Questions for masons

1)How long do you have to be one to be able to speak on behalf of them?

2)Do any rituals involve sexual activity such as the movie ‘Eyes wide shut’

3)Does the movie ‘Eyes wide shut’ have any accurate legitimacy to it?

4)How can I join a Masonic lodge?

5)What ties does the Bavarian Illuminati have with Freemasonry?

6)Why in the beginning of the Freemason society did it have to be secret?

7)What has kept it from being secret now?

8)Do any rituals involve such things that may disturb children?

9)What may some routine rituals involve?

10)What happens when someone reaches 33? More authority etc….

11)Does someone have to believe in god to be a mason – to partake in Masonic activities?

For anyone else with questions for Masons, ask away….

Originally posted by andre18
1)How long do you have to be one to be able to speak on behalf of them?

Only the Grand Lodge can speak in behalf of the entire fraternity under its own jurisdiction, and then, only with the approval of the membership. Any individual Mason may offer his own opinions, but these are not binding upon other Masons.

2)Do any rituals involve sexual activity such as the movie ‘Eyes wide shut’

No.

3)Does the movie ‘Eyes wide shut’ have any accurate legitimacy to it?

Not in regards to Freemasonry. As to other societies, I have no idea, but have never heard of them. Even organizations based around sexuality, such as O.T.O., don't generally perform group sex rituals, but do so privately.

4)How can I join a Masonic lodge?

By requesting admission. This can be done in several ways. If you know a Mason, the easiest thing is just to ask him to sponsor you. If not, you can call or email your local Lodge or Grand Lodge, let them know you're interested in joining, and they'll have someone on the membership committee in your area contact you.

5)What ties does the Bavarian Illuminati have with Freemasonry?

The leaders of the Bavarian Illuminati became Masons in hopes of recruiting membership from Masonic Lodges. Eventually, when the Illuminati established its own degree system, it made the first three degrees of Masonry the 5th, 6th, and 7th degrees of the Illuminati. This was irregular because the Illuminati did not have a Masonic charter, and so had no authority to confer those degrees. The Illuminati thus became a clandestine (illegitimate) Rite.

6)Why in the beginning of the Freemason society did it have to be secret?

The history is extremely complex. Originally it was the English stonemasons guild in the middle ages. Like the other guilds during feudalism, it kept on monopoly on its own craft, and therefore held its own trade secrets. These secrets became public after the science of architecture began to be taught in universities, but other traditional secrets, such as passwords and handshakes, remained.

Also, the fraternity had to go underground in many places for a time due to perecution from the established governments/churches.

7)What has kept it from being secret now?

There is no longer any need for the organization to be secret in a free society. Indeed, here in the USA, the fraternity has never been a secret organization.

8)Do any rituals involve such things that may disturb children?

No, but children would not be able to understand the complex symbolism involved. As far as that goes, many adults have trouble understanding it too.

9)What may some routine rituals involve?

The fraternity's rituals are mostly "degrees", where a new member is being initiated. Although they slightly vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction, they can be described in general as being composed of three sections. In the first section, the candidate is publicly vouched for and takes an obligation relating to the degree. In the second section, an allegorical drama, similar to a play, is reinacted in which the candidate plays a part. In the third section, a lecture is given that explains the ceremonies and the symbols shown to the candidate.

10)What happens when someone reaches 33? More authority etc….

The 33° is an honorary degree in the Scottish Rite of Masonry. It does not give the recipient any authority, but recognizes him to honor outstanding service to the Scottish Rite, to Masonry in general, or to the community. The 33° makes the recipient an honorary member of the Supreme Council (the governing administrative body of the Scottish Rite of Masonry).

11)Does someone have to believe in god to be a mason – to partake in Masonic activities?

Yes. Masonry is theistic in its teachings, and recognizes the existence of a Supreme Being. However, Freemasonry is non-sectarian and non-denominational.

