"The End of America" (Naomi Wolf) Video

Originally posted by tankthinker
there are certain people who will be safe, but seriously i can wait for someone to take over america be it bush or obama, just start the war already

What in God's name are you talking about?

Originally posted by Rockpuck
reply to post by Amaterasu

 

As a studier of history, her historic comparison was anything short of embarrassing to be honest..

Wow. I study history as well, and know that there are tactics used to topple democracies into fascist states (as she pointed out, was done by Moussalini (sp?) and Hitler). Not the exact same things are happening here under the Bush admin, but surely comparable things are.

Anyone can relate the US to anything they want.. to Nazi's and other villains and "evil" groups of people who tried to take over the world and cause as much harm as possible..

I disagree. If we were to compare the US to Nazi Germany 20 years ago, though there were the tiny beginnings even then, mostly, it would have been laughable. Today, with the War on Drugs having been used to get us to accept things like property being seized without due process, our doors being burst open by official thugs, and the War on Terror being used to justify enemy combatants, the removal of habeas corpus, spying on all of us, and so on, the comparisons between the US and Nazi Germany are stark.

In reality, it is as I said in my post, the one you did not quote from -- nations follow a path that is destined to them, however, no two nations will ever be the same .. no two governments.. and because the incidents, the choices, the situations are all going to be different, no two can be compared.

Again, I disagree. Although not the "same" - as in "identical" - we can point to some countries and say, they are democratic though their systems do differ from one another. Other countries we can say are dictatorships, even though the policies and practices from one to the next differ. And the US now is a fascist state with an thin veil of democracy in place for the placation of the masses. No, we are not a Hitleresque state - yet - but the moves the admin has made, and what we see around us today is more that than the free state(s) that our Founding Individuals were trying to create.

That is.. America cannot be compared to any past nation based on policies..

That depends on the policy and what of that policy one is comparing. No, Blackwater is not the SS. It differs in some ways. But the basic function of Blackwater matches closely with the SS. So there is a fair comparison. And as time goes on, it is clear that Blackwater (and likely other private forces) will easily take over the SS role completely.

If you are getting what I mean?

I get what you are trying to say, but respectfully disagree on all counts.

And so you know, because apparently not praising this woman for.. ahem .. "being so brave" (how is it brave to speak in a nation of free speech? .. If you think her speech was exciting you lead dull lives) I am automatically a Republican?

LOL! I did not say you were republican. I asked if you voted for Bush. I know some very misguided Dems who voted for Bush. It just seemed that you had something you were defending, and the only reason I could see for feeling the need for defending the administration was that one voted for it. [shrug]

I am a Libertarian.

Awesome. I am closer to Libertarian than any other political divide.

Oddly she said she would vote for a Libertarian before Hilary or Obama.. not new .. I have heard many Liberals say this.. and it is ironic to no end because you see a Libertarian is an ultra Conservative.

Well... I disagree there, too. From what I can see, there are a great number of things Libertarians are very conservative on (e.g., upholding the constitution and, especially, the Bill of Rights). But there are a great deal of things they are very liberal on (e.g., prohibition should be eliminated).

Now I would think that you, as a Libertarian, should be one who can see the distance we have been dragged by this administration (and, through the War on Drugs, previous administrations) from our beloved Constitution and our most exalted Bill of Rights. I would think you could see the direction in which we have been dragged. And it all adds up to fascism. A cross between The Prince, Mein Kamph (sp?), and Orwell's 1984.

No, it's not Hitler's fascism. It's a hybrid of many fascist setups. but it is fascism that we are headed for, nonetheless.

[edit on 3/7/2008 by Amaterasu]

Originally posted by themillersdaughter


Are the JAG lawyers also partisan when they refuse to participate? What party do the decorated war veterans on the terrorist watch list belong to? What about his 15 year old daughter?

If she is such a partisan why did she mention that Clinton and Obama were the LAST to respond to the Amercian Freedom Campaign? Her disgust was apparent..if she were such a partisan wouldn't she have glossed over that fact?

It's hard to deny the facts...but I'm sure people will. Especially PARTISAN Republicans.

Thanks for sharing this Realtruth.

I am glad people are enjoying this person's observations. I think she makes some very valid points and comparisons.

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Wolf makes her steps for fascism just vague enough they could applied to just about any government. Wolf is a partisan; she only points to these things as they apply to an administration she doesn't like. She does not give examples of it happening on the other side, though certainly they do. Wonder why that is...?

You are telling me you can't find examples happening today of what Naomi is explaining ?

1.Invoke a terrifying internal and external enemy

Islam, Osama, Terrorism.

2. Create a gulag

Guantánamo Bay and more.

