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Bigfoot and The Phoenix Lights: I Just Want to Belong

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posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 10:58 AM
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I have always been fairly careful regarding my theory du jour, cautious in examining it closely, from all angles. Hey, bring that light over here. When I'm sure I've discovered something interesting and unexplainable, I talk to friends about it. Frustrating the number of co-horts I've encountered who don't subscribe to the same protocol.

What is it about some believers of the unexplained that makes them unwilling, or unable to accept defeat--accept that something they believed in has been debunked?

When I was a young man, I harbored a long-standing fascination with the Patterson film. I had been fascinated by Bigfoot since I was a boy, drove through Sasquatch's domain, The Redwood Forest, while vacationing with my parents, read lots of books, etc... I was convinced the Patterson film was real. Until one night I saw a documentary on Fox (I think) that interviewed Bob Heironimus and taped him going for a walk. The gait he walked with convinced me that he really was the man who put on a suit back in 1967 and helped Patterson and Gimlin fake the Bigfoot film. Although there are multiple pieces of video showing Bob Heironimus' walk on the web, I have been unable to find an example of the exact piece of video that convinced me. I'm not here to convince you the Patterson film is fake--what's important is I lost faith in it.

My reaction to the revelation was one of quiet disappointment. I remember thinking "Oh... well that sucks. I loved the Patterson film." From that point on, it was a curiousity to me. I still like it. I still watch it on occasion. I just don't believe it's real.

So I can say it's a bit frustrating when I run into a fellow "theory" fan and we're getting along great, and then they drop the bomb on me... "We lived in Phoenix on the night of the Phoenix Lights. A huge, silent black triangle flew over our house." Boom. It hits me like a ton of bricks. Why don't you just say you believe in the tooth fairy?

To me, the Phoenix Lights has been thoroughly debunked as a wave of reported sightings and exaggerated stories which were all instigated by a group of military flares which were dropped over the mountains on the rim of the city one night.

So what makes some refuse to admit the truth? Several factors.

A sense of alienation - A feeling of wanting to belong. Imagine if the Lord appeared to the entire world and announced the Catholic church was a false church. Would Catholics abandon their faith? Surely not, they would find a way to save face by attacking the credibility of the messenger (in this case, the Lord! Man would that be fun to see!) and forcing the new events to fit into a framework which allows their movement to continue. The fear of alienation and compulsion to belong is much stronger than most people imagine. This is the singlemost important reason a conspiracy buff must maintain a healthy sense of objectivity--a skeptic's objectivity, and not just cave in to believe every little thing. If you don't, your need to belong will drive you in all kinds of crazy directions.

Saving Face - I have a sneaking suspicion there are a few people in Phoenix who fit in here. They told some stories about the lights, the silent black triangles, and when they were debunked... whoops.

Personality Traits - Things like superiority and inferiority complexes. A need to be "right", an aversion to being "embarrassed". Nothing wrong with it, it's a fact of life.

My conclusion would be it's one or a combination of all three of the above characteristics that makes a "nut" hang on to a topic long after it's been disproven or debunked. I also suspect the sense of alienation is the strongest of the three. And it would be unfair if I didn't admit that I have suffered from all three of those traits at points in my life.

Hey, bring that light over here.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by moviepitchguy]




posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:17 AM
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You do realize that there were TWO major events surrounding the Phoenix lights, right? One (the mountain range lights) which is questionable, then the DIRECT FLYOVER of a massive V shaped object at low levels, witnessed by dozens of people. The mountain range incident may or may not have been thoroughly debunked, but the flyover has NOT been debunked at all.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by DimensionalDetective]



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:22 AM
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I understand that there are NOW claimed to be two major events surrounding the Phoenix Lights. And I believe that has a lot to do with people who don't want to admit the truth, people who are saving face, or people who have personality traits that won't allow them to accept the truth.

Everything started with the flares, and it rolled downhill from there. The stories got bigger and more grandiose. I'm not trying to insult you personally. It's just what I believe. The people who haven't accepted the Phoenix Lights as debunked are A) Lying (to others or to themselves) or B) Mistaken.

An example--you yourself in the above post called the mountain range lights as "questionable". Does the above-embedded video not convince you without a shadow of a doubt that the lights over the mountain range were indeed military flares, dropped right where the military says they dropped them? You can't even bring yourself to say the mountain range lights had been "disproven" as a UFO or that they had been "debunked". You can't even say that because your own bias prevents you. It's OK, I'm just pointing it out.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by moviepitchguy]



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:25 AM
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This is great...your vision was crushed Bigfoot doesn't exist so nothing else out of this world can? So now you can call anyone else a nut who doesn't jump on the "It's Been Debunked" grandwagon?


Again we are suppose to take the military at thier word and believe the story they came up with after the fact?


Deny Ignorance!!




