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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 12:08 PM by InSpiteOf
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Originally posted by BugZyZuncle
Rest assured that God will let you believe anything that your deceived minds can conjur. He wants no part of you!
Really? I thought god loved us all and wanted us all in heaven?
Besides, my argument isnt that god does not exist because everything in the bible is a drug trip. My argument is that certain drugs in combination
with spiritual exploration get you more in touch with god. After all, it was god that put these plants and substances on earth, right?
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 12:10 PM by IMAdamnALIEN
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The only thing that gets me is this....
Have you researched into the "Bible Code"?
Its a pretty amazing thing really!
Mathematically sound, and full of weird history matrix's, the Bible Code predicts possible futures, and allows you to view a matrix of events by
inputing and searching for keywords found in the old testament I believe.
For this to be a reality, I believe that ET's have to be responsible for the hidden mathematical matrix inside the Bible.
With that being said, THERE IS NO WAY that humans back then could have possibly encoded the bible with staggering mathematically sound matrix's.
So,
I believe drugs had a part, but, not this part.
The Bible was made by omniscient beings.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 01:19 PM by Keeper of Kheb
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food for thought, moses brought over 2 million people out of egypt, do you think they all were high? Highly doubt it....pardon the pun
Keeper
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 01:21 PM by scientist
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i have to agree. in fact, only interpretation of religious text involves lots of ethneogens. A great movie/book on this topic is called a
Pharmacratic Inquisition.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 01:23 PM by crestone
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 01:24 PM by junglejake
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Originally posted by crestone
You are omitting the fact that the book was edited. That blows your logic right out of the water. If you pick and choose you can make any texts look
like they would go together.
The fact? Based on what? With the Dead Sea Scrolls in conjunction with the Septuagint, that's a pretty tough claim to maintain with any
scholarly credibility...
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 01:51 PM by crestone
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I have a question regarding the origins and veracity of the Bible. Isn't it a book that is firmly based on faith? Faith cannot be scientifically
proven, yet many followers of Christ make IMHO pseudoscientific statements, and draw historical, factual conclusions that are not 100% clear ( at
least to me  )
Is there a lack of faith, overshadowed by the current zeitgeist to explain every mystery?
Same thing with the "other" side that is trying to disprove and attack what cannot be attacked, because it is a belief system.
IMHO the Bible's origins are shrouded in mystery. Was Moses high when he wrote down those words? Who knows for sure and who cares? There is so much
knowledge in that book. It will keep us spiritually fed for eons to come. That's what I care about
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:01 PM by crestone
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Originally posted by junglejake
Originally posted by crestone
You are omitting the fact that the book was edited. That blows your logic right out of the water. If you pick and choose you can make any texts look
like they would go together.
The fact? Based on what? With the Dead Sea Scrolls in conjunction with the Septuagint, that's a pretty tough claim to maintain with any
scholarly credibility...
Hey,
Just saw your post. Thank you for your reply.
Well, I'm happy that you believe in your scholarly credibility. I believe that the rabbit hole is deeper than you think  Does the KJV have the
same amount of books as the Ethiopian bible? Ah, who did the edit? Now, do you think there would be ancients texts that we were not told of ... Of
course not
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:13 PM by junglejake
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While this may appear to be a rabbit trail, I think it does relate to the original topic in that, if scripture can be demonstrated to be true
extrabiblically, that is, outside of the Bible, even outside of Christianity, it causes the argument of millennia of high Jews to weaken
significantly.
I, by the way, make no claim of scholarship, but have read many articles and essays by learned athiests who probably know more about Christianity than
I do who dismiss the rewritten argument as weak and focus instead on areas that have stronger evidence. The statements made regarding books being
changed, added or detracted applies to only the new testament, and can be addressed, too, but for now I'm going to focus on, first, the Old
testament, and then Jesus Himself.
In the case of the Old Testament, we have several copies from antiquity that are remarkably similar, namely the Dead Sea Scrolls and the Septuagint.
