The Early Signs of Public Unrest and Social Chaos?, page 2

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reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 05:34 PM by kosmicjack

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott

Eco-terrorists and anarchists.

These nuts are a real threat and unfortunately, their members make Islamist terrorists seem like paragons of rational thought, plus they are home-grown.

First off great thread. Starred and Flagged.

However, the above post reminds me of the old addage that one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

It is only through the lens of history that we can tell them apart, if at all. If a bit of upheaval causes a permanent change in society for the better or a change in overall consciousness for the better, well...sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind. No one ever wants to know how the sausage is made but it still tastes good.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 05:45 PM by an3rkist

I agree with you jack. And GradyPhilpott, I've enjoyed many of your posts, but I am personally offended by this one! I happen to be an anarchist, and I hope you don't mean to put me to death! Anyway, I'd like to refer you to the wise words of Joseph Sobran:

"By a very conservative estimate, a hundred million people have died at the hands of their own governments in this century. Given that record, how bad could anarchy be?"

And I think it should be mentioned that our forefathers were as much anarchists as I and many others are. I do not condone violence except under extreme conditions, but I am, in fact, an anarchist.

And these people who are acting out, (even the people involved in the school shootings possibly, as was mentioned), are victims of circumstance. We live in a society that is breeding unrest, and when the government is supposed to listen, AND IT DOESN'T, people improvise. The government and the so-called "elite" need to realize they are bringing this upon themselves by suppressing our freedom. I won't be killing anyone any time soon, but in the words of Patrick Henry:

"Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 06:04 PM by marg6043

Now we know what prompted this administration to start making laws, bills and legislation to control and spy in every aspect of the American people.

The signs were there when this administration decided to make harder for Americans to claim bankruptcy, they knew the housing and credit bubble was going to burst.

All your hear is the Markets the bail outs to the big financial corporations, but you do hear what the government is going to help the citizens to survive this economic woes brought to us by the same financial institutions that make themselves very profitable from the scams.

What is there for the people? But hardship, more population control and government breathing over our necks to make sure that we do not rise against them.

When people loses everything they starts rioting if help is no there, desperate families will do anything to feed their children.

US economists are becoming increasingly concerned about America's ailing mortgage market and and the debt burden being carried by tens of millions of households, according to a survey released Monday.

afp.google.com...

Is millions of people all over the nation facing the results of this ailing economy, millions of them

The Fed is covering the butts of the financial sector but who is helping with the credit mess not body, as the job grow gets stagnant and people keeps losing jobs to outsourcing is nothing there to help American families get out of the financial mess

The fed can not lower anymore the rates without collapsing the dollar, then what is there for America and its citizens but anger and resentment.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by marg6043]

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 06:18 PM by guyopitz

I think at this point people are starting to get clued in to the real danger we face in the world today. The extinction level event thats happening. Rampant global warming.

I want the sweat of my brow, the money I earn for myself so I can try and prepare for the coming end times. I need bottled water, filters, solar panels, canned food etc. Guns, Tools etc. I want to be ready to survive. However a huge investment of my time and money goes to the bastards in power to build their doomsday bunkers in the side of mountains. When things really get bad they will be fine, its the little guys like me living at the poverty line who will suffer the most. Billions will die.

Our civilization is built on fantasy. The american dream. Its not based in reality, its not sane. Its not sustainable. Everyone needs to turn 100% of their energy and time towards preparing for the worst case scenarios if we want to have a prayer of survival in the next 100 years on earth.

Unfortunately anarchy and political unrest arent going to do us any good. Sure it feels good but It isnt going to help us survive. We need to push our technology to the limit and do everything we can while there is still time. Its going to be like a Mad Max movie when people start taking what they need to survive from other people around them. Its going to become war for basic necessities. I don't see how a police state is doing any good. Maybe they have their important people in bunkers already. Maybe they just want the rest of us to die off.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 06:37 PM by whitewave

reply to post by Tinhatman

I agree with much of what you're saying but I have to add that I probably have a somewhat sheltered existence since I don't see so much of this happening. I see people financially foundering with barely a whimper. No guns, riots, destruction of private or public property. Just quietly and meekly giving up never to be heard from or seen again.

I think most people realize that any revolution that "we the people" could pull off would not be like the French revolution. The peasants may have only had sticks and stones against the governments' firearms but todays peasants would only have sticks and stones against the governments' extremely high tech weaponry. Mind control, eternal surveillance, project blue beam. Even if a few folks had guns that hadn't been confiscated, it would still be no match against the HAARP project. I don't think we'll even have overwhelming numbers to aid us. Most people will just surrender.

