Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by sizzle
Hi Saint!
It is a gorgeous day here in west Texas! Been out soaking up the rays.

Good deal, can't wait for that weather to travel north and east.

Originally posted by sizzle
Was wondering if you had ever studied any of the ancient texts, such as the Sumerian texts?

I've read about them as well as some of the translations. In 10th grade I was determined to learn Sumerian...as well as being a jet fighter pilot. Turns out I get motion sickness easily from both. I kid, I would like to learn more Sumerian someday.

Originally posted by sizzle
And what your viewpoint is, if any?

Ancient empires are my favorite period of study in history. I have much to learn. I like reading about Hammurabi's Code. The semblance of order is very necessary when you have non-tribal systems. Arguably it is better than the tribal system (and history argues that point as well) but there are those who are like my father who thought the clans were the way to go. I see you've posted more specifics, so I'll jump down to there.

Originally posted by sizzle

Ancient Mesopotamian tablets say there once was a time where there were no humans on earth at all.

This is Biblically compliant. The question of "how long" is more or less what comes to mind.

Originally posted by sizzle

Instead, earth was inhabited by the gods. The gods were mining and exploiting earth's resources.

If they are gods, what need would they have of resources? One cannot help but question then their status of 'god'.

Originally posted by sizzle

Life on earth wasn't easy for these gods. As one tablet says:

When the gods like men
Bore the work and suffered the toil-
The toil of the gods was great,
The work was heavy, the distress was much---

The gods were not happy with their situation. They were prone to complaining, backstabbing, and rebellion against their leaders. They needed a solution, a new race of slaves to take over their back breaking work.

Sounds remarkably like people, no? And, is compliant to God making man work the land until death. In fact, man working the land until death is a very old concept that hadn't really changed since the last hundred years or so. Depending on what disasters may occur, this past may even repeat itself. Personally, I hope not. I like having the choice.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by saint4God]

Originally posted by sizzle

The ancient Mesopotamian civilizations recorded a great deal of their history on clay tablets. They tell a remarkable story about the gods and their relationship to humans. These tablets reflect that the gods had male and female bodies, and they bred by sexual intercourse. In fact, ancient Mesopotamians stated that they provided these ruling gods with human prostitutes.

Do you think time makes ancestors gods? We both know George Washington never did anything wrong and his portrait is revered on every piece of currency.

Originally posted by sizzle

Human civilization suddenly pops up around 4,000 BC. The only written history that we have is for the past 6,000 years. The Great Pyramid of Giza reflects the biblical record revealing 4,000 BC as the year The Adam was created. You will find a link to the Great Pyramid of Prophecy on the links page which backs up this hypothesis.

French excavators have found tombs from as far back at 6,000 B.C. I don't think our records are right on humans beginning at 4,000 B.C. There seems to be evidence going even further back as well. When 'time began' I don't know and am highly skeptical that anyone else knows for sure as well.

Originally posted by sizzle
So, where did we humans come from?

Dust = carbon + Air = O2 + Water = H2O

Originally posted by sizzle
We have the Bible and ancient Sumerian clay tablets telling us that the Great Anunnaki were responsible for mankind's creation as a slave. But how did they do it exactly?

Humankind's arrangement is a creature producted by intentional engineering. I have a hard time believing any biologist who says otherwise.

Originally posted by sizzle
Many people are unaware of the sudden extinction of the Neanderthals and the sudden appearance of human beings. Evolution isn't that fast! Messrs. Howell and White pondered this question and concluded:

. . . the utter, almost abrupt disappearance of Neanderthal people remains one of the enigmas and critical problems in studies of human evolution.

One scientific problem of many in the faith of evolution.

Originally posted by sizzle
Saint, Check this out:

In Europe, occult leaders were told by their Familiar Spirits as early as the 1740's that the new American continent was to be established as the new "Atlantis", and its destiny was to assume the global leadership of the drive to the New World Order.

Uhm...okay...

Originally posted by sizzle

The United States of America was chosen to lead the world into this kingdom of Antichrist from the beginning. The capital is Washington, D.C.

In 1791, Pierre Charles L'Enfante(the designer, who was a Freemason), laid out Governmental Center of Washington, D.C., he planned more than just streets, roads, and buildings. He hid certain occultic magical symbols in the layout of U.S. Governmental Center. When these symbols are united they become one large Luciferic, or occultic, symbol.

