Battle Rifle or Assault Rifle? What do you bring with you?

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posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 12:20 AM
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My future father in law just gave me my first gun. Its a 303 British. I am a city boy who in til I meant my fience had never been in the woods. Her and her family are survivalist and they have interested me in living instead of dying. My father in law was a special forces sniper and I am amazed at his toughness. When he took me on ,my first deer hunting trip two years ago he never moved not even a twitch for 3 hours. My behind was hurting after 10 minutes. finally he told me to stay here and he got up and moved. He admitted later on that my twitching drove him crazy.


He said I didn't do bad for some one who never left his cushy city chair. I asked him the OP question and his reply was to send me to. Sniper Rifles He said to read all the post Of this thread and look at the chart near the bottom of the Sniper rifle page and make up my own mind.

So I have done that and my conclusion is, with my limited experience The only weapon that would do me would be my 303. Rate of fire sucks but I am a crack shot with it and I am comfortable with it. Being comfortable is in my opinion very important. I wont fool my self into thinking I answered the OP but I gave my opinion. hope it helps just a little.




posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 03:11 AM
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Geez... I thought this was the "Survival" thread. Not the "Can't wait to cap some ass" thread. You don't need to penetrate looter Kevlar at the refugee camp at 400 yards. Lighten up you guys!

My bugout plan has a 9mm sidearm, a big knife, a 12 gauge pump, and a 22 rifle for small game. More importantly, buy food and water and stock up. Get some solar panels, extra gas and propane, a rain barrel, plant a garden (no kevlar). Of course that stuff is not as much fun as capin ass. Don't be insulted, I like guns too. I'm just sayin.

Bottom line... If I absolutely have to shoot someone, it will be life changing event for everyone involved. It won't matter if it is a tiny 22 in the leg. The threat is eliminated. That is what we are talking about isn't it. Threat elimination.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 06:52 AM
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Great link for the CMP. Do you know if they report like a regular FFL?
I usually only buy from shows for that reason.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by Tinhatman]



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 07:15 AM
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FAL all the way. Can't beat the simplicity of the action, ease of use and pure grrrrr effect of the 7.62 NATO. There's nothing as satisfying as the solid recoil and booming bark of the first round going down range from a SLR, with the knowledge that there are 19 more just like it in the mag.

Don't get me wrong, I like intermediate cartridges (5.56/7.62 short etc), but in a situation where rapid or automatic fire is unlikely to be needed, you just can't beat a decent 7.62x51.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 08:58 AM
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reply to post by kdeery
 


This is the survival thread. It's a good idea to be better armed than your oppenents and be able to get them long before they get you.

With your choice of weapons I would feel horribley underarmed in any situation.

Example.

Gang of looters is on your street going house to house. You know they are coming and there are 6 of them. Your shotgun may scare them but until they get up close you are not going to do much damage. You fir a few rounds with your 9mm as they get into your yard, say 20 yards or so. You may hit a few but by this point they will be firing back in a big way.
If you had an SKS you could have taken them all comfortable while they were across the street at your neighbors house some 30-50 yards away.
Or when they were still 3 or 4 houses down (my hood has big yeards)

OR. A gang of looters/rioters etc are heading down the street and there are a whole bunch of them. If you had a battle rifle or some other long gun you could put a couple of big rounds into the crowd and while they scatter or panic or fire ineffectually at you with THEIR 9mm or shotguns you make your escape.

OR. Your on the move and someone has set up a road block, with a proper long gun you can clear the road long before they clear you.

In everyday life you will probably never need to pull a gun. In Sit-X the brandishing of a firearm may be necessary. I've seen shotguns on peoples shoulders after a hurricane when order was never lost. in a deep pile of Sit-x your chances of having to shoot at someone may invrease exponentially. I would hate to not make it because I thought a 9mm would be enough.

I hope I never nned to shoot at someone wearing body armor. That would mean the you would probably need a shovel to find the fan.


I would at least consider upgrading to a pistol caliber carbine. Most are not much heavier than a big pistol and it will increase your effective range out 70 yards or so, depending on you and the weapon. I have a Hi-Point 995 that becomes hit or miss at about 85 yards using the iron sights.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 09:25 AM
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I agree, a pistol caliber carbine would perhaps be the best idea, especially for those intending to stay in the city. It will give you the advantage over most people in the city. Those carrying battle rifles and such will be slightly less mobile than you, and you are out ranging all shot guns and pistols. Also, since many of you possible antagonists will be carrying pistols, you get the benefit of potentially using their ammo for your rifle. Would help keep ammo stocks supplied. In a sit-x, a stock pile of ammo is generally useless over the long run, as it will dwindle over time, make you a tempting target for others, and if you decide to go mobile, you have to take it with you, which means unless your really hardcore and don't mind lugging 50 lbs of ammo, your traveling on roads in a vehicle, easily the most dangerous form of travel in a bad sit-x. Plus, high the caliber, the heaver the ammo, the less you can carry. Pistole caliber carbines would allow you to carry quite a bit more ammo then a long range rifle caliber like a .303, plus you would be more readily able to pick ammo up along the way.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 09:30 AM
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reply to post by Tenebrous
 


A lot of suburban areas have a greater distance to deal with. True cities or heavily urbanized areas can not go wrong with a pistol cal. carbine.

One of the nice things about the SKS is that you can carry 200 rds. in a chest rig and it is really not that heavy.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 09:45 AM
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Good point.


In response to your worries about road blocks, wouldn't the ability to be mobile and sneak around be best option?

No matter how great of a shot, there is always the wounding possibility, and if the wounded play dead as you pass by, you have created the possibility of created some dude who has a vendetta on you for killing all his buddies.