Both were discovered only recently from thousands of years ago and were the same texts as those kept by Jews today as the Torah, historical books and
books of the prophets. To have modified this, the conspirators must have known about Christianity about 400 years before Christ, or had time machines.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:24 PM by junglejake
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Regarding Jesus/Mushroom Symbolism
I wrote this a while back but can't find the post. Thankfully, I had a copy I had emailed myself, so here it is:
In his book "Why I Am Not A Christian", Bertrand Russell states,
Historically it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and if He did we do not know anything about Him.
Russell, it seems, has either turned a blind eye to the extra-biblical information (information outside of the Bible that speaks of Jesus), or he also
doesn't believe Queen Elizabeth, Alexander the Great, Ramses the Great, Cleopatra nor Agustus Caesar ever existed or, if they did, that we know
nothing about them. Kind of an audacious claim...Let's see what information is out there that talks of Christ.
Cornelius Tacitus was a Roman historian who was typically seen as the greatest historian of ancient Rome, according to Gary Habermas in The Verdict of
History. Tacitus wrote two histories, one called The Annals that talks about the time from Augustus's death, 14 AD, to the death of Nero in 68 AD.
The other book, The Histories, follow from 68 to 96 AD. In the Annals, he writes,
But not all the relief that could come from man, not all the bounties that the prince could bestow, nor all the atonements which could be
presented to the gods, availed to relieve Nero from the infamy of being believed to have ordered the conflagration, the fire of Rome. Hence to
suppress the rumor, he falsely charged with the guilt, and punished with the most exquisite tortures, the persons commonly called Christians, who were
hated for their enormities. Christus [common pagan misspelling of Christ], the founder of the name, was put to death by Pontius Pilate, procurator of
Judea in the reign of Tiberius: but the pernicious superstition, repressed for a time, broke out again, not only through Judea, where the mischief
originated, but through the city of Rome also.
So in a rather unflattering manner, Tacitus notes that Jesus did exist, and had been put to death by Pilate. Norman Anderson even suspects that this
passage alludes to Jesus's resurrection, when it notes that the superstition was checked for a moment before again breaking out.
Lucian of Samosata, a Greek satirist who lived in the latter half of the second century, spoke rather sarcastically of Christ and Christians in his
The Death of Peregrine, never doubting Christ's existance, but rather mocking Christians for their worship of Him.
The Christians, you know, worship a man who to this day--the distinguished personage who introduced their novel rites, and was crucified on that
account... You see, these misguided creatures start with the general conviction that they are immortal for all time, which explains the contempt of
death and voluntary self-devotion which are so common among them; and then it was impressed on them by their original lawgiver that they are all
brothers, from the moment that they are converted, and deny the gods of Greece, and worship the crucified sage, and live after his laws. All this they
take quite on faith, with the result that they despise all worldly goods alike, regarding them merely as common property.
Then there's Suetonius, yet another Roman historian under Hadrian. He stated in his Life of Claudius,
As the Jews were making constant disturbances at the instigation of Chrestus, he [Claudius] expelled them from Rome.
This event was described in Acts 18:2:
There he met a Jew named Aquila, a native of Pontus, who had recently come from Italy with his wife Priscilla, because Claudius had ordered all
the Jews to leave Rome. Paul went to see them,
I expect you've heard of Pliny the Younger, a familiar name to any who have seriously researched Christ in secular and anti-Christian accounts. He
was the governor of Bithynia in Asia Minor around 112. He was writing a letter to the emperor Trajan to find how to treat the Christians, noting he'd
been killing them left and right, male and female, adult and child, but so many were being put to death he wondered if he should stop killing them all
and instead only kill certain ones. He went on to write of their crime:
They affirmed, however, that the whole of their guilt, or their error, was, that they were in the habit of meeting on a certain fixed day before
it was light, when they sang in alternate verse a hymn to Christ as to a god, and bound themselves to a solemn oath, not to do any wicked deeds, but
never to commit any fraud, theft, adultery, never to falisfy their word, not to deny a trust when they should be called upon to deliver it us.