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Originally posted by andre18
2)Do any rituals involve sexual activity such as the movie ‘Eyes wide shut’

No.

Heh, he probably doesn't wanna join anymore now anyway.

[edit on 3/3/08 by an3rkist]

Any individual Mason may offer his own opinions, but these are not binding upon other Masons.

So for the various masons on ATS, what you say can be said on behalf of all masons?

No.

DAMN..........

but do so privately.

How do I Join OTO....?

Yes. Masonry is theistic in its teachings, and recognizes the existence of a Supreme Being. However, Freemasonry is non-sectarian and non-denominational.

But what people who have different views of god - some might see god as just energy or a sky daddy and so on. So how do these teachings even work with the problem of beliefs....?

And also....could you at all tell me what level you are?



[edit on 4-3-2008 by andre18]

Ya know, this is a great thread and I'm glad andre18 has reached out to the Masonic crowd with some great questions with (I hope) sincerity. I keep saying that real questions garner real answers when it comes to all you Masons here at ATS and this thread seems to be the beginnings of my evidence to that belief. Bravo!

Carry on!

Cuhail

Originally posted by andre18
So for the various masons on ATS, what you say can be said on behalf of all masons?

Only as much as what you say can be said on behalf of all Australians.

But what people who have different views of god - some might see god as just energy or a sky daddy and so on. So how do these teachings even work with the problem of beliefs....?

They don't need to. You believe something? Great. It's up to you to reconcile that belief with Masonic teachings. Masonry gives you the tools to make you a better man. Using the tools is still a personal exercise that requires work and diligence. These tools "will not interfere with your duty to God, your country, your neighbor or yourself."

And also....could you at all tell me what level you are?

Master Mason, 32° Scottish Rite Mason (Southern Jurisdiction), Knight of St. Andrew

They don't need to. You believe something? Great. It's up to you to reconcile that belief with Masonic teachings. Masonry gives you the tools to make you a better man. Using the tools is still a personal exercise that requires work and diligence.

So a Muslim and a Christian could be a mason without the two having any problems with their beliefs? It’s just that seeing how it’s to do with god I’m a little confused.

Master Mason, 32° Scottish Rite Mason (Southern Jurisdiction), Knight of St. Andrew

How long did it take you to get to 32?

A friend of mine recently told me they were once a mason and for 6 years, how many levels could they have possibly have reached in that time?



[edit on 4-3-2008 by andre18]

Originally posted by andre18
So a Muslim and a Christian could be a mason without the two having any problems with their beliefs?

I would hope so! We're all equal, aren't we? I sit in lodge with Jews, Muslims, Christians, gays, blacks, Hindi, you name it. Why would I presume to be any better than any of them? Such thoughts are mere arrogance. Religion is a forbidden subject of discussion within the lodge, so there's no place for difference of opinion or belief to even arise.

It’s just that seeing how it’s to do with god I’m a little confused.

The prayer during the initiation of a new Masonic candidate might read as follows:

Vouchsafe Thine aid, Almighty Father of the Universe, to this our present convention; and grant that this candidate for Masonry may dedicate and devote his life to Thy service, and become a true and faithful brother among us. Endue him with a compentency of Thy divine wisdom that by the secrets of our art he may better be enabled to display the beauties of godliness to the honor of Thy Holy Name. Amen.

Is there anything in that which would go against YOUR beliefs? I mean, most faiths want to honor their god by being true and faithful, just and good.

How long did it take you to get to 32?

Went from 3 to 32 in one (very long) day. Usually it's 1 to 3 days depending on how they've got it set up. The first 3 degrees? Maybe 5 months for me. Some do it quicker. Some spend a year on each. It takes at least 8 years of service to go from 32° to 33°. I know some 33° Mason who didn't attain that degree for more than 16 years, and as the 33 is an honor given to a very limited number of people each year, most 32s will never get there.