Best to avoid killing anyone IMO, for this reason if not for moral reasons.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 10:22 AM
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I have a SKS, Saiga 12, PSL but in a situation I'd most likely grab my .308 CETME. Nice G3-type battle rifle thats extremely accurate at 400+ yrds.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 10:23 AM
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reply to post by Tenebrous
 


Better not to have to move IMHO. Stay hunkered with supplies. But they say "the best laid plans of mice and men".

Shooting people is not what any of us want to look forward to.

This is just a discussion of possibilites and may help others in determining their choices. We are survivalists becuase we prepare to survive in all sorts of scenarios. I have done the big storms and even a few massive wildfires. Been cut off etc etc. This is just one of many possibilites. Martial capabalities definiiely fall into the survival category and their are lot's of members I am sure that have not given it much thought. Hope this thread helps.



[edit on 5-3-2008 by Tinhatman]


[edit on 5-3-2008 by Tinhatman]



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 10:27 AM
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Body armor and ceramic plates are nice if you have them, but from what I've been told half the guys in Iraq don't unless things have changed recently. They either have to share what armor is issued, or buy their own. What's next? Make them buy their own bullets?

If someone could make a shot out at the 400+ yd range, I'd imagine they could also hit a person's head, knees, armpits, or groin area as well. Body armor has it's limitations like everything else. These areas are much less protected to allow for freedom of movement.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 11:21 AM
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This is a great thread. I'm pretty green on these things but I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

What about the AR-10? I hear there are reliability issues but not much else....is this a decent battle rifle?

I've been considering a M4 for a while....now I'm not so sure.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 11:31 AM
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The obvious answer is the one that you have with you and can access quickly. But, you already know this.
I too like the sks I have the paratrooper model with the detachable ak mags. They are preban and now have folding polymer stocks. They are easy to stash about anywhere.
But then again it might be nice to have a little better firepower. I will keep my mouth shut about that. I really don't forsee any situation where a heads up ell prepared person would ever have to face body armor. If it gets to that you probably screwed up somewhere else first.

respectfully

reluctantpawn



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by reluctantpawn
 
You're probably right about the body armor. If they do have it, it will most likely be scavenged. Most looters will rely on numbers to overwhelm you rather than high tech equipment, planning, or sound strategy. In that case you'd be best to hoof it out of there as quickly as possible till things setlle down a bit.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 11:46 AM
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reply to post by wills120
 


I would skip anything in .223 See Cavscout's earlier post.

The AR-10 is supposed to be a great weapon from everything I have heard. Having never fired one though it is just hearsay. My only issue is that $1500 dollar price tag.


Though you can buy some really neat bits and parts for an M-4 and most soldiers surveyed like the weapon


[edit on 5-3-2008 by Tinhatman]

[edit on 5-3-2008 by Tinhatman]



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 04:38 PM
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I own a Chinese Paratrooper SKS carbine. It sports a 6x x40m Leapers compact scope and it's capable of putting a full magazine into 10" circle at 500 yards. The 6x scope is about the maximum magnification power you'll need for the 7.62x 39mm round.

If I had to go with a battle rifle, it would be a bolt action in .30-'06. The -06 is a very versatile cartridge case With modern powders and primers, you can reach 3200 fps with 150 grain,.308 caliber bullets with it and not blow up your gun. The optimum form of the -'06 for long range is the 6.5mm-'06. For serious down range punch against large game and material, .338 -'06 delivers over 40% more energy at the muzzle and give the century old round lethality at 1500m. There's has to be a hundred cartridges that can be formed from the -'06 from .22 -405 in caliber.

Any of the WW1 military bolt action cartridges would be a good choice for a survival round. These include the most of the Mauser rounds from 6.5mm-8mm, .303 British, and the 7.62x54 MN Russian. The Russian Moisin-Nagant rifle is very wallet friendly and will do anything that the 7.62 NATO can.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 04:39 PM
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Here ya go.

www.simonov.net...


I'm one of those goobs that still has the same box of shells from 12 years ago. 6 to site in after a bore site, 4 shells, 4 deer, and I still got 10 left. 30.06 though, so good ones ain't cheap. I make each one work.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by quantum windSo I have done that and my conclusion is, with my limited experience The only weapon that would do me would be my 303. Rate of fire sucks but I am a crack shot with it and I am comfortable with it. Being comfortable is in my opinion very important. I wont fool my self into thinking I answered the OP but I gave my opinion. hope it helps just a little.

Assuming you have a Short Magazine Lee-Enfield (S.M.L.E.) you should be able to crack out 20-30 shots per minute with practice. Not bad for a bolt action rifle of any day. Who needs a semi or full auto? Great rifles, imo.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 04:56 PM
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reply to post by Illahee
 




"a peace of pipe with a stock attached to it"

I love my Yugo SKS. It is by far my favorite gun other then the 1911 I carry always. With Iron sights I hold my own against any modern rifle within 150 yards. I won't win any mathes or anything but meh..

I think most of us here when we say assault rifle we mean anything with a cut down round like the 7.62x39 or the Nato 5.56x41. The SKS is truly not an assault rifle, but for this thread and the use we would put it through we keep it there.

Great link!

Oh, and if you go buy an SKS you can go through a whole box of ammo and still get lunch. You can stop signing that equity loan to go buy some .30-06 now.



posted on Mar, 5 2008 @ 05:07 PM
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If you own an acrage I suggest a Mechem NTW 20mm Anti Material Rifle, thats home defense right there


The ultimate in anti-looter technology.
Mechem NTW 20mm Anti Material Rifle





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