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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 12:30 PM by COOL HAND
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 Originally posted by budski
I am on topic - if the US wants to be seen as a force for good, then they should stop doing bad things - and bush just happens to be in charge whilst
a lot of bad things have happened. 
That is just your opinion, not fact.
Who the hell are you to tell me what I can say about bush - it's not rhetoric, it's TRUTH - a concept he doesn't seem to be familiar with.
Say whatever you want about him, that is your right. Just keep it out of topics that don't involve him.
Until then, they should keep their noses out of other peoples business and stop bullying people.
I am still waiting to hear how this is bullying? Have we actually threatened them with direct action? Have we made any demands of them?
I notice they haven't been so keen to posture against china, russia or pakistan about elections.
Why?
Because they hold them when they are supposed to.
Because they have the means to fight back, and bullies only pick on those weaker than themselves.
No, see above.
Send a fleet of warships to sit off the coast of china or russia - see what happens
Nothing, so long as we stay out of their waters. Just like when they send ships off the US Coast. We willl watch them closely, but we won't make a
move towards them until they do something threatening.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 12:37 PM by budski
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reply to post by COOL HAND
LMAO
yeah - china holds elections!
And russia and pakistan are shining beacons of democracy
The reason shrub doesn't say anything is because he's a bully - he only picks on the weak.
Bush is in charge, so he's the one making the decisions, so he's part of the topic and is fair game.
Like I said - if you got a problem with that, tell a mod.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 12:38 PM by ufoorbhunter
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Nothing wrong with the States and that's coming from an Englishman. Thank the lord for the USA. I'd be speaking German or Russian if it wasn't for
the USA. God bless them. I am eternally grateful and know who I'd be batting for if push came to shove.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 12:54 PM by budski
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reply to post by ufoorbhunter
You're right, there's nothing wrong with the states - but hey, we paid them back, plus interest for their part in the war, when incidentally, they
didn't join out of niceness or friendship for us, they joined because they were attacked.
Shrub and his ilk on the other hand, there's plenty wrong with.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:01 PM by COOL HAND
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reply to post by budski
I take it this means you will not be telling us how the US is being a bully to folks in the area?
Pity, I could use the good laugh.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:01 PM by BlueRaja
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Originally posted by budski
reply to post by BlueRaja
What gives ANYONE the right to intervene ANYWHERE unless it is sanctioned and approved by international law.
It's time washington got a grip and realised that they are NOT the arbiter of justice in the world - if they were, they'd have to take a long, long
look at themselves first.
You can try and wriggle all you want, but the fact remains that the US has warships parked off the coast of another sovereign nation in order to
"send a message"
They'll be stealing lunch money next.
Oh wait, they already did...
[edit on 5/3/2008 by budski]
How is being in international waters a situation that the US or anyone for that matter, that would require international permission? The whole point
of international waters is that anyone is entitled to be there. Additionally, you do realize that diplomacy only works if the other side understands
there are consequences(i.e. economic or military). If there are no consequences, then there are no motivations for anyone to ever change behaviors.
It's not bullying- it's just how things are done, how things have always been done, how things always will be done. It's along these lines-
en.wikipedia.org...
You'll notice that countries that have shown themselves to be responsible members of the international community, never have US(or any other
nation's Naval presence) ships off shore.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:07 PM by budski
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reply to post by COOL HAND
Just because you haven't bothered to read it, doesn't mean I haven't stated it.
Try actually reading the thread - I've stated my position on more than one occasion, and I'm not in the habit of repeating myself because of
anothers idleness.
Are you talking about the same kind of laugh I had when you posted about china's elections?
Not to mention russia and pakistan
Go right ahead - a good belly laugh at your post has improved my mood no end.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:13 PM by ufoorbhunter
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Well I'm British and I'm right behind Bush "and his ilk." What's wrong Budski with the US having a very real interest in the Lebanon? Good on
them that they back a welcome outcome in Lebanon. What do you want? An Iranian colony? To attack the US? To attack Israel? Or a few decades down the
line to attack heart of Europe?
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:14 PM by BlueRaja
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reply to post by budski
The difference with Chinese or Russian elections, is that chances are there's not gonna be violence breaking out by numerous terror groups in a
volatile region.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:20 PM by budski
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reply to post by ufoorbhunter
Just for you, I'll explain again - it's none of their business
This kind of act is what CAUSES terrorism.
Casually throwing your weight around causes hate and hate breeds terrorism.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:21 PM by COOL HAND
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Originally posted by budski
Just because you haven't bothered to read it, doesn't mean I haven't stated it.
Try actually reading the thread - I've stated my position on more than one occasion, and I'm not in the habit of repeating myself because of
anothers idleness.
I did read the thread, and I am still waiting to see you prove that there is any bullying going on there by the US Navy.
Where is their list of demands?
What "bullying" actions have they taken?
