Bravery would be saying this about the party you belong to, or about a president you once supported. Bravery would be saying this when it isn't en vogue to say it. Bravery would be saying this in a country where it had consequences; if she said it in Venezuela, Iran, or Russia, that could be considered bravery.

George Carlin said: When fascism comes to America, it will not be in brown and black shirts. It will not be with jack-boots. It will be Nike sneakers and Smiley shirts...Germany lost the Second World War. Fascism won it. Believe me, my friend.

It will come in a form that is appealing. It will come in ways that will convince Americans to give up their freedoms. The rights we have cherished for 232 years will be thrown out in favor of "new rights." What is a little thing like Freedom of Speech, the right to vote for your leaders, freedom of the press, etc, when you are being offered a free college education, free health-care, guaranteed jobs, housing, etc. The more the government gives us, the more control they will demand over our lives; and we will agree to it.

And when that day comes, Naomi Wolf will be among those applauding it's arrival. Often Ben Franklin's old saw about freedom vs. security is trotted out as a criticism of current events in this country. It is time we examine all the implications of that saying.

well your opinion may be some kind of semantic argument that she does not reach the *level * of braveness (which you hold in your mind as dear) . Of course like she said in her speech , when she reads of the first reporters being detained for "free speech" , then she will stop talking. This does not make her unbrave, it makes her intelligent, which is why i think you chose a poor choice of words saying "she is not brave".

She has a level of courage and should be classified as brave IMO nontheless. More importantly than petty semantics are the words she echoes threaten to break a bubble of blissful ignorance.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by cpdaman]

i am so glad to have watched this video.....and now terrified for our future.

#2 on naomi's list: "i challenge you to find any government in history that has used secret prison systems for torture that has not in time turned those methods against its own people."

amen, sister.

Originally posted by tgidkp
i am so glad to have watched this video.....and now terrified for our future.

#2 on naomi's list: "i challenge you to find any government in history that has used secret prison systems for torture that has not in time turned those methods against its own people."

amen, sister.

I think that is what sent the biggest chill up my spine too. I don't think you should be afraid because awareness is what will save this nation and the the rest of the world.

This mess can still be averted.

Wolf makes her steps for fascism just vague enough they could applied to just about any government. Wolf is a partisan; she only points to these things as they apply to an administration she doesn't like. She does not give examples of it happening on the other side, though certainly they do. Wonder why that is...?

Originally posted by tgidkp
i am so glad to have watched this video.....and now terrified for our future.

#2 on naomi's list: "i challenge you to find any government in history that has used secret prison systems for torture that has not in time turned those methods against its own people."

amen, sister.

While I agree with her actual outcome in her thesis.. I however do not agree with how she comes to her conclusions.. that is, it is entirely 110% policially motivated and biased..

Not saying what her OUTCOME is wrong just that it could come from a better source..

The fact of the matter is, all governments who have worldly powers will eventually expand and implode - a stretching that in theory, will stretch to the point where no more pulling can be withstood it will start to push towards its own center, eventually devouring its internal self to sustain its slowing influence on its outerboundaries ..

Essentially a Roman Syndrom if you will.

All Super Powers come in with a bang, unexpected and unprecidented, however, no Super Power has ever held its fullest height of power for more then 200 years.. in fact, to last that long truely is a marvel at the nations ability to withstand the pressures that become associated with such power.

America has been a Super Power imo, since the Civil War, of course, not showing full military force until the Second World War. During the Civil War however, the full effects of Federalism came into effect, but not only that, it demonstrated to the world that the fastest, strongest and most productive economy in the world is in fact America. We produced war on a level never seen by man.. the Civil War essentially was a red flag to Europe - Invasion will never be an option for America - ..

Since then we have only grown .. now we are at the final moments when we must decide, as a people, a broken people at that, who will we be, what will we become, and how will we transform - or will we - we may just go the way as every other nation and decimate ourselves through self canabalism ..

The reason we are at this point now and not a few decades ago is quite simple - we ran out of enemies..

