Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

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posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 11:49 AM
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Originally posted by Osiris1953
Which of the below does not describe God?

Omniscient

or

Omnibenevolent

or

Omnipotent

I'll give the reasoning behind the question after you have answered.



Which of the following does not describe you: Kind, Helpful, Cheerful. I'm sure you're one or all of these at some points, though I doubt you elect to do all three all the time.

As far as all-seeing:

"From heaven the LORD looks down and sees all mankind;" - Psalm 33:13

We have documentation of knowing all here:

"Jesus, knowing all that was going to happen to him, went out and asked them, "Who is it you want?" - John 18:4

"Later, knowing that all was now completed, and so that the Scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." - John 19:28

For all powerful, there's more references than I can quote, but some are:

"When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the LORD appeared to him and said, "I am God Almighty ; walk before me and be blameless." - Genesis 17:1

"I will teach you about the power of God; the ways of the Almighty I will not conceal." - Job 27:11

Regarding 'all-loving' ...I'm sorry but this seems to be a misnomer in discussing the characteristics of God. Out of the three, I'd say the second one does not belong.


[edit on 4-3-2008 by saint4God]




posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 11:58 AM
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Originally posted by Lonte
Israel Jews can't love their neighbour Palestine, can they?


According to Christ, they're supposed to:

"But he wanted to justify himself, so he asked Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?"

In reply Jesus said: "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, when he fell into the hands of robbers. They stripped him of his clothes, beat him and went away, leaving him half dead. A priest happened to be going down the same road, and when he saw the man, he passed by on the other side. So too, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a Samaritan, as he traveled, came where the man was; and when he saw him, he took pity on him. He went to him and bandaged his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. Then he put the man on his own donkey, took him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two silver coins and gave them to the innkeeper. 'Look after him,' he said, 'and when I return, I will reimburse you for any extra expense you may have.'

"Which of these three do you think was a neighbor to the man who fell into the hands of robbers?" - Luke 10:29-36


Originally posted by Lonte
If you believe in your god just believe it, why you call yourself christian?


"The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch." - Acts 11:27


Originally posted by Lonte
You want to be different,


Some people want to be different, many do not. Being Christian does not make you neither different nor the same as others...only sharing in similarities and having differences.


Originally posted by Lonte
and you want people to join you?


No, I want people to establish a working relationshp with God. If they want me to help, I'll do my best.


Originally posted by Lonte
You are strong or you are weak?


I am strong in God, I am weak without Him.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 12:17 PM
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Again, saint, you have earned my respect. Thank you for this thread. I believe many people are indeed searching for the truth, but they are blinded by false doctrine and misinterpretation/misrepresentation of the doctrinal basis for our belief. I once heard an evangelical preacher make the statement, "God's biggest obstacle is religion". How true.

I am also happy to see non-believers here who have an open mind, open enough to at least ask for clarification. Of course, there are those who will always seek to derail such a discussion in favor of their own narrow-minded view by way of describing the narrow-minded view being presented. Ironic. And tragic. Keep a simple rule in mind when they appear: illegimati non carborundum.

As a Christian myself, I have no questions, but I will be watching this thread and will inject anything I question... as is my nature.
Again, good show!

TheRedneck



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 12:36 PM
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Thanks Red, I think a lot of believers tend to forget where they came from. Although there are those who were raised in a Christian household, always went to church and never questioned whether or not God existed, I do think more than likely something will occur in their life where they will question. Then comes the decision time. For the rest of us, it shouldn't be a great stretch to remember what life was like without God being a part of it. For me, it's not something I want to think about for too long. Those times sucked, to put it candidly. Yeah, there was the the occasional fun thing that happened but still it was a hunger and emptiness that was never fulfilled. So, when someone says "I don't believe in God", it should neither surprise us nor make us feel any different than, "I know how that is".

The cool thing about fellowship is being able to check yourself with others. I think a lot of people miss that great benefit by not going to church (as I did a few years ago), but now that I'm there and can bounce off thoughts, ideas, scriptures, how life is going, the right thing to do, etc. There's much to be learned than one's single point of view. I'm grateful too that there are believers on ATS who are honest enough to tell me "you're full of crap" though appreciate the underlying mutual respect or "yeah, you're on it!" if I'm indeed on target. True friends will tell you when you have something stuck in your teeth, not that you look great even when you don't
.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by saint4God]



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
And what about Ghosts? Is there room for ghosts in Christianity?


Of course! At least one.


Regarding others than that one, it seems there are two different kinds of ghost encounters:

+ Ghosts that are not aware of our existance. They seem to be in 're-play' mode of a history (usually tragic). For these, I'd like the reader to look up and see photos/videos of Heat Signatures. Interesting thing about a heat signature camera, after someone leaves the room, there image is still there. Why is this? Perhaps physics has a similar anomaly for people who have lived in the past.