[edit on 3-3-2008 by ATruGod]



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:28 AM
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So you claim to KNOW what these people did or did not see? That's a pretty bold statement. Calling them "nuts" reeks of typical ridicule spewed out by our MSM when people experience things out of the ordinary, and does not help your point of trying to show an alternative POV. And the people saying they saw the craft flying right over the city did NOT come out after, it came out at the same time. It's just that the lights over the range recieved all of the attention due to so many camera's having captured that.



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:30 AM
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Originally posted by DimensionalDetective
Calling them "nuts" reeks of typical ridicule spewed out by our MSM when people experience things out of the ordinary


You are correct. I apologize for using the word "nut".



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by ATruGod
your vision was crushed Bigfoot doesn't exist


Who said I stopped believing in Bigfoot? I stopped believing in Patterson's film. I still think Bigfoot exists.



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:39 AM
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reply to post by moviepitchguy
 


What if...

**Just ONE ufo/extraterrestrial incident is real?
**Just ONE case of abduction is real?
**Just ONE astronaut claim is real?
**The testimony of just ONE military officer is real?
**The testimony of just ONE police officer is real?




posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by moviepitchguy
So I can say it's a bit frustrating when I run into a fellow "theory" fan and we're getting along great, and then they drop the bomb on me... "We lived in Phoenix on the night of the Phoenix Lights. A huge, silent black triangle flew over our house." Boom. It hits me like a ton of bricks. Why don't you just say you believe in the tooth fairy?


Is it safe to assume this scenario has happened more than once to you? Within your own, personal group of acquaintances? I believe if it were me, that would start to add up to something fishy going on.

You're getting along great with the person....presumably they're friendly and lucid....then you toss them under the bus because they recount the same experience many others have described?

And I don't really see the connection from feeling the Patterson film ( jury still out far as I'm concerned ) may have been faked.....to deciding people who talk about one event, being somehow deluded? What would you say about the people involved in the Rendlesham Forest incident?

By the way....February 28th was National Tooth Fairy Day.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by MrPenny]



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 12:23 PM
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Originally posted by MrPenny
You're getting along great with the person....presumably they're friendly and lucid....then you toss them under the bus because they recount the same experience many others have described?


One, if we were talking about my friends and acquaintances, they wouldn't be "recounting" an experience of anything, they would be telling me story they saw on TV or read on the internet. I don't have any friends who were in Phoenix on the night of the lights. That's partly my problem, if you're in Phoenix on the night of the lights and you saw a silent black triangle over your house, I'm probably not gonna convince you that it didn't happen. My problem is the thousands of people who have no connection to the event whatsoever... they just heard about it, saw a TV show on it, and immediately believed it wholeheartedly to the point that they'll actually get angry with you if you question their belief. That is not a healthy sense of skepticism.


And I don't really see the connection from feeling the Patterson film ( jury still out far as I'm concerned ) may have been faked.....to deciding people who talk about one event, being somehow deluded? What would you say about the people involved in the Rendlesham Forest incident?


You're putting words in my mouth. My post was partly tongue-in-cheek. I haven't called anybody "deluded". In part, I'm describing myself. Did anybody notice I mentioned I still believe in Bigfoot?

I don't know enough details on the Rendlesham Forest incident to formulate a strong opinion.

[edit on 3-3-2008 by moviepitchguy]



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 12:30 PM
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Originally posted by moviepitchguy
My problem is the thousands of people who have no connection to the event whatsoever... they just heard about it, saw a TV show on it, and immediately believed it wholeheartedly to the point that they'll actually get angry with you if you question their belief. That is not a healthy sense of skepticism.


Pretty big assumption 'cause I doubt you talked to "the thousands" and got the same response. Maybe you're a little bit like me? God knows I'm no angel and sometimes my skepticism and questions can be a bit pointed. That's probably worthy of consideration.


You're putting words in my mouth. My post was partly tongue-in-cheek. I haven't called anybody "deluded".


Pardon me....maybe it was just a problem with interpretation....I made the logical leap that people who believe in the tooth fairy may be a bit delusional, with the exception of small children.



posted on Mar, 3 2008 @ 04:10 PM
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reply to post by moviepitchguy
 


I too saw that show about the guy who said he was the one in the bigfoot suit and to show you just how easily influenced I am I believed him. Of course I was disappointed but I figured "Oh well too bad" . Since them I have seen more recent and more scientifically oriented shows on the Patterson film which suggest that guy was looking for his 15 minutes of fame. Better photographic enhancement techniques are available and more precise measurements of the bigfoot's body have been done that really lead one to the conclusion that it could not have been faked especially with the technology available to the people involved. Remember TV producers are looking for ways to fill air time presumably with something different that will catch our attention and get us to watch(just like you starting this thread). I suspect that was the case with that show. It sure worked with you and I, didn't it?



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