Mob mentality is a truly frightening experience. Witnessing some mob mentality of a foreign country on the television set is not the same as being in a crowded theater when some one yells "fire!". I pray that people can peacefully work out these overwhelming problems we all face because we're all in the same sinking boat together and I shudder to think of this "me" generation going on an animal rampage.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 06:48 PM by an3rkist

Originally posted by whitewave
I think most people realize that any revolution that "we the people" could pull off would not be like the French revolution. The peasants may have only had sticks and stones against the governments' firearms but todays peasants would only have sticks and stones against the governments' extremely high tech weaponry. Mind control, eternal surveillance, project blue beam. Even if a few folks had guns that hadn't been confiscated, it would still be no match against the HAARP project. I don't think we'll even have overwhelming numbers to aid us. Most people will just surrender.

Perhaps all those "great and horrible" technologies are not even real, and are just fodder for those of us who would revolt but would back down if we thought we were up against too great of odds. Personally, I don't care what I'm going to be going up against. If my freedom is on the line, or my life, I will fight to the death whatever it is that has threatened me, be it a giant weather control machine or mind control technology or a nuclear warhead flying straight towards my face. I rarely reference the Bible, but I think what you're referring to is a David vs. Goliath type of situation. If you have ever read the Bible, you would know that in that story... DAVID wins.

Thomas Jefferson said "One man with courage is a majority." And I'll be damned if I'm going to let some Goliath trample on my rights without me putting up a good fight.

[edit on 3/3/08 by an3rkist]

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 06:55 PM by kosmicjack

Originally posted by whitewave
I agree with much of what you're saying but I have to add that I probably have a somewhat sheltered existence since I don't see so much of this happening. I see people financially foundering with barely a whimper. No guns, riots, destruction of private or public property. Just quietly and meekly giving up never to be heard from or seen again.

This is due to Cognitive Dissonance. Their own private and personal experience was contrary to what was being reported, until this year, by MainStreamMedia. The people you are referring to are tried and true U.S. citizens who assumed that they must be doing something wrong and were ashamed to let others know of their "failure". They were unaware of the unseen architecture that was planning to capitalize on their downfall.

Furthermore, the failure scared their neighbors and friends (as it could be them next...) and so they were quick to criticize and shame the misfortune of others as bad decisions and foolish choices. Really though, they were just striving for the much-hawked and over-glorified "American Dream". Unfortunately, it turned into a nightmare for some and many others to follow.

Just wait, the phenomenon won't seem as vague to you within the year.

[edit on 3/3/08 by kosmicjack]

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:02 PM by Moegli

Here is a blog, underlining the different stages of societal collapse.

The Five Stages of Collapse

Although, what is being pointed out I think underestimates the strength of society when it comes to survival. I think in such a scenario, banding together is a quality that exists in every Human being, to help each other to help others and so on.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:21 PM by whitewave

reply to post by an3rkist

I wanted to stand up and cheer when I read your post. Very passionately stated.

Let me guess. You're 20 something and don't have kids? I'm 50 something and have 5 kids and even more grandkids. Honestly, though, I'm glad that there will be "anarchists" around even though anarchy never lasts long. Traditionally, anarchy has been a transitional phase of the slaves changing masters.

Twenty years ago I would have been taking up arms right beside you or covering your six but now I'd rather just lay low and try not to draw too much attention to myself.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:21 PM by WraothAscendant

reply to post by Gools

Tyler Durdon strikes again!!!!!!
hehehehheeheh.
Hey fight club did give some amusing and harmless ways of "sticking it to the man" if I didn't have a family I'd probly be doing the same thing.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:42 PM by whitewave

reply to post by kosmicjack

Thanks for the fine forensic analysis, Kosmic, but I don't have cognitive dissonance. Oklahoma is not a riot kind of place. LA, maybe. Seattle, sometimes. Scattered big city ghettos, always; just in varying degrees. I've seen signs of the times for a long time and they just keep getting amplified over the years. It's just a little slow getting to my neck of the woods. We've always been about 20 years behind the times compared to the rest of the country for which I am grateful.

What I do see here are more and more non "fringe" folk struggling to make ends meet and not winning in their struggle. I don't know what has happened to these people who were living down the street and got foreclosed on or the co-workers that made slightly less than I do and couldn't afford the day care to keep coming to work. I live quite uncomfortably close to the edge myself, friend, and all it would take is for my car with 149K miles on it and another year and a half of payments due to crap out on me. Or I get sick for just a couple of weeks and miss work. I don't go anywhere or do anything. I'm not horrifically in debt with credit cards. I live in a mobile home (nice one but still...).