Are you talking about the same kind of laugh I had when you posted about china's elections?
Not to mention russia and pakistan
Go right ahead - a good belly laugh at your post has improved my mood no end.
So, obviously you were there and saw these elections with your own eyes? Otherwise, how could you comment on them?
[edit on 5/3/08 by COOL HAND]
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:21 PM by budski
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reply to post by BlueRaja
No, the difference with russia is that they can fight back.
Now please show me examples of democratic elections in china.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:29 PM by budski
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reply to post by COOL HAND
I don't think you have read, because I've already stated my position, again.
Your comment about china/russia elections is truly laughable.
wriggle wriggle is what I see.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:35 PM by COOL HAND
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Originally posted by budski
I don't think you have read, because I've already stated my position, again.
I did not ask you for your position, I asked you for specific evidence that we have been threatening them over there. I can't simplify my question
any more than that.
Your comment about china/russia elections is truly laughable.
1. Stop bringing up China and elections. China has been a one party system since Mao.
2. Since you were there for the Russian elections, please tell us what was wrong with them.
wriggle wriggle is what I see.
Takes one to know one?
I did not realize that we would be hurling veiled insults at each other today.
Mod Note: General ATS Discussion Etiquette – Please Review This Link.
[edit on 5-3-2008 by Crakeur]
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:37 PM by Sublime620
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I would have to say that Budski is right.
When we throw our weight around in these countries, there are effects. To top it off, we half-ass it. We don't put all of our weight into, only
enough to get the job done.
If we really want to exert our influence other there, then we need to do it. Full force.
Otherwise, and probably the more realistic idea, we need to stay the heck out of it.
*Edited to add:
If you need more info on our actions in the middle east and the responses it gets, look up OBL's real stated reasons for attacking the United
States.
I'll give you a clue:
It has nothing to do with our freedom.
[edit on 5-3-2008 by Sublime620]
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:44 PM by budski
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reply to post by COOL HAND
Ok, two things:
I am not a moron and I am highly insulted by you calling me one.
Kindly mind your manners.
You brought up china and elections - and what's more I'll mention them as much as I like
And now, this just gets better:
 Lebanon's ex-lawmaker, Nasser Qandil, vows retaliation against the US over an alleged plot to kill opposition figure Michel Aoun.
Addressing a news conference at his Beirut office on Wednesday, Qandil said that Washington, Riyadh, Progressive Socialist Party leader Walid Jumblatt
and Lebanese Forces leader Samir Geagea are plotting to assassinate Aoun.
He revealed that they planned to kill Aoun using Tomahawk missiles that would target the Rabiyeh district where Aoun residence is located.
There would be simultaneous explosions of booby trapped cars to imply that a suicide attack has targeted the FPM leader, he said.
Qandil warned the Americans against "going ahead with this crazy plan, because the price would be an open war on US interests, 'not just in Lebanon
but throughout the Arab world'.
He charged that Geagea has left for the United States to make arrangements for the implementation of the plot.
Yep, shrub sure loves democracy...
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 01:56 PM by COOL HAND
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Originally posted by budski
I am not a moron and I am highly insulted by you calling me one.
Kindly mind your manners.
I said like a moron, not that you were a moron. There is a difference.
You brought up china and elections - and what's more I'll mention them as much as I like
You brought up China first as part of your spiel:
I notice they haven't been so keen to posture against china, russia or pakistan about elections.
I did not think that if I made my follow on statement, that I would have to clearly remove China from the list since they do not hold elections.
Now I wish I would have, perhaps then I would not have confused you?
And now, this just gets better:
snip...useless story deleted. Feel free to read it youself above.
Wait, this guy is making claims with no evidence and you are jumping on his bandwagon?
And you wonder how I can possibly think that you look like a moron?
[edit on 5/3/08 by COOL HAND]
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 02:04 PM by budski
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reply to post by COOL HAND
Who's jumping on a bandwagon?
I just posted what he said.
But of course, his statement couldn't possibly have any merit, simply because he doesn't fall into line with your thinking.
The inference was there about you calling me a moron - once again, I'll thank you to mind your manners.
Courtesy and civility are required under the T&C.
Or is anyone who opposes your view of shrub as a knight in shining armour a target for insults.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 02:16 PM by BlueRaja
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reply to post by budski
Terrorism results because of ideology, not because of foreign policy. That's a cop out to say if we just minded our own business, and didn't defend
our interests, there would be no terrorism. I'd love to see some stats on how being a doormat, has been effective with regards to foreign policy.
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reply posted on 5-3-2008 @ 02:19 PM by Sublime620
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reply to post by BlueRaja
Unless they were doing it to us. In which case, we'd be freedom fighters. Perspective is a funny thing, eh?
And there is a difference between being a doormat and not pressing your interests on others.
[edit on 5-3-2008 by Sublime620]
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