3. Develop a thug caste

Blackwater, which operates outside the law and recently received a big contract to operate inside US boarders.

4. Set up an internal surveillance system

National ID card. Biometric scans. RFID etc. Not very hard to recognize also.

5. Harass citizens' groups

The way police handles anti war protesters says enough to me.

6. Engage in arbitrary detention and release

That's exactly what they are doing with anti war protesters.

7. Target key individuals

Don't give certain politicians air time they deserve.
Fire a CIA agent who says waterboarding is torture.
Fire people that are critical and are in goverment positions. Happens all the time.

8. Control the press
I don't think you need any explanation with this one

9. Dissent equals treason
HR 1955 is a pretty good example don't you think?

10.Suspend the rule of law

What is Bush doing lately?

So i really don't understand why you can't see examples of fascism in what Naomi is saying.

reply to post by Realtruth


I watched the video. I thought it was believable until the scenario where Americans depose Bush ,put him jail and live happily ever after. Who the devil would replace Bush? Both parties have been moving in this direction. I have a bad feeling that academics will have no problem with leftists doing exactly as Bush has done and worse.

Originally posted by abovetech
You are telling me you can't find examples happening today of what Naomi is explaining ?

Are you telling me you don't know the meaning of the term "vague enough to be applied to any government?"

How I missed this important thread I have no idea. Op I accidentally started another new thread a few minutes ago not knowing this was already up and going. Forgive me.

I will have to take a few minutes, make a cup of coffee and read what other members think of this gal, she is one of the best speakers I have found on the truth of where we are as a dying Democracy world wide.

This is a fantastic video she did not sure if it made it to this thread, I looked real quick but did not see it...




[edit on 6-11-2008 by antar]

I'm reading that book right now! It's really good you should all read it. It's packed with information, but it makes you really angry. it actually inspired my avatar!
star and flag btw

[edit on 6-11-2008 by Shocka]

Originally posted by SaviorComplex
Wolf makes her steps for fascism just vague enough they could applied to just about any government. Wolf is a partisan; she only points to these things as they apply to an administration she doesn't like. She does not give examples of it happening on the other side, though certainly they do. Wonder why that is...?

you need to read the actual book she goes into great detail

I got here by antar's thread but I have a question. You see this book was written in 07 and Bush is for all intents out of office, for we now have a President elect.

So I guess the new woolie booger is Obama? After all he said he want's a national civilian force funded as well as the military.

Roper

Roper here is another incredible link to a video interview she did last month, I am enjoying it thoroughly and planning to follow all of her links to the various plans which are in affect since last year when Naomi was talking about a coup.
Well it has' happened, it is apparent all of the instances she gave in last years video have come to pass. There are links she gives that are organizing ways to stop the shock and apathy so many have been thrown into from the astronomical amounts of confusion (part of the plan), and actually putting a plan into action...

Check back later, good to see people care. This btw is NOT an American issue, it is global, any where there is Democracy.

Interesting I cannot get the video link to work, go to Utube video and in the search engine type in Naomi Wolf, then go to Give me Liberty added one month ago.

I do not know if this has anything to do with what she has to say and or represents but Utube keeps sending me to Obama videos after I try to put the link here on this forum???? It also says it is a malformed video, but works fine when you are on their site. How long before the Facist state completely takes away freethinking and freedom speeches from Utube? Will we see sites like this one go down more and more in the near future in an attempt to silence us?



[edit on 6-11-2008 by antar]

reply to post by Roper


In the near future we will see only civilian based civil service and Military jobs, they will make it the only way to get an education and or have debt forgiveness when you enlist with them...

Originally posted by antar
reply to post by Roper

 

In the near future we will see only civilian based civil service and Military jobs, they will make it the only way to get an education and or have debt forgiveness when you enlist with them...

I watch the your second video.

To my way of thinking, this will come from the Democrats. What Wolf is saying is her videos applies to Obama as well. Maybe more so simply because of his past positions on firearms.

Don't get me wrong, the hair on my neck stood up when I first heard Bush talk about forming the "Office of Homeland security" Later I felt sure he wasn't going to use it against the average citizen but I was fearful of what someone like Clinton or Obama would do.

Again, we now have a" President Elect", there is no way Bush will try to hold power. That man wants a long vacation.

Wolf needs to take a very hard look at Barrack Hussein Obama a man she helped elect. I'll bet money she won't.

Roper

Naomi Wolf's movie is great and compelling and is a must see!!!!! The movie is already out on DVD and on itunes. Check it out, you dont want to miss this movie!!!!!

Why does it matter why she says these things? Does it make the facts different? Who delivers the message isn't the issue here, it's the message itself and in my opinion she delivers it perfectly. I dont care what motivation she has. Dont kill the messanger