonna keep the girls for all the men to have their way with them. But see i'm not done yet i'm going to round up all the pregnant women and cut them open.

hahaha wow i love god he is so delightfully evil. he's a genius actually. He knows exactly how to keep the people in line. A flood here a pestilence there.

reply to post by BlackOps719


BlackOps, I am sure you will understand and excuse me if I tell you that I haven't watched the video nor have I any intention of doing so (not because of you or anyone in particular).

But whatever it is on that video that disturbed you, I am sure it disturbed you with good reason. And if it entails or implies ANY kind of violence, my reply to your original question is:

There is no justification.

Period.


But does that mean that Christ's precepts - which, unlike the Old Testament, are by definition the very basis of the Christian faith (they are very few, very simple and very well known, so I am not going to patronise you by enumerating them here) - are wrong?

And that I am wrong for living my life as closely in accordance with those precepts as humanly possible?

No, I didn't think so.




[edit on 6-3-2008 by Vanitas]

reply to post by theendisnear69


Thank God he is Holy.
The various nations from the Great flood knew what it took to stay on track with God, (just like Noah), I mean, God is NOT a taskmaster, It's so easy to please God, but, willfully ignorant people always pull downward, away from God and his blessings....

Just ask Jesus to forgive and give your heart to him and he will make life wonderful!

Originally posted by kinglizard
With the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ we came into a new covenant (agreement) with God. He paid our price for sin and allowed us to find the father. The price paid can be accepted by anyone that accepts Jesus as their Lord and savior, there is no time limit for the offering. In other words everyone has the term of their life to accept Jesus and the salvation offered. If a sinner was put to death by man for whatever reason under this new covenant, that man would be taking away the sinners right to find salvation (Jesus) and forgiveness during the term of their natural god given life.

So we need to read the Old Testament with an understanding of the New.

That's the most ridiculous thing I ever heard of. How could Jesus pay my "debt" before I'm even born? And how does one acquire a debt before birth? Why would I be born any differently than Jesus?
And what is it I need saving from anyway? Eternal damnation if I don't join the Jesus club? What kind of a "God" would condemn his children to eternal damnation without at least explaining why?
Christianity is the biggest conspiracy in the world. A small group of self appointed men control millions of people, and their money, by simply saying that unless you join the club you will burn in hell for all eternity. There is absolutely no proof of any of their claims, yet people buy their scam out of fear and confusion.
God is pure love and yet will condemn his children to burn in hell??? I don't think so. Jesus was only crucified once, but "Christianity" has crucified the teachings of Jesus for thousands of years.

reply to post by jmdewey60

Hi there,
Please fogive my ignorance, but are you saying that you agree that men / women / children should be killed ... homosexuals should be killed ... pregnant women should be cut open and that slavery is acceptable etc. etc. etc. because it says so in the bible ... the word of God (from the biblical perspective) is perfect and lasts 'forever ?

I have a pretty good general knowledge of the bible but I'm certainly no expert, so can you please confirm/deny if the passages quoted on the video are real or fake. If they are real (as the video asks), how can itbe justified ? If it's fake then that video should be removed and a lawsuit handed to it's maker.

This is quite worrying when you consider how many Christians claim that the bible should be taken literally ... am I just being naive ?

Woody.

reply to post by Shedman



You have a lot of questions Shedman.

If my response is ridiculous to you then the points in the OP are also ridiculous to you because they also come from Christian teachings making your comments irrelevant to this conversation. I'm not asking you to believe or accept anything, I'm simply addressing the topic from a Christian standpoint as the thread author requested.

reply to post by Clearskies


very typical of a christian to just change the subject and tell me to get saved.

i have spent everyday in a christian church for the last 10 years (my parents put me in a christian school, what could i do) and believe me i did give my life to christ when i was 11 at vacation bible school. But since then i have sat back and watched christianity, watched the people at the numerous churches i attended, and I realized that they were all devoting their lives to something based on FAITH. Something that cannot be seen or heard. And they got it all from a really old book, written by man not god, because if god is real he would not have made it so complicated and with so many loopholes and injustifications.'

So please go ahead and keep believing the bible, just don't tell me to give my life to jesus because i tried that. I have read the bible and studied it while I was a christian so I know alot about it.

reply to post by theendisnear69


Once you are god for a few thousand years, your tactics may become more refined. I would not expect you to be perfect, right away.
You also have to realize that these books were not written as the events happened. None of the orders given out by God were actually caried out as specified.