[edit on 3/4/2008 by JoshNorton]

I would hope so! We're all equal, aren't we? I sit in lodge with Jews, Muslims, Christians, gays, blacks, Hindi, you name it. Why would I presume to be any better than any of them? Such thoughts are mere arrogance. Religion is a forbidden subject of discussion within the lodge, so there's no place for difference of opinion or belief to even arise.

So you could say masonry is a way of bringing people’s beliefs in god together – a unity of understanding of some sort?

Is there anything in that which would go against YOUR beliefs?

Not really, I mean, I’m fairly open minded I believe in aliens and a creator of the universe but just not a god figure though

What I don’t really understand is the understanding of god through masonry – the perception of what masons think god is……for example even if you’re theistic you still may not agree with another theist on the foundations and principles of what god is and so when you’re ‘educated’ through the teachings are you learning what one someone else is teaching you about god? I guess there has to be some kind of basis of what you’re being taught about god – some kind of agreement of what you all belief god is…

Originally posted by andre18
So you could say masonry is a way of bringing people’s beliefs in god together – a unity of understanding of some sort?

No, there is no attempt to reconcile any religions to each other. Each mason is encouraged to live his life according to his own belief, and to respect the right of others to live their lives according to their beliefs.

What I don’t really understand is the understanding of god through masonry – the perception of what masons think god is……

Masonry makes no attempt to explain the concept or nature of God. Masonry does not teach anything about God. Masonry simply encourages masons to explore their own understanding of God.

[edit on 4/3/2008 by Saurus]

Originally posted by andre18

So for the various masons on ATS, what you say can be said on behalf of all masons?

I can only speak for myself as a Masonic researcher. As for Masonic law and jurisprudence, any educated Mason could answer those questions if he is familiar with the Constitution and Code of his Grand Lodge, but as for symbolic interpretation, each Mason can speak only for himself.

How do I Join OTO....?

In much the same way as Masonry, i.e., by petitioning an OTO Lodge and being initiated. There are some differences: OTO does not technically require belief in a Supreme Being, although they expect all candidates to be Thelemites, students of the work of Aleister Crowley. Also, they admit women.

But what people who have different views of god - some might see god as just energy or a sky daddy and so on. So how do these teachings even work with the problem of beliefs....?

You will find many different views of God among Masons. Many if not most Masons believe in a traditional personal God, usually the God of Judeo-Christianity. As a Kabalist, I do not believe in God in that manner, but see him as the transcendent force of life and love throughout the whole universe, of which sentient beings are expressions and manifestations.

And also....could you at all tell me what level you are?

I am a Master Mason, Past Master of my Lodge, Past High Priest of my Chapter of Royal Arch Masons, Past Thrice Illustrious Master of my Council of Cryptic Masons, and Past Eminent Commander of my Commandery of Knights Templar. In the Scottish Rite, I am a 32° Knight Commander of the Court of Honour, and belong to various side degrees such as Allied Masonic Degrees, Grand College of Rites, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests, etc.

reply to post by andre18

So a Muslim and a Christian could be a mason without the two having any problems with their beliefs? It’s just that seeing how it’s to do with god I’m a little confused.

Religion is banned as a form of discussion .. quite honestly, no one should ever know what your religion is unless you somehow show or tell someone.. this is how religious divides are prevented. Not all together, there are and always will be bigots in the world who suppress the right to free thought.. it is not unheard of for this to happen in Masonry, but for the large part of Masonry tolerance is key.

How long did it take you to get to 32?

Took me 2 very long days... very long.

But here is the thing.. not many 32nd Masons have 32 degrees.... me for instance, I do not have every Scottish Rite degree, but I am a 32nd.

When you join, you get a little book, called a passport (at least in the North) and as you go through (its theater style) each degree, that degree is marked off in your passport.

When you start you will get (someone correct my if im wrong) the 4º, 9º, 14º, 30º, 31º, 32º and what ever one they happen to put on along with those.. but those (again its been a while) are the "mandatory) ones to get the 32º

You then go back to what is called Reunions and watch more degrees, and get them marked off.. eventually your passport is completed and I am not sure what they do after that honestly.. probably give you a pat on the back or maybe a special prize lol.. some kind of recognition is given.