+ Ghosts that are actively trying to interact with people. These ghosts seem polarized either very positive or very negative. One might even say angels or demons. Although it may be confusing at times, I haven't heard any 'neutral' experiences with them (or experiences that turned out to be neutral)


Originally posted by Rasobasi420
I thought it was heaven, hell or purgatory (which at one point I heard was somewhere between Pluto and Neptune)?


That's where a soul goes...but heat signatures? Maybe light signatures? We know demons and angels aren't confined to heaven and hell.


Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Does Jesus allow ghosts to just wander around willy nilly?


Big doubts on the willy nilly. I haven't find anything on creation that fits the description of purposeless.


I heard an interesting sermon on ghosts once. Of course, you can take it or leave it; but I found it very possible in explaining a lot of things.
The pastor said that he believed that ghosts were familiar spirits and not the spirit or ghost of a departed person.
Explanation: A familiar spirit is similar to a guardian angel in essence that it is attached to a human being through out his/her lifetime. It knows everything about that person. Every intimate and personal detail.
That is why when a seance is performed for friends and family members, and that spirit can answer things that only that departed person would have known.
The way that I read the Bible, is that once we die, we die. We do not hang around and haunt houses and family members. Just something to think about.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by sizzle
I heard an interesting sermon on ghosts once. Of course, you can take it or leave it; but I found it very possible in explaining a lot of things.
The pastor said that he believed that ghosts were familiar spirits and not the spirit or ghost of a departed person.


I'm always wary of a sermon that talks beyond what is Biblically written about. If I wanted to hear someone's personal opinion, I'd much rather discuss it on a forum...like on ATS


Originally posted by sizzle
Explanation: A familiar spirit is similar to a guardian angel in essence that it is attached to a human being through out his/her lifetime. It knows everything about that person. Every intimate and personal detail.
That is why when a seance is performed for friends and family members, and that spirit can answer things that only that departed person would have known.


The issue I have with this is that in this case seances would be encouraged...which is contradictory to what the Bible says about contacting the spiritual realm with divination and other sorcery. Remember what happened to King Saul?


Originally posted by sizzle
The way that I read the Bible, is that once we die, we die. We do not hang around and haunt houses and family members. Just something to think about.


I know I'm not going to be hanging around
. I've heard that Houdini told his wife that if it were possible to contact someone beyond the grave, he would let her know by any means possible. He never had.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 02:19 PM
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Not being argumentative. But familiar spirits are mentioned in the bible. Can't give you chapter and verse, as my bible got drenched a while back and I haven't replaced it.
I am by no means encouraging seances. I believe that they are an open door to other dangerous entities. Just my personal opinion.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 



According to The Bible record, sorcerers, or necromancers, who claimed the ability to contact the dead were said to have a "familiar spirit." The word "familiar" in this usage is derived from the Latin word familiaris, meaning a "household servant," and was intended to imply that they had spirits as their servants, ready to obey their commands, which for some of them may have been partly true - but the spirits were demons. The rest, like the many carnival "mediums" today, either had hidden human (or in modern times, electronic) assistants, or were skilled ventriloquists who could fake the sound of a voice coming from the ground, or from "thin air."



The Old Testament Hebrew word for those with familiar spirits meant a bottle, since they were regarded as a vessel for the inspiring demon. The New Testament Greek word was equivalent in meaning, and whether they were fakers, or actually possessed by a spirit, the people of God were to have absolutely nothing to do with them.

"Do not turn to mediums or wizards; do not seek them out, to be defiled by them." (Leviticus 19:31 RSV)

"There shall not be found among you any one who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, any one who practices divination, a soothsayer, or an augur, or a sorcerer, or a charmer, or a medium, or a wizard, or a necromancer. For whoever does these things is an abomination to The Lord; and because of these abominable practices The Lord your God is driving them out before you. You shall be blameless before The Lord your God." (Deuteronomy 18:10-13 RSV)

Fact Finder: Did the apostle Paul have an encounter with someone who actually had a "familiar spirit"?
Acts 16:16-18
www.keyway.ca...



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 02:37 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


Thank you for your response. I think that is the only answer that does not require me to explain anything. I respect you and your beliefs, and since you can also see that describing god as omnibenevolent would be a misnomer, there is no need for me to explain the reasoning behind the question. Good job.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 02:45 PM
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Thanks sizzle, I didn't mean to knock down the sermon without hearing it, rather just explaining why the suggestion would have me on guard. Good Bible quote, very straight-forward on the matter as I see it.


Originally posted by Osiris1953
Thank you for your response. I think that is the only answer that does not require me to explain anything. I respect you and your beliefs, and since you can also see that describing god as omnibenevolent would be a misnomer, there is no need for me to explain the reasoning behind the question. Good job.


