Masonic Practice and Magic(k)

Is there any truth to the "Goat race" rumour? Apparently at some lodges the Masons will get modified and take to goat back to race one another in a bizarre relay style contest. I can't remember where I heard this now... I think it was from a Mason himself, but he was probably joking. I hope he wasn't, though. I'd respect Masons even more if they were actually that disturbed.

Has anyone ever thought of fitting the animals with motorbike wheels and throttle ears?

Originally posted by Animal


Am I right though in thinking you have no proof of where the rituals came from and no proof of who made them?

That's pretty much the case. The fraternity was practicing a form of initiation in the middle ages, although nothing anywhere near as elaborate as it is today. It pretty much consisted of an oath and the formal presentation of working tools.

The modern ritual's origin is really anybody's guess. Some point toward Elias Ashmole. Ashmole was not only a scholar of antiquities, but also a Rosicrucian and alchemist. If we could pinpoint an Ashmole connection to ritual composition, that would be a glorious day...but so far, we can't. We know that he was one of the first non-stonemasons to join a Masonic Lodge, but that's about it. The only record he left behind concerning Freemasonry was that he had been initiated, and that he had been summoned to a meeting many years later.

Desaguliers also could have authored the ritual. There is a possibility of Rosicrucian learning with him as well, although not so blatant as Ashmole.

Some have suggested that the Rev. James Anderson may have composed the Master Mason ceremony. This is possible, but pure speculation.

Still others have suggested that the Master Mason ceremony was composed by English Jacobins. According to this theory, the Grand Master Hiram represented Prince Charles Edward Stuart, and the ceremony symbolically taught that he should be restored to the British throne.

Even Pike, at least partially, believed this last theory, but to me it seems contrived. The Masonic legend of Hiram seems to me to be based on that of Christian Rosenkreutz, as detailed in the Fama Fraternitatis of the Rosicrucians.

Originally posted by Animal
Am I right though in thinking you have no proof of where the rituals came from and no proof of who made them? I have been under the impression that they are in some way disconnected from historical record.

*shrug* The same could be said of the ritual cannibalism some Christians perform.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Masonic Light, thanks for your reply, really fascinating stuff. I can tell you know your masonic history quite well. Could you please point me in the direction of some good books on the history and speculative lore of the Free Masons? I would love to do some research of my own!

Have a great day friend, Animal

reply to post by Cadbury


Most fraternal organizations (not only Masons, but also Elk, Oddfellows, etc.) have a longstanding joke that, during initiation, one is required to ride a goat. This story seems to have no other purpose than to terrify candidates and bemuse members.

You may be interested in this little essay, called The Lodge Goat.

reply to post by Animal


Probably the best starter book is "The Builders" by Joseph Fort Newton. It's still in print, and can be ordered from many stores online.

If, however, you'd prefer, the whole book can be read for free online here

Originally posted by JoshNorton

*shrug* The same could be said of the ritual cannibalism some Christians perform.

Just to be clear I also refuse to participate in above mentioned ritual. Actually I refuse to participate in ANY blood-drinker cult.

[edit on 10-6-2008 by Animal]

Originally posted by Animal
Just to be clear I also refuse to participate in above mentioned ritual. Actually I refuse to participate in ANY blood-drinker cult.

So what qualifies as ritual that you WOULD perform? I mean, honestly, can you name one ritual that you can definitively cite the origin of, unless you created it yourself?

Originally posted by Masonic Light

Most fraternal organizations (not only Masons, but also Elk, Oddfellows, etc.) have a longstanding joke that, during initiation, one is required to ride a goat. This story seems to have no other purpose than to terrify candidates and bemuse members.

Thank you for your information, Masonic There. So there are no actual races? It would seem that I have been tricked by a Mason of abnormal humour.

You may be interested in this little essay, called The Lodge Goat.

I just can't stop laughing. You people are twisted! I love it.

i have replied to this thread and I can't find my responses...What gives
I find this an interesting topic anyone care to elaborate on my missing posts?

EDIT: i see that my linked avatar is missing hence i could not find myself...

the goat riding- i heard that too, and the actually blood letting they said i would need to show some to pass through the 1st


[edit on 10-6-2008 by fiorano]

G.A.O.T.U. /goat : a simple misplay of words that turned into a common Joke. In the past there were even a few companies that built goats that could be riden. I think you can read about them on the Pheinox Masonry web Page. I sure some of the guys here can direct you to better sources.

reply to post by Masonic Light


Thanks for the link Masonic, I will begin my reading tonight. I really look forward to it too, this topic really fascinates me!

reply to post by Animal


I have done a fair amount of study and I can say only the highly "Enlightned Freemasons" have any idea about Solomon's Temple and Merlin..... Might be worth a study...Here is a link Arthur Manly P Hall
www.manlyphall.org...

