Of course sourcery is perfectly acceptable when sanctioned by your imaginary friend.

www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Leviticus%2014:33-57&version=9;

49And he shall take to cleanse the house two birds, and cedar wood, and scarlet, and hyssop:

50And he shall kill the one of the birds in an earthen vessel over running water:

51And he shall take the cedar wood, and the hyssop, and the scarlet, and the living bird, and dip them in the blood of the slain bird, and in the running water, and sprinkle the house seven times:

52And he shall cleanse the house with the blood of the bird, and with the running water, and with the living bird, and with the cedar wood, and with the hyssop, and with the scarlet:

53But he shall let go the living bird out of the city into the open fields, and make an atonement for the house: and it shall be clean.

Keep in mind you should not attempt such "powerful" magic unless your house has leprosy.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Lilitu]

Originally posted by Siren

I totally disagree. Those that want to continue with their sorcery, pretend ignorance of every posted truth and refuse to respond to it with any coherent utterance.

Who said I was a sorcerer?

Originally posted by dAlen
Anyway, I only see that you quoted the KJ not the NIV. -
Unless you were referring to my post. I only paraphrase...maybe Im a walking NIV!

I know. I apologize for not quoting the NIV as well, I was sooooo tired last night and almost didn't even bother responding after spending so long looking for that verse! lol I do some paraphrasing myself from time to time because I might be a walking KJV (needless to say, no problem) It was really no big deal at all, it just threw me when I could not find the words you were quoting from Paul in my bible.

Essentially the words are interchangeable as in a Thesaurus, and it carries the meaning equally in both quotes.

That may be correct, but look at what Paul is talking about in the entire context. I think the whole thing begins in chapter 6. I took it as he was talking about eating certain things that one might consider as offered up to idols or certain foods not considered lawful to eat, such as pork. Or perhaps he was talking in reference to days that one might hold more important than another. For example; if my Jewish friend were to come to my home for dinner, I wouldn't serve pork because it certainly would offend him/her, and on the other hand, if I were Jewish and someone served me pork, I'd eat it all to the glory of God as I wouldn't want to offend that way either. But I never would have thought that Paul was hinting that drugs are lawful but not expedient, never.

Words are too, like a tool, they are a means to an end. Well, even more...they are pointers. They point beyond themselves.

True enough. But I also firmly believe that even when a word or meaning isn't necessarily understood in the bible, The Holy Spirit can help you/me to understand the meaning...that make sense? Hence the reason there are too many to count interpretations of the bible, especially the little book of Revelation. I don't think language is any kind of barrier for anyone when it comes to understanding Yahshua and the Holy Word. So yes, language might be a little bit of a barrier for you and I, but not for He and I or you and Him. You don't have to be smart or even speak several languages to know Him and no one needs a degree or long study in theology to be revealed His Word of truth. This isn't my opinion, it's a fact clearly found in the bible.

Two people can read the same words and take away a different meaning.

Absolutely or two people may see, visually things differently too. I think that's great though, we aren't drones or clones and weren't created as such, thank goodness. I enjoy being diverse from my fellow man. But love being one in Messiah with my fellow brothers

More to come.....running out of characters.

I don't have time to read this whole thread. But in case no one else has brought it up. I think sorcery and witchcraft are terms that most accurately describe modern science. Science does advocate allot of self control by drugs. It is also manipulating the physical world with knowledge. Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth. Materialist science has no interest of following the evidence to ultimate truth. They just want to learn to control the physical world. Ex. 7:11 Pharaoh, also called
the wise men, the sorcerers and magicians of Egypt. They also did in like manner with their enchantments."

and the rest....for dAlen

To make things worse, go cross culture. I have lived in Hungary (In a city that is in the middle of nowhere) for some years now. No native English speakers, etc.

That's funny that you assume I haven't been cross culture! I could surprise you. I think english is by far one of the most difficult languages because of the various definitions and meanings of this word or that word.
I also live in a city in the middle of nowhere, I love it, don't you?

Language is funny, as even when interpreted correctly (and this almost always means not using word for word language in many examples) the full concept or feeling is not completely there. It gets lost.