You're pulling my chain, aren't you?

Okay, apologies if this question has come up before (I've been trying to read all the posts so I could eventually catch up but its going too fast for me!) but the one thing that always kept me away from organised religion was the whole idea of who goes to heaven. Now, if you're a Christian (I'm working from what I was taught in Sunday school and church) anyone who doesn't believe in JC or the Christian God will go to hell. Now, as far as I am aware, this same attitude goes for all the major religions, i.e. if you don't believe in "the one true God" (whoever that may be according to your religion of choice), you're going to hell and eternal suffering, etc. I have a HUGE problem with this. Does that mean that Ghandi is this moment languishing in the fires below? I don't think so. It seems to me that the problem with religion is that if you don't believe in their particular version of the truth, you're doomed. What is your take on this S4G and Sizzle or anyone else who wishes to comment?

Originally posted by LovingSoul
Now, as far as I am aware, this same attitude goes for all the major religions, i.e. if you don't believe in "the one true God" (whoever that may be according to your religion of choice), you're going to hell and eternal suffering, etc.

Revelation 20 says people are judged. Granted, the judgement does not go well for most, but there seems to be an assumption that God is unjust. Not sure why this is.

Originally posted by LovingSoul
I have a HUGE problem with this. Does that mean that Ghandi is this moment languishing in the fires below? I don't think so.

Is that really for either one of us to decide? Ghandi did a lot of really cool things, but just because someone does cool things does not guarentee a pure heart. I'd like to think he has one, but again, not either of us to decide.

Originally posted by LovingSoul
It seems to me that the problem with religion is that if you don't believe in their particular version of the truth, you're doomed.

Then they may be neglecting this:

"After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb." - Revelation 7:9

Originally posted by LovingSoul
What is your take on this S4G and Sizzle or anyone else who wishes to comment?

I think a big problem with understanding what it means to be saved, is what a person is saved from. A saved person is saved from the judgemental ruling against them. Apparently there are not many who pass. In fact after reading "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God," (Romans 3:23) it does not bode well for us. "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." (Matthew 5:48) That leaves me out. This is why I needed saving.

reply to post by LovingSoul


Personally,
I can only answer this according to my beliefs as a Christian and the texts that are available to us.

We are offered salvation through what Jesus Christ did for us on the cross. It is a free gift, for the asking. If it could be done any other way, it would have been foolish for Jesus to have submitted to such a grueling death. He asked His Father if there was any other way, let the cup pass from Him. Apparently, there was no other way. The crucifixion went forward.

We are told in the scriptures that there is only one unforgivable sin. That sin is, blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy means-rejection.

The scripture goes on to tell us that not only will it not be forgiven in this world or the next; but it can NOT be forgiven.

To say whether Ghandi is in hell, would be judging. We are not to do that. Because we do not know what transpires in a person's heart, even in their final seconds of life.

Originally posted by LovingSoul
Okay, apologies if this question has come up before (I've been trying to read all the posts so I could eventually catch up but its going too fast for me!) but the one thing that always kept me away from organised religion was the whole idea of who goes to heaven. Now, if you're a Christian (I'm working from what I was taught in Sunday school and church) anyone who doesn't believe in JC or the Christian God will go to hell. Now, as far as I am aware, this same attitude goes for all the major religions, i.e. if you don't believe in "the one true God" (whoever that may be according to your religion of choice), you're going to hell and eternal suffering, etc. I have a HUGE problem with this. Does that mean that Ghandi is this moment languishing in the fires below? I don't think so. It seems to me that the problem with religion is that if you don't believe in their particular version of the truth, you're doomed. What is your take on this S4G and Sizzle or anyone else who wishes to comment?

Let me ask you this. If I were to walk into a crowded restaurant and pull out a gun and shoot a waiter in the face, when I got to court would the judge look at the crime I had committed or look at all of the charity work that I do?


G-d has given us a set of laws that no human being can say they haven't broken at least one of them. You might be more familiar with it as the 10 commandments. All in all in the old testament there are something like 613 commandments total. But those 10 are what G-d has set as the most important. Ever been jealous of someone? Ever hated someone? Jesus tells us that to hate someone is the same thing as murder. I know I am guilty of breaking almost every one of the 10 commandments. Hence the need for salvation through Jesus Christ. It is not through our works that we are redeemed it is through our faith.