I don't plan on rioting. I realize that the rules of the game are not set up for people like me to win, place, or show but there's no clearly defined enemy to attack. The problem is it's a SYSTEM of errors and, frankly, I don't know how to take on a system. Blowing up buildings for their symbolism is really pretty futile as far as attacks go. Our government got a lot of miles out of it but I don't have their advertising dollars.

I understand people's frustration and anger. I've lived with it for a long time, doing what I can to buck the system, challenge the system, subvert the system, work within the system, etc. I understand the DESIRE to riot but I don't think rioting will work. I think education, word of mouth, personal self-discipline, tolerance is the key to change. I also understand that change of any sort is usually only accomplished after much violence.

I'm not a coward. I am realistically practical. If I thought that throwing my life away was necessary to effect a positive change beneficial to all, I hope that I would not hesitate to do the right thing.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:45 PM by Nailer

Originally posted by chromatico
reply to post by AWingAndASigh

If Bush tried to order the troops to institute martial law...I think the troops would just turn the guns on him instead. The man has no support left!

It will not be regular army/marines.. It will more than likey be a Blackwater private security force and UN troops, plus the mexican army as we mean nothing to them.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:48 PM by solarstorm

The short while I was processing loans in the mortgage industry, I saw a very disturbing trend. During my 5 months as a processor, I worked for a greedy a$$ POS mortgage broker who had no problems in swaying people to do these exotic interest only, ARM's, stated income loans. I mean the vomit spewing from this jerks mouth was amazing. He was forever speculating that the housing market was just going to go up and up and up. That is what he told all of his clients and he convinced A LOT of people.

Basically back in 2004 I can tell you that 80% of the loans that flew by my desk were all of the exotic loans that you heard about. This was happening at this office and thousands of other offices nationwide. So if anyone thinks the housing market is going to get better anytime soon buckle up. More loans will be resetting this year and more foreclosures to come.

More public unrest and social chaos? I will put a lot of chips on that bet.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:50 PM by an3rkist

Originally posted by whitewave
reply to post by an3rkist

I wanted to stand up and cheer when I read your post. Very passionately stated.

Let me guess. You're 20 something and don't have kids? I'm 50 something and have 5 kids and even more grandkids. Honestly, though, I'm glad that there will be "anarchists" around even though anarchy never lasts long. Traditionally, anarchy has been a transitional phase of the slaves changing masters.

Twenty years ago I would have been taking up arms right beside you or covering your six but now I'd rather just lay low and try not to draw too much attention to myself.

You hit me dead on the head of the nail! I plan on being a twenty-something with no kids for as long as humanly possible, though.

I respect your decision to lay low in reverence of your family, and completely support it. However, it makes me wonder if perhaps the government supports the family institution for no other reason than that they know those with families will have a harder time of being rebellious to a [potentially] tyrannical regime.

I appreciate your words, but it should be noted that "taking up arms", though I'm a self-proclaimed anarchist, will be a last resort for me. I probably won't take up arms until they do first. Until then, I'll write books, make websites, write letters to my Congressman, and in general use my words as my weapon of choice. To quote Thomas Jefferson yet again:

"Educate and inform the whole mass of the people. Enable them to see that it is their interest to preserve peace and order, and they will preserve them. And it requires no very high degree of education to convince them of this. They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty."

Hopefully the mass of people can still be informed...otherwise I and others will be taking some of Jefferson's other advice:

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:50 PM by Xtrozero

Revolution doesn't happen until food drops below 800 calories per person, and I don’t see that anytime soon in the US.

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:56 PM by TheRedneck

Excellent thread.

The reality of the future events depends to a very large degree on one and only one variable: the tenacity of the American people. War is nasty. It's not like watching a movie about war. It's not like playing some war game on the X-box. It's about doing whatever you must do to survive, including watching others die at your own hand. And as bad as war is, civil war is worse.

We live in a country where a great many of the population are crying because we are fighting a war in Iraq that has claimed a few thousand of our sons' lives. How will you then react to the taking of millions? Iraqi insurgents have threatened the US mainland and tortured our citizens, yet we have no stomach for continuing the war. How then, will you justify killing your neighbor to protect a loaf of bread?

This, if we have the will to engage in it, will be a war of unheard-of proportions. You will not know who your enemy is until you are shot in the back. You will survive only by killing everyone around you, including those who would side with you, because you will not know the difference.