That's why it's great that there are so many other ways to communicate. Unfortunately, we are limited in cyber world.

Infact when you watch movies that are professionally translated, the best movies often replace the funny statements of the movie with something totally different. Because it just did not translate well. What is funny, how it is said, is lost in translation...literally. So they have to totally use something altogether different.

What's worse is when the name of our Saviour get's lost in mistranslation. What's greater though is that not even the gates of hades can prevent the church from forming, in other words what was lost can be found if we care enough to seek it

Many people dont see this, especially Americans who have not been immersed 100% in a culture. (Trust me I spent a couple of years in europe 10 years ago, and was working with an international group...and that is not a way to get into a culture.)

That's strange, I thought Americans are drowning in culture. There is so much mixed culture in America, it can be difficult to keep ones head above the massive abyss of daunting culture shock each day.

Again, lets not go as far as the example I gave. Lets look at relationships we have with people who we know. We are often misunderstood even using our own language. One has to be 'present'/aware to feel what that person is trying to say. (why are there so many arguments...its because of a lack of understanding, despite the language being use.)

AGREED. Shoot, I even argue with myself sometimes. If we truly are sensitive to other's, there NEVER should be any lack of understanding really, and if there is, we should catch it right away and corrct it before it really get's confusing. Sometimes, lack of understanding is simply lack of paying attention to either what is being said or what is being heard. God gave us ears to hear, but we don't use them half the time as we should.

I have to admit, I was not clear on what your post was actually saying, so my response was based on what I thought you were saying...which was that the versions arent saying the same thing???

Yes you were, you just didn't think you were And yes, I was saying that the two versions ARE different. But that's fine, provided the ONE meaning doesn't get lost or misinterpreted. I actually have about 10 different versions of the bible, I'm just very much partial to the KJV.

Anyway...

Peace

dAlen

p.s. I wanted to add...I only paraphrase and give a reference of who said what, so that people can do what you did...go search for themselves.

And Shalom unto you as well. Blessings too! Nice conversing with ya!

.......now back to your regularly scheduled conspiracy

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Elisha4Yah]

Originally posted by Howie47
I don't have time to read this whole thread. But in case no one else has brought it up. I think sorcery and witchcraft are terms that most accurately describe modern science. Science does advocate allot of self control by drugs. It is also manipulating the physical world with knowledge. Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth. Materialist science has no interest of following the evidence to ultimate truth. They just want to learn to control the physical world. Ex. 7:11 Pharaoh, also called
the wise men, the sorcerers and magicians of Egypt. They also did in like manner with their enchantments."

I agree. BUT We don't want to say all science or scientists are evil. That said in the sense of the ancients that's exactly what they are. I think you are dead on the money, where it becomes evil is : (quoting you)

" Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth."

The way I see it, Satan has a dark spiritual influence on scientists that become evolutionists and then atheists. Their view humans is no longer as image bearers of God. Then people are just animals to do experiments on.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

Originally posted by Howie47
I don't have time to read this whole thread. But in case no one else has brought it up. I think sorcery and witchcraft are terms that most accurately describe modern science. Science does advocate allot of self control by drugs. It is also manipulating the physical world with knowledge. Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth. Materialist science has no interest of following the evidence to ultimate truth. They just want to learn to control the physical world. Ex. 7:11 Pharaoh, also called
the wise men, the sorcerers and magicians of Egypt. They also did in like manner with their enchantments."

I agree. BUT We don't want to say all science or scientists are evil. That said in the sense of the ancients that's exactly what they are. I think you are dead on the money, where it becomes evil is : (quoting you)

" Knowledge that is removed from, or disconnected from, ultimate truth."

The way I see it, Satan has a dark spiritual influence on scientists that become evolutionists and then atheists. Their view humans is no longer as image bearers of God. Then people are just animals to do experiments on.

Ohhhh don't even get me started on science. I'd never say scientists are evil, but I will say science is. Any 'system' that shoots in the 'heavenlies' or at the heavenlies (moon for example) is without a doubt in direct opposition to our Creator. Plus, isn't it 'science' that produces all these medicines? There is a way that seems right, but the end thereof is destruction....Thanks for pointing to the obvious Howie and welcome to the board.