This was a mere 80 years after Christ's crucifixion. There may have still been some first hand accounts of what took place on that hill several years
ago, and many who had heard of it from first hand accounts. The fact that Christianity had spread to Asia Minor alread validates Paul's travels,
among others. Were they telling of this when people who had witnessed the crucifixion were around, such as when Paul took the gospel to Asia Minor,
people would have stepped in and denied Christ's existance, or at least said it happened a different way.
What about earlier, though? Around the time of Christ's death, during the period spoken of in the book of Acts. It would be foolish to think that a
carpenter would be spoken of in any histories during his life, or even an influential rabbi who had only been preaching for 3 years, but what about
after? Thallus is one of the first secular historians who mentions Christ, around 52 AD. His writing has been quoted by others, but, sadly, does not
still exist today. One such individual who quotes him is Julius Africanus. He quotes a passage in Thallus' work that talks about the darkness
enveloping the land in the late afternoon when Jesus died on the cross. Africanus writes in his Chronography,
Thallus, in the third book of his histories, explains away this darkness as an eclipse of the sun--unreasonably, as it seems to me (unreasonably,
of course, because a solar eclipse could not take place at the time of the full moon, and it was at the season of the Paschal full moon that Christ
died).
And already in 70 AD, philosophers were trying to call Jesus a philosopher instead of who He claimed to be during His life. Mara Bar-Serapion, a
Syrian philosopher wrote his son from prision,
What advantage did the Athenians gain from putting Socrates to death? Famine and plague came upon them as a judgment for their crime. What
advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. What advantage did the Jews gain from
executing their wise King? It was just after that that their kingdom was abolished. God justly avenged these three wise men: The Athenians died of
hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea; the Jews, ruined and driven from their land, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates did not die
for good; he lived on in the teaching of Plato. Pythagoras did not die for good; he lived on in the statue of Hera. Nor did the wise King die for
good; He lived on in the teaching which He had given.
So to say there is no extra-Biblical source showing Christ ever existed is to turn a blind eye to all of history and essentially claim nothing existed
before your memory. These were the secular, pagan writers speaking of Christ. I didn't even mention Josephus, nor any of the other Jewish or
Christians who wrote about Him extra-Biblically. So to say that Christ was just a symbolic metaphor for taking mushrooms would be to ignore many who
were outside of the whole scripture writing process.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:41 PM by crestone
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reply to post by junglejake
Sorry for going off-topic again, but you didn't answer my 2 questions about KJV/Ethiopian bible and WHO did the edit at all
Merci
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:47 PM by InSpiteOf
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reply to post by junglejake
Those were both exellent posts, but of those you quoted, how many of them actaully saw the man Name Jesus? Spent time with him? Ate a meal or shared
a drink with him?
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:55 PM by Bigwhammy
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Originally posted by IMAdamnALIEN
The only thing that gets me is this....
With that being said, THERE IS NO WAY that humans back then could have possibly encoded the bible with staggering mathematically sound matrix's.
So,
I believe drugs had a part, but, not this part.
The Bible was made by omniscient beings.
It's so obvious you aren't seeing the forest for the trees.
Omniscient beings = God and the Angels
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:59 PM by junglejake
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reply to post by InSpiteOf
Would you die for a mushroom? Everyone who did eat and drink with Him died for Him. Did they do it for alliteration?
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 02:59 PM by AshleyD
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Originally posted by Conspiracy Theorist
THE biblical Israelites may have been high on a hallucinogenic plant when Moses brought the Ten Commandments down from Mount Sinai, according
to a new study by an Israeli psychology professor.
Hey! At least they're agreeing with the Mosaic authorship of the Pentateuch!
But seriously, the title of the article sounds a little sensational. 'The Bible' was written by dozens of authors spanning many centuries. Not just
by Moses who authored the Torah.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 03:25 PM by Bigwhammy
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I get real tired of hearing how it is all edited to make the prophecy true.
The Great Isaiah Scroll has been carbon dated to a range of 335 BC-107 BC.. It is nearly identical to the text we have today. So what's all this
editing? Sure there have translation issues but it is remarkably intact.
It contains prophecies about Yeshua that came true centuries later. Verifying the supernatural foreknowledge of the future and that Yeshua was the
messiah.
