The Real Truth: Who's Better Off?

Seeing all the threads and discussions, some very heated some more civil, it dawned on me that a bigger question still has not been broached: Which group is getting more mileage out of this global terror eradication campaign - the terrorists or the governments?
- People of the West, a fair percentage of them, are living in a state of irrational fear - the choice end result for terrorists.
- Governments are implementing policies & new laws that are on the surface, designed to assuage those fears, but control and power have increased for the governments.

Thoughts?

You do have a point.... The terrorists kinda succeeded in their hope: to scare the dickens outta the Western civilizations. We're constantly in a state of fear, and al Qaeda's gettin' their jollies out of it. I think that it's kind of foolishfor Bush and Blair to think they can annialate ALL the terrorists, but that it was a good idea to pay them back for the psychological torment they put those people through.
As for the policies, yeah they do help the governments. It's not much, but they do... But there's no way the Homeland Security is gonna help much...

Will terrorism be destroyed,no.Should we try to stop it,yes.
I do not see to many people worried about attacks.I go about my life the same way I did before 9/11.I think we all know it will happen again.

I'am hopeful that we can keep most of the terrorist's pinned down.Right now we need patience,since this not something that will be fixed overnight.My biggest fear is,the next President might not follow through with war.That would put us right back to were we started from.

that's my fear too Nyeff. We'll get another Clinton/Carter that's soft on terror, tries to diminish the CIA, destroy the military, etc, etc. We need to rebuild our military to fight terror, develop more human intelligence, so on and so forth. BT - I only speak for myself, but probably speak for many - irrational fear? Who here has irrational fears? I want the terrorists to have irrational fear of us. Make it hard for them to act, etc, etc. We'll never get rid of all of them, but it's, imho, a good fight and one we must take on.

Nyeff & Bob
you miss the point of my question; it's not a philisophical one on the pros & cons of if the terror war shoud be. The way things are unfolding globally, which camp do you think has benefited more? Both have.....

I don't think that the terrorists have really benefitted from this at all. First off, they've seriously undermined their cause (if, as stated, it is in most cases the creation of a Palestinian state), and have put that even further down the road as a possibility. Second, they haven't succeeded in destroying our way of life. We still go through each day as we did before, albeit with just a little more caution, but certainly not fear.

Not to mention, it's made hijacking planes for the old reasons (extortion, etc.) a thing of the past. Nowadays, if some yahoo tries to start ANYTHING on a plane, the passengers are going to take him out, and even the terrorists now know this.

And finally, this tragedy helped really unite a lot of Americans, and made us kind of take a step back and realize what's really important. I doubt that they were expecting to see us rallying behind our flag, and holding our heads up high after the attack, let alone ousting the government that shielded them.

Nope, I don't think the terrorists came out of this so hot...(especially those guys in the Afghan tunnels that first got the air sucked out of them shortly before being incinerated)

[Edited on 19-12-2002 by Gazrok]

Terrorists have not benifited from this war.Since the predator attack,they are now prisoners in their caves.They know that at any time they can be killed and never see it coming.They used to be able to tain whenever they wanted,not anymore.They have also taken a financial blow as well.

Despite the devastation of 9/11,things are pretty much same on the global front.We still by,sell and trade.Have our freedoms.And live good(easy)lives.We have not benifeted from the attacks,but we haven't lost much either.

I think you have diffrent reasons behind terrorism; a guerilla warfare brand ( Palestine, Colombia) and you have the kind we faced: the goal is to disrupt what they think is a decadent way of life, the anarchy for anarchy's sake school. I think they are about to receive a million more new recruits, the inactive will switch to active ( Bali bombing) and new areas will start being hot spots ( MicroAsia).
Again, not a question about Americans but the American governments increase in power under the guise of a war time need. I think the powers gained here by the gov. are not only substantial, but shocking in how easy they were granted.

While Osama has benifited by gaining support in the Muslim extreamist world, he, and terrorism in general, have lost face in the rest of the world by killing thousands of innocents. There are some things that just cannot be forgiven. There are too many countries who have banded together to fight them, and who have a vested interest to see the fight succeed. Bin Laden and his cohorts, the Taliban, have not gained at all, as they have lost control of a country they had under their power. They aren't free to go where they please, and are hunted whereever they go. None of the demands that Bin Laden made in hs "Fatwa" have been met, so he hasn't succeeded in gaining anything yet.

Originally posted by Affirmative Reaction
While Osama has benifited by gaining support in the Muslim extreamist world, he, and terrorism in general, have lost face in the rest of the world by killing thousands of innocents. There are some things that just cannot be forgiven.