I have predicted this coming civil war for the past 5 years. It will not be 'us' against 'them', it will be every man for himself. City against country, black against white, rich against poor. The anger and resentment that we have built up in this country will reach the breaking point and spill out in a flood of rage that no one here, even I, cannot imagine.

May we have the same lack of determination we have shown in the War on Terror. Only by being cowards will we survive, to serve in the coming world of serfdom.

May we have the strength to endure another civil war and rebuild a world that has been ravaged by the destructive desires of a people pushed too far.

May there be another alternative to the two above.

Only the future will tell if we have the spirit to die, or the cowardice to live as slaves.

TheRedneck

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:56 PM by ExquisitExamplE

my heart light burns vindictive cinders
my head mind finds a place adjacent
all fractals act as an actual example
raise my hands lucid infusion
color the latent faded ageless
when the time comes i will be ready
steady measure the leisure gesture
invest your time in spirit
can you hear it
he speaks in a secret frequency
open your heart to love light
dove flight
some sight is meant to be hidden
you cannot hear if you cannot listen
this is a world of much beauty rudely awakened
men as creatures must be trained for the remainder
where do i stand in this land of abandon
i am a culture shock product document
a monument to the last days of a failing fabric
weave the trees with a new fusion of leaves
i've seen a great fractal spiral light the night sky
it explodes from the center of my spine chakra
i imagine a tangible thing and manifest catalyst
drown the foundation and cement your intention
learn your lesson in this lifetime and move to the next vector
stage two becomes phase three for the fourth quarter horse
grab the reins and proclaim the son of man tour de force
align the planetary defiance righteous assignment
find it within and tear it out shouting valiant
i've made this place so that i may erase it
face it

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:56 PM by an3rkist

Originally posted by Xtrozero
Revolution doesn't happen until food drops below 800 calories per person, and I don’t see that anytime soon in the US.

Food is not the only necessity of people in this nation. Some of us care more about freedom than we do about food. We may be a minority, but we are a very adamant and persistent minority. And if what you're saying is true, perhaps we need to jump the gun on this revolution and make it happen before things get that bad. Additionally, when it's that bad revolution will probably more violent than it could be if we did it now.

[edit on 3/3/08 by an3rkist]

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 07:58 PM by kosmicjack

reply to post by whitewave

Hey, I'm not preaching - just offering a reason why your acquaintances just seemed to sort of slip away.

Cogntive Dissonance is not rioting. It is the mental conflict that arises when what you experience proves to be vastly different than what you have been taught or told. The subsconscious mind needs to reconcile it in some way and often the result is not pretty.

changingminds.org...

This is the feeling of uncomfortable tension which comes from holding two conflicting thoughts in the mind at the same time.
Dissonance increases with:

• The importance of the subject to us.
• How strongly the dissonant thoughts conflict.
• Our inability to rationalize and explain away the conflict.

Dissonance is often strong when we believe something about ourselves
and then do something against that belief. If I believe I am good but do something bad, then the discomfort I feel as a result is cognitive dissonance.
Cognitive dissonance is a very powerful motivator which will often lead us to change one or other of the conflicting belief or action. The discomfort often feels like a tension between the two opposing thoughts. To release the tension we can take one of three actions:

• Change our behavior.
• Justify our behavior by changing the conflicting cognition.
• Justify our behavior by adding new cognitions.

Dissonance is most powerful when it is about our self-image. Feelings of foolishness, immorality and so on (including internal projections during decision-making) are dissonance in action. If an action has been completed and cannot be undone, then the after-the-fact dissonance compels us to change our beliefs. If beliefs are moved, then the dissonance appears during decision-making, forcing us to take actions we would not have taken before. Cognitive dissonance appears in virtually all evaluations and decisions and is the central mechanism by which we experience new differences in the world. When we see other people behave differently to our images of them, when we hold any conflicting thoughts, we experience dissonance. Dissonance increases with the importance and impact of the decision, along with the difficulty of reversing it. Discomfort about making the wrong choice of car is bigger than when choosing a lamp.

[edit on 3/3/08 by kosmicjack]

reply posted on 3-3-2008 @ 08:09 PM by kosmicjack

reply to post by Xtrozero

How many calories can a citizen afford with $4 dollar gasoline? Make no mistake, that's where it's going and probably beyond. Besides, have you not been reading the threads regarding the cereal/grain shortage, creeping inflation and the de-valued dollar?

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