Ok two versions at least 1000 years apart. Prophecy of the coming Messiah Yeshua (jesus)
Below is the King James Version of Isaiah 53:1-3.
[1] Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor comeliness; and when we shall see him,
there is no beauty that we should desire him.
[3] He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we
esteemed him not.
Below is the same passage from the Great Isaiah Scroll.
[1] Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
[2] For he shall grow up before him as a tender plant, and as a root out of a dry ground: he hath no form nor he hath comeliness; and when we shall
see him, there is no beauty that we should desire ourselves.
[3] He is despised and rejected of men and man of sorrows, and he knows grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; and despised him, and we
esteemed him not.
Now how severe are those differences? For 1000s of years and translations?
Still predicting the life of Christ clearly millenia before his birrth.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 04:24 PM by InSpiteOf
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reply to post by junglejake
First, just to clarify: I do not necessarily feel that The Christ was actually a metaphorical figure and actually a mushroom. I like the theory
because it actually does raise interesting parallels between a culture, suppression of religion during dangerous times, and an iconic creation that
gives its users (or followers, perhaps?) a unique connection to God.
As for your question, if the mushroom represented a sacred connection between man and god (in the way listed above)? I don't know, I'm not in that
position and I cant extrapolate on this issue.
Would you have died for your Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ?
Edit to add: The above line has no intention of malice or anger.
I just reread that part and felt it was a little hostile. I didn't take it out because I actually want a response to it, but nonetheless felt it
necessary to include this note.
[edit on 4-3-2008 by InSpiteOf]
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 06:23 PM by runetang
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I'm sorry but I dont buy this one bit. Not just because I'm pro-Bible, but because it doesn't make sense at the root level. Let me explain.
Being relatively experienced with psychedelics and psycho-active substances at one point or another, I can speak on this with some experience.
When under the influence of a religiously used, psychedelic substance, you and the man next to you do not share the same experience and effects from
the substance. What I mean is, the visions created from the psychedelic will not be identical because every brain is different, therefore every
personal hallucination will be somewhat different, even if they share similarities, there WILL be differences.
So you tell me, how did 600,000 witness the same hallucination, at the same time, as the Red Sea was parted in front of them, as they could hear the
thunderous sound of hundreds of chariots in pursuit? That sounds like a really bad trip if you ask me, and on top of it, a bad trip shared by 600,000
people universally. Why .. that would have to be a miracle, a gift from God for that to happen. So at the end, whether God parted the sea, or the
people all shared the exact same hallucination (impossible without the grace of God), it was still a God given miracle, lol. It is really that cut and
dry, IMO.
No two people "tripping" on a hallucinogen will have identical experiences, much less 600,000. Let me add that if they were on this substance when
Moses went to the top of Mt Sinai to get the Commandments, they wouldn't have had the same visions then EITHER. And on top of that, they wouldn't
have been organized enough and capable enough in such a state as to build a "golden calf idol" that they built while waiting for Moses to return.
How do you sculpt that sucker when you're all bugged out on some trip?
And what of the tablets themselves, the 10 commandments. The story goes, Moses was angered by the golden calf idol and throws them and breaks them.
How did they all see this? And this attests to the "fact" that the golden calf was indeed present, something a bunch of hippies at a grateful dead
festival could NOT accomplish under the influence. And one man, Moses, under the influence would've had some trouble carving those rules up on stone,
considering all the peoples witnessed the same events.
Bottom line: If they witnessed the same events, be they hallucinations or not, this in itself is technically impossible without direct intervention
of God, ie; God working the minds of each of the 600,000 israelites to witness the exact same hallucination, which in itself is a miracle of
God.
Nothing else to see here folks, please proceed to the next religious topic.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 06:49 PM by Thurisaz
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reply to post by GradyPhilpott
Yes I agree, if Moses was in fact wasted then that would throw doubt on only five books in the OT.
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reply posted on 4-3-2008 @ 06:56 PM by IMAdamnALIEN
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reply to post by Bigwhammy
Umm,
No....
God is a force not a being.....
Angels are merely spirit guides.....
I should have been more clear.....
ALIENS made the Bible!
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