First off, God him self flooded the whole world in judgment?

Did anyone tell you why at school? Do you still not know?

First off God wiped out all living things including Animals off the face of the planet and saved Noah and his family and the Animals with a good gene variety.

Why would a loving God kill, destroy all living things?

Come on is that not barbaric?

Okay here is the missing issues that you have not read or they won't tell you, issues that Islam deny ever happened let alone the science world but at least it had a good reason.

The explantion is that, as Genesis 6 explains- The Son's of God had Children with the daughters of men. This created a hybrid race of Angel men Giants. Not only was the gene pool polluted of humans, so were the animals, maybe dinosaurs for all we know were hybrid experiments from the Angels, but what happenned polluted the human gene pool.
Is that not a good excuse? Is that not better than killing people for being in the wrong place and not believing.

Isreal and Jesus had a destiny- Jesus was known to be born and had to be born as redeemer, but many people and Angels and hybrids got in the way. Greek and Egyptian and Babylonian history all depict Giants, because of this other unknown history.

This was not the end as this occured many times when Angel/man hybrids were set out to destroy the world and the coming of the saviour. This is all in the Bible and it's history.
The Isrealites had to decontaminate, not only was that the issue but the issue to bring the line of Adam, his bloodline to be carried into a future where Jesus would be born.

This completion made it possible for Jesus to become redeemer, so even if all those wars and killings happenned, it was because this future we are now in has produced over 6 Billion lives so far plus all the rest since 2,000AD in which Christ can bring in and save people. If it had not occured we would not be here now.

If you see know of the conspiracies on this website forums you can see how it's all happenning again, as Jesus predicted that as the time of Noah so shall his next arrival be. Look at the UFO activity and all this reptillian bloodline and illuminati talk is saying and the genetic modified world right now.
You think that's right? You let it happen again and we will be doomed, and that is their plan, to wipe man off mankind off the planet so the big serpent Satan wins the day. He is still at it with wiping the Jews out, Hitler tried it Ancient Islam tried the Romans were thinking about it let alone the rest. This will happen again, but Old Testement does not effect the behavour of the New Testement Christian way, because that way was different, those stories were ancient even to Jesus 2000 years ago and to say we agree or disagree does not make sense, at that time if that was what happened then that's the way it did.

No one today is going by Old Testement stories to try and use it as an excuse to kill, It does not work in the same light as Islam which you can because there is no Saviour figure there and all old ancient ways are as one as with the present, and that is not Christianity.


[edit on 6-3-2008 by The time lord]

Originally posted by jmdewey60
reply to post by theendisnear69

 

None of the orders given out by God were actually caried out as specified.

But the bible says if they didn't carry out the orders exactly as said, they would be killed. Look at the israelite priests for example, if they did not have the exactly specified by god clothing on when they went into the temple to worship and pray they would be killed or stoned.

if i were those people and god was telling me this stuff i would have done it exactly how he said

The video is based on the Old Testament. I think its easy for all to see that this older part of the bible is barbaric, and Not so Perfect.

The New Testament is where the religion of love comes into play. Or to say it another way, to correct the imperfect teachings of the Old Testament.

I would guess that at least 80% of Christians don't really know the whole story of the religion they follow.

I wonder how many people in the worlds history have died in the name of Jesus Christ, compared to Satan? What makes a religion evil? Does its history? Or its propaganda determine this.

I have many Christians in my life, and well you just can't talk to these people about the uglier side of there faith, without running the risk of them turning there back to you. So much for not judging or turning the other cheek, yet these same people believe that the law of the land should mirror the laws of there faith, uh Without a discussion about it.

*edit to add*

You can't justify any of this without blind faith.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by LDragonFire]

As for this video, I do not find much honisty in it.
It is based on some false assumptions and innacuracies.
It misrepresents what some of these texts say.
Why is a justice an athority on how many people believe in the ten commandments?
If you pin people down, they will end up not supporting the sabbath.
It is not really a Christian concept. The idea of the sabbath had a new revival when the pilgrems came to America. But what they called the sabbath was not the sabbath of the old testament.
Trying to get some idea that Christianity supports a new type of cruelty, by looking at a parable of Jesus is rediculous. All he is saying is that holding onto material things do you no good in the next life.