When did Osma ever have any support or face with the world excluding arab nations? I think both camps have benefited from the attacks. We have momentum to fight them and they have gained even more respect from their arab neighbors.

Osama is look at as a hero and a freedom fighter by most arabs. These attacks have only strengthened his image.

Originally posted by NinjaoftheNight
When did Osma ever have any support or face with the world excluding arab nations? I think both camps have benefited from the attacks. We have momentum to fight them and they have gained even more respect from their arab neighbors.

If you read the post again, I said "Muslim extreamists". The rest of the world includes all other arabs. Contrary to popular belief, there are Arabs who do NOT hold Bin Laden in anything but contempt, as he has besmirched the Muslim religion with his call to Jihad and his "Fatwa", which only certain muslim clerics may issue, not wealthy buldozer operators. I take issue with the "most Arabs" part of the previous post, as no one can speak for "most Arabs". The cowardly acts perpetrated in the last few years do not represent the true muslim faith as practiced in most places, only the extreamist version practiced by the minority of Muslims.

*edit*
AR, quote what is only necessary.
I took out the double quote.

[Edited on 30-5-2004 by Seekerof]

Support for Osama is not as widespread in the Arab world as the media might have you believe. Having lived in the middle east a few years myself (Riyadh, Saudi Arabia to be precise, and yes, I'm an American by birth), I can tell you that the majority of Arabs are just like you and me, they go to work or school, they buy their groceries, they pay their bills...not all of them are in terrorist training camps and chant death to America.

That said, regardless of your cause, or reasons, cheering and rejoicing over the DELIBERATE killing of innocent civilians is just plain wrong, and inhuman. Do I agree with what Isreal has done, and is doing? No, but so far, the methods of the Palestinians have been far worse, especially since it has evolved from genuine wanna-be martyrs, to just plain paid killers (i.e. thousands going to surviving family members of suicide bombers).

I agree with A-R that the Muslim faith should never be misconstrued as having it's face as Osama's brand - I've worked with too many regular guys ( and yes, I would always make sure to eat something really delicious looking in the lunch/break room in front of them during their Ramadan fast just to break their balls! )
I think he's pushed back secualar mevements in many Muslim countries, not so much as anti him, but anti US reaction to what's considered the Crusades part 2 by them. In the Times yesterday they had how a Fast Food Burger joint modeled on Big Boy is packed everyday, how a nock off of Victorias Secret is doing great business...all this in Iran.
The Radical terrorist, if we look at their goals to be disruption and recruitment, are gaining new recruits by the thousands with every military movement we make, regardless of our validity in making the move. We definetly need some positive spin.

Originally posted by NinjaoftheNight
Osama is look at as a hero and a freedom fighter by most arabs. These attacks have only strengthened his image.

These guys are nuts,stupids and blinds.

They see OBL like a hero. A hero who's rich like Cresus but don't care about his followers,don't help his own peoples with his money, but he is ready to send them all to death in the name of a so-called faith.

OBL motto : " I'm rich like Cresus, I'll not give you one penney,I'll not help you, I'll let you starved to death BUT I'll ask you to be ready to death in my name and allah/muhamad names. And if you don't want to do what I order you,I'll condemn you to the death "

OBL recruitment ad's :

1) " You are poor, blind and stupid ? So,join us and you will die like a martyr "

2) " You are rich, you want to be a leader and a hero, but you don't want to give your live. Join us.Be one of my lieutnant, you'll not regret it. Plenty of peoples will be happy to follow our crazy orders "

my test

test2

the Terrorists. How much more predicable could the United States have been?

Well, I take that back, after the U.S.S. Cole, what did we do? Say "Bad dog, no bisquit?"

[Edited on 04-08-2004 by ladyspiritguide]

I've never understood what happened with the Cole. As I understand it, that boat is treated like U.S. soil. So an attack on the Cole is like an attack on the U.S. isn't it? and if that is true than why didn't we do anything about it? Did we even try to catch the people who did this?
the whole thing just seems a little fishy to me... a little boat laden with bombs scoots up next to Her and blows a huge hole in Her side? the repairs done to the Cole replaced 550 tons of steel armor.
That had to be some bomb...

But back on subject... I think that the terrotists have been hurt more than they have gained. In general, the U.S. is back to normal, for better or worse, and now we are hot on their tails to boot. I'm sure it is much harder for Al Quada to operate now than it was pre 9/11. But I wouldn't discount another terror attack just yet.