See the bottom line is, its not what you think that matters. Its what scripture tells us. Opinions are like butts. We all have them and they all stink.

[edit on 10-3-2008 by zombiemann]

reply to post by LovingSoul

the one thing that always kept me away from organised religion was the whole idea of who goes to heaven. Now, if you're a Christian (I'm working from what I was taught in Sunday school and church) anyone who doesn't believe in JC or the Christian God will go to hell.

Eeeewww... I was afraid this question would pop up. Saint is gonna despise me after this.

The way I see things, Ghandi is not in hell... at least not yet. Whether or not he winds up there is completely up to him. I think we as humans, have again mucked up the plan. Thank God we aren't in control; He is.

In the Bible, there are multiple words that were translated as 'hell'. One meant simply, death. Another meant the 'underworld' (including the one in Luke, referenced below). None meant a pit of fire and brimstone. This came form two places: the parable Jesus spoke where Lazarus, in torment, was separated from a tormented rich man by a wide abyss (Luke 16: 19-31), and the references in Revelation to the pit or fire and brimstone where Satan and the false prophet are sent.

In the classic NDE experiences (which are the closest we can get to an eyewitness account), there is always a bright light. In Revelations, the fifth seal reveals an multitude under the throne of God, crying for vengeance. When Jesus spoke with the thief who was crucified with Him, He promised him he would be in 'paradise'... not 'heaven'. And if you research the Hebrew word used for 'heavens' in the OT, it literally meant the expanse of the sky. Obviously, there is some room for confusion when these things are viewed with the classic 'heaven or hell' scenario.

I tend to think that we have missed something very profound in the translations since God began to give Moses information to write down. Rather than the old idea of 'when you die you either go to heaven or hell', I tend to believe that the place we go is something akin to what others have described as an 'alternate dimension' (although I hate that term for its inaccuracy, it is the best description I can give right now). In this dimension, we either wait, or hopefully sleep (and the Bible seems to indicate the latter). To move back to an earlier question, this would explain non-demonic ghosts, dead people who simply haven't yet entered the light for whatever reason.

At judgment day, we will all stand before God. We will answer for our sins, not necessarily to God, but to ourselves. To further the analogy zombiemann proposed (which I think is very apt), imagine God as the Judge (not prosecutor), ourselves as the accused, and Satan as the prosecutor. We have an option: we can request Jesus as our defense attorney/bailsman. If we do, the 'fine' is paid and we are free form the prosecution. If we do not, we will stand in judgment on our own. Can you honestly say that you would be judged 'not guilty'? I can't, which is why I took up Jesus' offer.

As to those who never had the opportunity to accept Jesus, there is this thousand-year reign of peace to consider before judgment day arrives. According to Revelation, Satan will be loosed afterward to again deceive the people. Perhaps this is the final test... after living under Jesus' rule for 1000 years, will you be ready to throw Him off for the same thing we have today?

All this is just a considered opinion, in any case. I personally have no idea beyond one quick NDE of what happens. As I like to say, I don't worry about it. I have a friend who's making all the travel arrangements for me. His name is Jesus.

TheRedneck

Okay, thanks for the explanations. However, it still seems to me that the only way to "salvation" is to accept JC and the Christian God / Holy Spirit as the saviour of your soul. What about people who believe as strongly that their preferred prophet / God is the true one? From what you have stated, they will be judged harshly (i.e. be sent to hell).

reply to post by LovingSoul


I prefer to focus on the statement that God is unwilling that any should perish, but that all should come unto repentance.
He is even holding back the end-time season until the Gospel is preached unto the four corners of the earth.

But He will not force it upon anyone. It is a free gift. Not an enslavement. What more can He possibly do than sacrifice His Son, and subject His children to all kinds of persecution, while they are trying to spread His Word?

What more can He do?

Originally posted by sizzle
reply to post by LovingSoul

 

I prefer to focus on the statement that God is unwilling that any should perish, but that all should come unto repentance.
He is even holding back the end-time season until the Gospel is preached unto the four corners of the earth.
...
What more can He do?

Firstly, I stand by my "misgivings" regarding religion. Again, there are people being excluded from salvation merely due to their faith (in another prophet or God), not their deeds.

