Forget the Pentagon videos; how could a plane have reached the building?

I was just reading through threads about Pentagon videos, whether they're real or not, but there's one thing people seem to miss.

The Pentagon is the command center of the most powerful armed forces in the world. That makes it the #1 target of any enemy of the US.

If you were in charge of the Pentagon, wouldn't you defend it? Wouldn't you be ready for a plane or missile hit? There are probably enough surface to air missilles at the Pentagon to take out (at least) a small country's entire aviation. There must be guns and cannons for planes flying low. And I would expect that these defenses would not be limited to the immediate surroundings of the building. They probably have planes and/or helicopters permanently circling the building. And who knows what else? It would be interesting to hear from someone who has actually worked on defense for the Pentagon about full defensive capabilities.

Anyway, how could a plane possibly fly through all those defenses and hit the building? The only way anything will hit the building is if the US armed forces (or at least certain key personnel) would let it hit.

The skeptics say 'there are no missile batteries' around the Pentagon, I don't know how true that is, however you are correct.

It seems ludicrous to suppose that a passenger JET after what happened in N.Y, actually hit the Pentagon, that it made it that far.

Originally posted by talisman
The skeptics say 'there are no missile batteries' around the Pentagon, I don't know how true that is

It's true.
As two of the departure procedures from RR intl. is very close to Pentagon shooting on low flying aircrafts would be very impractical and one hell of a mess.

Having a look at this picture keep in mind that aircrafts with less performance would be at a much lower altitude at Pentagon.

(Click on the picture for full size)

Originally posted by ajmusicmediaAnyway, how could a plane possibly fly through all those defenses and hit the building?

A particularly interesting question given the plane was being tracked and the order to shoot down commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists had allegedly already been given.

reply to post by coughymachine


It would be even more interesting if the order had definintely been given. As it is, it's merely a suggestion of interest based on an unsubstantiated situation.

Originally posted by dave420
reply to post by coughymachine

 

It would be even more interesting if the order had definintely been given.

Mineta's testimony makes it clear an order had been given. The fact that he hadn't yet arrived at the PEOC when it was given simply means he could not testify to the specific nature of that order. But, in responding to Hamilton's statement that "there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down", he replies, "[s]ubsequently I found that out."

It almost doesn't matter how you interpet this; either way it's troublesome. If the order to shoot down FL77had been given, why wasn't it acted upon? If the order given was not to shoot, then you have to ask why, when it was clear from earlier events that the plane was likely to be flown into a building.

America's defense building couldn't even defend itself against 1 plane. That is bull they let it happen. Obviously.

A while back another poster suggested the possibilty that a missile had been fired at the plane but slightly too late and it followed the plane into the building. Shooting down a large passenger aircraft over the capital would be a hard decision to make and if successful could result in a worse disaster than actually happened.

It has me thinking at least

Originally posted by Pilgrum
Shooting down a large passenger aircraft over the capital would be a hard decision to make and if successful could result in a worse disaster than actually happened.

It wouldn't have been so much of an issue if it had been shot down whilst 50 miles out.

And we know from Mineta that the order (which he believes was to shoot FL77 down) had been given before the plane got to within 50 miles.

Originally posted by coughymachine
And we know from Mineta that the order (which he believes was to shoot FL77 down) had been given before the plane got to within 50 miles.

Wouldn't that would allow less than 10 minutes at typical cruise speed of the 757 for a suitably armed interceptor to get in position, positively identify the plane, lock on and fire?

The damage at the pentagon isn't consistent with an air-to-air missile though.

reply to post by ajmusicmedia

I agree that it's very strange that the representative center of US national military power was so easily attacked. Not too many people ever say that though. Good thought.

Originally posted by Pilgrum
Wouldn't that would allow less than 10 minutes at typical cruise speed of the 757 for a suitably armed interceptor to get in position, positively identify the plane, lock on and fire?

Not necessarily.

Clearly the plane was being tracked from much further than 50 miles out. It only got to within 50 miles when Mineta entered the PEOC. And, by this time, the order in respect of FL77 - whatever it was - had already been given.

Further, why would an order be given - and then re-confirmned on three separate occasions in Mineta's presence - unless it was possible to act upon either the order itself or else a change to that order?

If it is any consolation you could fly a plane into the UK's MOD building in London tomorrow and there is nothing we could do about it. Stopping a suicidal pilot on an attack run is extremely difficult, just ask veterans of the WWII Pacific Fleet! Even if the plane were hit with a missile on the target run, the missile would have to annihilate the plane completely to prevent the bulk of the wreckage crashing into something.

Originally posted by Naboo the Enigma
If it is any consolation you could fly a plane into the UK's MOD building in London tomorrow and there is nothing we could do about it.

Stated in this way, I would probably agree.

However, I don't agree it would be so straightforwad if we talking about trying it some 40 minutes after two planes had already been flown into two other 'important' buildings, particularly when the plane in question was being tracked.

reply to post by xion329alpha


I can imagine what happened when Clinton was under attack by a small plane when it crashed into the White House back in the 90s. I guess we Americans are not invincible. Past history has shown that.

O yeah besides that, you notice that after 9/11 there were Humvee equipped Avengers armed with Stinger missiles to deter any more possible air attacks, and increased in air cover. Too little too late.

reply to post by deltaboy



So, had China and Russia sneaked an attack that day, basically the entire United States defense would have been wiped out? I mean, it is difficult to see how they had no measures to defend the Pentagon on a day like 9/11.

reply to post by talisman


Well gee an invasion force with fighter bombers, ships, transports from the outside can be easily detected then a small group of people inside our country attacking with CIVILIANS PLANES!!

THey obviously were expecting something to hit that wedge for they just completed installing blast resistant windows and walls. Good timing.

The work was done by Masonry Arts. The same company that did the windows for WTC, and Alfred P murrah building. Neat little connection there.

What's luck is the terrorist flew the plane right into the contruction equipment and the newly fortified walls.

reply to post by deltaboy



Hang on, but in the confusion of 9/11, had China and Russia decided to attack it sounds like it would have been game over.

Also, who says the 'transponders' would be ON for the United States to detect military craft from China and Russia, since they lost some of the passenger Jets it would seem that they might have a hard time detecting China or Russia if they choose to be discreet.

Either they have a top notch air defense or they don't. Part of that "top notch" is being able to deal with un-expected events. I mean that's what military planners and people do, they prepare for what you or I wouldn't think might happen on a given day.