BW, I would love to hear more on the way you see it. I've found many references in the bible that just might lead you to satan through science. In other words it's quite possible that science is satans deception tool/belief system.

My take on science...

Well we live in what is known as post modern times. Postmodernists are typically atheistic or agnostic while some prefer to follow eastern religion thoughts and practices. Many are naturalist including humanitarians, environmentalists, and philosophers. Most scientists are naturalists.

To me science is mans way of describing how God does things. Isaac Newton's belief in the glory of a rational God who established a law-abiding cosmos was probably the last of it's kind. Charles Darwin started out with the premise in mind,"If there is no God who created all of this, how could it have happened?" The result was the Origin of Species (published 1859). God has been systematically taken out of science ever since.

Einstein believed in God, but not necessarily the Christian God.

want to know how God created this world. I am not interested in this or that
phenomenon, in the spectrum of this or that element. I want to know his thoughts. The rest are details. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, 2000 p.202)

But Isaiah 55:8 replies back

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. (NIV)

Einstein would say

We know nothing about [God, the world] at all. All our knowledge is but the
knowledge of schoolchildren. Possibly we shall know a little more than we do now. but the real nature of things, that we shall never know, never. (The Expanded Quotable Einstein, Princeton University Press, Page 208)

So Einstein acknowledged God, But he didn't worship him. He worshiped science.


I think today it has grown much worse. Science has grown so arrogant that most scientists do not even acknowledge any God.

In his pride the wicked does not seek him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.(Ps 10:4)

Evolution has all the trappings of a religion. It takes incredible faith to believe all of creation is an accident. More faith than I can muster. Now we have devalued the sanctity of life to the point we slaughter 46 million unborn babies per year world wide. Because Science tells us it's OK.






[edit on 3/4/2008 by Bigwhammy]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
My take on science...

Thanks BW. You did a way better job detailing the problems of science than I could have-so you get a star * You hit the nail on the head when you quoted Einstein or should I say Einstein hit the nail on the head when he summed up science in a nutshell with this comment "I want to know His (God's) thoughts" Science want's to know God's thoughts and will go to extreme lengths to do it. But they are nothing more than thieves and robbers for trying to 'get in another way' or 'through some back door'

(Ezekiel 7:22)
My face will I turn also from them, and they shall pollute my secret place: for the robbers shall enter into it, and defile it. (KJV)

I'm having trouble with this post, so I think I'll end it at this, there is but one way to The Father and that is through His Son, it's so easy, perhaps too easy for the wisdom of this world to comprehend.

John 1:5
And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
Charles Darwin started out with the premise in mind,"If there is no God who created all of this, how could it have happened?" The result was the Origin of Species (published 1859). God has been systematically taken out of science ever since.

I was reading something awhile back you might find interesting. Contrary to popular belief, Charles Darwin was actually a deist/theist/agnostic (can't remember which). He was born and raised in a Christian home and even considered/trained to be a priest/cleric (cannot remember which one). After the death of his daughter and after witnessing some of the cruelty in nature (something about a certain species of wasp), he lost His faith in a benevolent God.

Sadly, it seems many do after a personal tragedy. It also seems sad that he thought it contradicted the Judeo-Christian God since we are told explicitly in the Bible nature will be out of whack and 'cruel' until Jesus returns.

So, then he put his evidence together. Even still, he was outspoken about the fact that his new theories did not contradict theism. I always thought that story was bittersweet but for some reason many atheistic evolutionists are hush hush regarding the matter which leads many to assume he was an atheist.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
The NIV has mildew for the passages you quoted.

Nice try but that isn't the point. The described ritual really isn't much differennt than the sorcery practiced in voodoo or santeria. Sorcery is sorcery.

Originally posted by BigwhammyDo you ever wonder what becomes of you if the Bible is right about everything?

I spend about as much time wondering about that as I do wondering about the great pumpkin.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by Lilitu]