There is no one left that we could not destroy in a matter of weeks.. Russia, China, they are weak. We could pretend they are a threat all we want, but the truth of the matter is, ecnomically they could never produce war to begin with - so we began imperial expansions through military and economic means on resource centers - the Middle East - and focus much of our power on preventing other nations from getting those resources - Middle East, Tiwain, Artic, Gulf of Mexico, military and intel influence in Vannesualla (sp) and even into the Baltic regions with influence to distort Russian influence -- Kosovo anyone? -- All for resource means to continue military expansion across the globe.

So yes... eventually it will come back to us, and we will destroy our selves .. be it through cultural destruction in a desperate attempt to bring in more production to keep the economy alive.. or through complete civil take over through tolitarian means...

Which is not impossible at all.. rather easy actually.. and most world powers go through this transition before reaching the highest peak of political/economic/military power then begining the final declines of the empire...

However.. one must ask themselves... is this a bad thing?

Think about it.

We will end as a nation do to the forces and stresses against our nation being a world power anyways --- once your on top, down is the only way you can go. With no enemies, expanding and conquering is out of the question .. ficticious enemies will only get us so far.. so we will die.. as a nation.

Unless we move into a truely imperial empire type system of government we will not live to see another 200 years of super power status..

And no, America cannot exist as a second class nation.. no one can ever be above us with out a massive deadly war that in its self will most likely bring about a transition of government.

Sometimes for survival, the citizens must give all and put faith in their leaders.. (not meaning Bush lol.. good lord we wouldn't last another 5 years..)

However, back to the subject and what I quoted - I challenge you to name a country that has existed and has NOT USED secret prisons for torture. Not to mention America has used such prisons since its founding.

Just my thoughts. Sorry for spelling errors il fix em later.

Double post my bad.

[edit on 3/6/2008 by Rockpuck]

Very well done but hardly new information. Try walking into a coffee shop around any college campus around America, and you hear the same thing. The biggest problem is average American who voted for bush may know it deep down but they will not admit how they were played, so nothing gets done.

in tell the public in general can and does admit this we are stuck.

This has nothing really to do with a partisan issue or side, because they both are being funded by the same cartels.

Don't buy into choosing a side.

Everyone needs to remember the quote:

"Divide and Conquer" (Divide et impera) Latin for Divide and Rule.

I think ATS should invite Naomi on board and give her her own area.

I wonder if this would be possible?

I know that she would draw quite a bit of attention to ATS and not to mention debates.

Right.... I agree.. Partisan divides are bad? .. However.. the reason I don't like the woman, is not her outcome, but her drive.. its entirely partisan and completely biased and therefore ... is exactly as you say -- dividing.

Not to mention all of her points are politically motivated - she does not have American safety as an agenda, nor care for this nation but her own political ideologies.

Are the JAG lawyers also partisan when they refuse to participate? What party do the decorated war veterans on the terrorist watch list belong to? What about his 15 year old daughter?

If she is such a partisan why did she mention that Clinton and Obama were the LAST to respond to the Amercian Freedom Campaign? Her disgust was apparent..if she were such a partisan wouldn't she have glossed over that fact?

It's hard to deny the facts...but I'm sure people will. Especially PARTISAN Republicans.

Thanks for sharing this Realtruth.

Originally posted by themillersdaughter
Her disgust was apparent..if she were such a partisan wouldn't she have glossed over that fact?

Really now?

Then why did she only focus on the Young Republicans, for instance, for supposedly harassing voters in 2000? Why not talk about Union members who did the same thing? Why not talk about a Democrat campaign worker who slashed tires used to get the elderly to polling station during the 2004 election? Do these not represent a "thug class," or are they only that if they are Republicans?

....DUH !....could it be because it IS the same faction of people responsible for nazi germany ? here , let me answer that.....YES.
after their best laid plans went awry , because of the might of america's military , the faction that led the nazi movement , jumped the sinking ship and swam over here to the shores of america , its military , and all its awesome tools and toys of power , became their new object of all their sick and twisted desires.......same families ,new day. they are planning to abandon another ship , just as soon as they are finished sinking it . they are siphoning any and all money out of the u.s.a. and into their banks. they are stealing whatever warheads and dangerous toys they can move. halliburton moving to dubai , suggest that the wealth of the east and the eastern star , is their next destination.