I think the Mason's Symbol looks like a swing and there are two boys (at bottom) sitting on the swing. Isn't that what it is? Does anybody know? It looks exactly like the same scenes on the Penny, as if they were the same hidden message. I noticed it first in Abe Lincoln's Head,( In his hair) then at several different angles too.Some scenes differ in ways. The boys are swinging so high,that they look scared. To find these scenes, You have to catch the light to hit the correct angle that reveals a scene. I had the penny upside down,and tilted it towards the right side until some raised images appear at the same time. Then I tilted it back and forth repeatedly,( like a swing)until Penny was almost flat,which helped me to find other scenes like it I used a loupe or magnifying glass to see details. After you find one scene, keep turning penny slightly to see other scenes like it,that duplicate A swing and children/boys on it.

Originally posted by sierragoose
I think the Mason's Symbol looks like a swing and there are two boys (at bottom) sitting on the swing. Isn't that what it is?

No.

The Masonic symbol is a compass superimposed over a square of 90 degrees. In the United States and Canada, the letter G is included in the center.

reply to post by Animal


my pursuit of Majick and my practice thereof revolves around not of masonic ritual but through my association of masonry being around other masons who study the occult and i began my life search for my own light and am a Thelemite. along with being a 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason i am a Probabtioner in the A.'.A.'. and a Zelator in the Thelemic.'.Order.'.of the.',.Golden.'.Dawn which are both Thelemic Majickal Orders. i thought of joining the O.T.O but with the way their politics are here in America and the fact that in Britain one can go from Minerval to Master Magician in a year or just a little longer yet in America it takes 4 or 5 years and for that matter hardly anyone is being allowed in the A.'.A.'. because the stanmdards are so high i count myself lucky to be a probationer. any ways i hope that gives you one point of veiw answer to your question.

originally posted by: Animal
To the Mason's on this board I have a question. Do you consider Masonic Rituals to be related to, or of, a magical quality? Do you see Masonic practices as magical ritual?

I have been very active as a Mason in past years. Including officer positions in all three;

Blue Lodge #140
R.A.M #47
Commandery #22

So as a rule did not generally interact on Masonic topics here.
However, this subject material does interest me.

Of all the ritual work we do, and mind you all lodge work is "speculative" Masonry, versus "operative".
Where the most operative things Mason do today is community events like fish fries and charity etc.

The lower degrees have their moments when yes, done with an experienced team, can seem almost magical.
But, none of it is literal magic ritual. Its ritual is akin to a play on a stage. Done same way each time, fraternally the same since George Washington. Knowing that, and sharing the experience for many is magic to them.

However, of all the rituals of each chapter it was Commandery that felt the most energetic, for me and others.
A friend of mine and I both have discussed the feeling. It is perhaps the closest thing to magic one could find in this Fraternal Brotherhood. Because that same energetic feeling can be felt each time we do the Commandery ritual.

Maybe for some that isnt magical, others it could be.
For me, and others who feel that energetic charge it is definately something not found just any where.

I wanted to share that experience, especially since it was reoccuring and can be replicated.

originally posted by: ADVISOR

However, of all the rituals of each chapter it was Commandery that felt the most energetic, for me and others.
A friend of mine and I both have discussed the feeling. It is perhaps the closest thing to magic one could find in this Fraternal Brotherhood. Because that same energetic feeling can be felt each time we do the Commandery ritual.

Maybe for some that isnt magical, others it could be.
For me, and others who feel that energetic charge it is definately something not found just any where.

I wanted to share that experience, especially since it was reoccuring and can be replicated.

I love this post! I was starting to think I was the only one who picked it up!

Without a doubt, the Knights Templar ritual does have a Magickal aspect to it - there is that section of the working, involving a lighted taper, amongst other things (is it the same section for you?), as well as one or two other moments (a particular obligation springs to mind), where the energy in the room becomes almost electric and you can feel a change in your mindset/emotions/presence. I agree with you that that feeling is not felt everywhere in the rituals. For me, I usually sense it strongly in Commandery and also, every now and then (but much more weakly), at a certain moment in the Third Degree of Craft.

It's also good to know it is replicated even across constitutions (I'm in the English Constitution). It does make the KT special.

a reply to: Saurus

Yes, of course it was. I've felt it then, the most often, as a charge building up and moving towards the top of triangle then back down finally in full effect.

I can confirm this because it was my role to pass the flame, a key moment in the energy transfer.

I have stood at both the base and second to top of triangle, feeling the energy will vary depending on location and sensitivity.

This is really something, which should be researched with measuring that energetic feeling, in mind.
Some kind of instrument like ghost hunters use or something/s, might be able to detect and or read the moment its felt.

Then it can be concluded as really physical or meta physical, perhaps.

a reply to: ADVISOR

Two Pilgrims living on different continents, who have never spoken to each other before, identify the exact same feeling at the exact same moment of a ritual, which neither of us have ever discussed before - that's pretty conclusive, if you ask me.