What I don’t really understand is the understanding of god through masonry – the perception of what masons think god is

This is where people get the idea that Masonry is a religion.. if we don't follow a dogmatic religions teachings like Christianity or Islam, we must have our own God..

In reality we speak of a universal God.. sort of like.. God can take any form to any individual.. and each persons perception is different because that is their form of God..

Its the same God.. because there can be only one almighty one.. but he comes in many forms..

So a Christian, a jew, a Muslim, and even Pagans and people of other religions (myself included) can all speak of one God, the same as everyone elses, yet being completely different.

Its.. generic

No one should ever tell you what God is, who he or she is, how you should pray, how you should believe, and what you should put faith into... only you your self can do such a thing.

Religion is banned as a form of discussion .. quite honestly, no one should ever know what your religion is unless you somehow show or tell someone.. this is how religious divides are prevented. Not all together, there are and always will be bigots in the world who suppress the right to free thought.. it is not unheard of for this to happen in Masonry, but for the large part of Masonry tolerance is key.

I'm starting to like this mason thing.....not the god thing but tolerance that's understood seems to be one of the main reasons it's still going, for example - in most religions tolerance is a very divided subject.....Christians against Catholics - Soonis against Shiites etc.....

In reality we speak of a universal God.. sort of like.. God can take any form to any individual.. and each persons perception is different because that is their form of God..

It sounds like masonry is a way to a sort of unity - of course letting people possess their own beliefs, but bringing people together under the concept of god.

Originally posted by andre18
It sounds like masonry is a way to a sort of unity - of course letting people possess their own beliefs, but bringing people together under the concept of god.

Indeed, you will often find the motto "The Brotherhood of Man under the Fatherhood of God" or some variation thereof, used in a Masonic context.

The great thing about sitting in Lodge is actually realizing that not a man in the room questions my religious dogma. I am an equal among equals. I am taught the lessons of tolerance and open mindedness and the brotherhood of man under the fatherhood of God, just as JoshNorton stated. I was never quizzed or questioned about my belief in a Supreme Being beyond the initial inquiry, in whom I put my trust?

Beyond that I have been instructed by the use of allegory and the illustrative use of the tools of operative masons' in the foundations of civil and virtuous behavior expect of educated and mature men. We deny no man the opportunity to participate if he can show himself to honest and upright. It is a very pleasant feeling to be accepted by other men of similar beliefs without the strife that accompanies competing cosmic and dogmatic views.

I have been encouraged from the start to seek more knowledge and have been constantly encouraged to question my fellow brethren about any and all manner of interests in regards to expanding my knowledge of Masonic subjects. The greatest part of the journey is the practice of the principals in my daily life. I am slowly, and I mean slowly, beginning to be more patient, tolerant and understanding of my fellow man. I have not always been a very tolerant or understanding individual in the past. The practice of these principals allows me to be more flexible with people, but still requires me to be prudent in how I react to them or interact with them. I am slowly becoming a more mature person because of my exposure to these principals.

I hope that was too long-winded of an explanation.

I had some pretty dreadful experience in one out of wack lodge. I have been called a hoax here many a time.
Masonry is a beautiful thing in its teachings. I see problems with the rites however, I dont think they like Jews!

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF

I see problems with the rites however, I dont think they like Jews!

Really? Of the 11 founders of the Scottish Rite, 5 of them were Jews.

1. Emanuel de La Motta, 33°, First Treasurer of the Supreme Council
2. Abraham Alexander, 33°, First Secretary of the Supreme Council
3. Israel de Lieben, 33°
4. Dr. Issac Auld, 33°
5. Moses C. Levy, 33°

Brother Auld became the third Sovereign Grand Commander.