Secondly, what he can do is judge on a person's deeds and heart not which God they believe in.

I remain a firm believer in God, just not religion.

Originally posted by LovingSoul
Okay, thanks for the explanations. However, it still seems to me that the only way to "salvation" is to accept JC and the Christian God / Holy Spirit as the saviour of your soul. What about people who believe as strongly that their preferred prophet / God is the true one? From what you have stated, they will be judged harshly (i.e. be sent to hell).

"Judged harshly" is not the same as "be sent to hell". "Be sent to hell" is a ruling that would come should this judgement not be favorable. The reason why many people have issue with this judgement process is because they believe God is not fair, that God is unjust. God is fair and just. God is fair and just. Saying this twice, hopefully we feel a sense of self-conviction. We realize that "hmmm, okay, I may have sinned here...oh, and there...and there too". This is a good and healthy thing to realize. As a believer, I realize I sin many times a day (10? 25? 50?). A lot of small times, sometimes big, but a sin is a sin. If heaven has no sin, how in the world would they let me in? That sin debt must be paid, then I must be washed clean so I don't dirty the floors of heaven. Christ offers to pay this debt and wash us before we walk in. Even when we try to scrub ourselves, we miss a spot. When we go over to try to clean it another spot gets dirty. But to your question more directly...

If someone is duped into following the wrong guy, what does the Bible say about that? In addition to warning to not be decieved, it says:

"...A man reaps what he sows." - Galatians 6:7

"...You will be judged according to your conduct and your actions, declares the Sovereign LORD.' " - Ezekiel 24:14

"I dispersed them among the nations, and they were scattered through the countries; I judged them according to their conduct and their actions." - Ezekiel 36:19

"...The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books." - Revelation 20:12

What about the deciever? Well, not so kind on that one:

"And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown." - Revelation 20:10

This, my friends, IS justice.

[edit on 14-3-2008 by saint4God]

So, again, if you don't believe in JC you ain't going to heaven. This is exactly why I don't do religion.
Please don't get me wrong, I believe in God and I believe that the only way to live one's life is with love. However, I refuse to believe that if I pray to Allah or become a Buddhist, I am doomed to hell.

reply to post by LovingSoul


Christianity is the only religion that can confirm in your heart that you are bound for Heaven.
ALL other religions require rituals and good works and even then no one is sure they will make it.
Reincarnation has you coming back again and again until you get it right.

Originally posted by LovingSoul
So, again, if you don't believe in JC you ain't going to heaven.

I did the best I could at explaining. Hopefully someday it will make more sense.

[edit on 14-3-2008 by saint4God]

Jesus said, "No one comes to the Father except through Me."

Jesus said, "If there is any other way, then let this cup pass from Me."

Does this make any sense yet? If a person could get to Heaven by their own merit, or good works, or following other, gods or masters; Jesus Christ would have been the biggest fool to have ever walked the earth, to have allowed himself to have suffered such a grueling death, such as crucifixion.

You might say that He did not allow it. They murdered Him. But Jesus said, "No one takes My life, but I lay it down."

Several times when the soldiers came to arrest him before He was ready, He disappeared from their sight. And even that very night, when they went to put their hands on Him, He spoke, "I AM." and the soldiers fell back. When He was ready, He allowed them to take Him.

We also have a quote in the book of James; "Not by works alone, lest any man should boast, but by faith." And; "Faith without works is dead."

Originally posted by LovingSoul
So, again, if you don't believe in JC you ain't going to heaven. This is exactly why I don't do religion.
Please don't get me wrong, I believe in God and I believe that the only way to live one's life is with love. However, I refuse to believe that if I pray to Allah or become a Buddhist, I am doomed to hell.

Are you referring to Christianity when you say religion? Because Buddism, Hinduism, and Muslem are all religions too. Some, including myself, will even argue that Atheism is a religion. So it sounds like you're saying that if you have to believe in Christ that you're doomed to hell, so you choose not to believe anything. Is that a wise choice? I mean, I'm just asking because choices affect everything in life AND death.

At some point in time you have to come to the conclusion that if it's the truth...then it's true...whether you like it or not. You could say, "that's just the way it is, my friend".

Please don't think I'm bashing you...I'm not. I'm just asking you to think a little deeper into it and realize your convictions affect everything, now and forever.

[edit on 15-3-2008 by Keeper of Kheb]