I'm starting to like this mason thing.....not the god thing but tolerance that's understood seems to be one of the main reasons it's still going, for example - in most religions tolerance is a very divided subject.....Christians against Catholics - Soonis against Shiites etc.....

No one knows who, what, where, when or Why Masonry was founded.. it is shrouded in deep mystery..

The likely hood is it sprang from the pre-enlightenment era in the 1600's.. as a city guild.

The way guilds worked in this era, you had a guild for every industry, and in the guild there where ranks.. the ranks excluded some, prefered others. If you where in the industry, say Masonry, and you could not be on an equal level, you where essentially forced to remain at the bottom of society.

The devides (I use Ireland as I study Irish history, not English) where largely religiously based.. that is, Protastants could reach the top of the social structure.. while Catholics where given the lowest jobs, if they could even get into the guilds.

In fact, only a Freeman, could freely walk the city and engage in commerce with whomever he wanted. A Freeman in this era, could only be a Protastant man, sometimes wealthy woman, and almost always from a guild.

Freemasonry however took down social and religious divides.. Protestants and Catholics could engage in the same business with each other on an open plane.. no one had a higher rank then any one else, and essentially because they could all do business with eachother across other guilds.. they where self declared Freemen --- Freemasons (Freedom of the City) which may be where the name originates.

This of course was outragious, they had to meet in semi-secrecy, had to enect secret methods of communication to prevent infiltrators who meant them harm.

Every religion declared them an enemy, because every religion was involved with everyother, disregarding religious ranks (Protastants over Catholics, while many times it was brothers of the same family but different faiths to assist eachother economically through the barriers around them).. Obviously this is where all the conspiracies generated.. they must be up to something, and it must be against the various churches..

In reality, the enlightenment age came about because of Masonic ideas, and various groups like them..

Right down to the Constitution, which is full of Enlightenment ideology.. equality, freedom of the citizens, government by the people for the people, the bringing down of Monarchy's ... these where taboo ideas in their day.. and to think Masonry used said ideas way back in the 1600's .. it is no wonder they where everyones enemy...

Originally posted by HDFACTORYCERTIF
I had some pretty dreadful experience in one out of wack lodge. I have been called a hoax here many a time.
Masonry is a beautiful thing in its teachings. I see problems with the rites however, I dont think they like Jews!

This post made me think perhaps it should be mentioned to the OP, and to everyone, that different factions of Freemasonry exist, and even within said factions different lodges may do things differently. I'm obviously not a Mason, but I think that Masons would agree with me. I know this based on my experience with Masons in the Army. The Masons that I knew in the Army were the main reason that I had originally ignored all the Masons with their claims that Masonry had all of these benign ideologies. (Especially when people told me that Freemasonry had a large focus on esoteric knowledge.)

To me, the Masons that I knew, (whom I knew very well as I went to war with them and lived with them for a year), were not only men who cared not about a pursuit in knowledge or wisdom, but also had pretty questionable morals. It seemed that they were Masons because it was "the thing to do" in the Army, as they admitted to me that it helped them progress in the rank structure in the military. I also assume, (keyword is "assume"), that they considered it nothing more than a fraternity, a bunch of guys getting together to drink and talk and such.

What I'm saying, is that you probably can't judge the whole of Freemasonry on one lodge, or even one subsidiary of Masonry. But then again, I am only speaking from observation, and I couldn't tell you for certain if this is true.

The majority of Masons on the books don't care about Masonry, about wisdom or any of that.. they don't care about anything except a fancy ring on their finger and the ability to tell people they are Masons.

IMO, they are not.

We call them Ring Masons.

I know people in the military that are Masons, some of which are very strict, and even hold lodges while over seas. Others who think its a joke, and joined for the sake of joining, or because a friend did but in reality don't care.

HD by the way, is not a Mason.. he was outed as a hoax by Masons who asked him a simple question any Mason would know.. and he was no where near close.. not saying there are not corrupt lodges and corrupt Masons .. just that his story just happens to be a hoax.