All-loving is a misnomer as I see it, said I. Not to be interchangeable with omnibenevolent. Is omnibenevolent "good for everyone" or "done for the greater good"? God does do things for the greater good, but may not be good for everyone.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 02:59 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999

Originally posted by Nohup

Originally posted by saint4God
By request from a friend, I'm opening this thread to give an opportunity for anyone to ask any questions of me as a believer.


I would, but unfortunately as a Christian believer, all of your answers are going to be perfectly predictable and unoriginal. A person might as well ask a question to a tree or a brick wall. No new or interesting information is likely to be exchanged, and in the end nothing will be accomplished. Thank you, but I'll pass.


Heh! I couldn't have said it better myself. How incredibly patronizing to assume that just because you're a christian you somehow know more than other people here. I would kindly suggest that if anything, it's probably the other way around; you people need to start peeling the blinders off your eyes and give the sermonizing a rest. No-one is really that interested.

J.

I am the friendthat requested that Saint4God, open this thread. He did hesitate for the very reasons that you and a few others mention.
He did not want to appear as projecting himself as 'The Ultimate Authority' and the expected arguments that would surely ensue.
I personally had many questions about things, and felt that many others did, also. I encouraged him that there were other spiritually inspired ppl on this board who would pitch in and assist, where his knowledge may be lacking.
This thread was not for the purpose of preaching, sermonizing or converting anyone who does not want to be converted.
It is solely for those who need and want answers to things that the more spiritually mature, may hold.
So, blame me.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 03:08 PM
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This is an excerpt from a conversation I had with S4G, on this matter:

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by sizzle
But I would think that it ought to fit in the religious section, somewhere.


"I put it in paranormal since that's where this idea came from and we can talk about some more shade of grey topics like ghosts perhaps. The "dunking booth" syndrome may be lower. We'll see!" Saint4God


Originally posted by sizzle
Maybe I should have been more clear. I didn't mean for you to portray yourself as the ultimate authority, but I thought that maybe, once it was opened; Many could give their opinions.


"I hope so. Dunno if I have the energy or ability to run solo." Sain4God


"I have a feeling that many would join in to assist.
I will certainly be there for support. Since I am seeking,
I may not have much to contribute in assistance.
But I will have some questions." Sizzle
www.abovetopsecret.com...


[edit on 4-3-2008 by sizzle]



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 05:24 PM
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Okay, here is a question, not necessarily pointed directly to S4G, but to anyone who may have indepth knowledge on the subject of Adam's supposed first wife, Lillith. Is there any truth to this?



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 05:46 PM
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Hello saint, long time no speak. I have a question (or two) for you, I know you'll give me an honest christian perspective...

How many dimensions or levels of existence do you think there are?

I have met some... and come to realise that there are more types or species of both spiritual and physical entities/beings than I could probably ever imagine. How do you know that the God you have proof of is the one at the very top of the tree and not simply a higher enitity(ies)?

I think it was Arthur C. Clarke that once said "Any advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic".

I think this is also true of beings. Any significantly advanced entity would be indistinguishable from God(s) (by humans).

What is your perspective on this.

Peace
~Prote



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 07:26 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


I think I just found something that better explains what I was trying to say about ghosts and familiar spirits:

Necromancy, a supposed communication with the dead, is a facet of the familiar spirit's operation. Necromancy is an outright deception. Rather than communicating with a particular person, the medium is in contact with a spirit which is familiar with that dead person. The spirit is able to give information and produce manifestations which lead the necromancer to suppose that he has contacted the spirit of a certain dead person.
home.mchsi.com...



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 07:34 PM
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Originally posted by saint4God
I don't think there's much denial from Christians that Ouiji boards work. The debate usually comes into what it was that was summoned. My friend's brother stated the question asked was "Are you Satan?" to which the reply was "yes", before the board had taken flight.


Doesn't mean it's the Devil. Did he try asking if it was God? Try it, and let us know what happens.

Some friends of mine did it. First they asked, "Are you man?". It said "No." So they said, "Are you a woman?" It said, "No." So they said, "What are you then?" It said, "I'm a dinosaur." I'm serious.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 07:44 PM
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YAWN....wow, this is still going on huh?

So - since when did a christian consider the 'paranormal' anything other than the 'work of Satan' exactly? Has there been some kind of metaphorical shift in christian theology of recent times? Or has the OP suddenly come into a new understanding of biblical texts? One that is apparently unavailable to other christians worldwide?

Inquiring minds want to know!

And if not - just WHAT does this whole shebang have to do with 'Paranormal Studies' exactly??? Pray tell?

J.



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 07:49 PM
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reply to post by saint4God
 


I think that they are in fact somewhat interchangeable. The is no need however, to disagree over something so trivial. In the end, it simply proves to me that though our theological beliefs may differ, I can certainly respect you as an individual. Thank you for discussing your faith in an open and honest manner. It's Christians like you who help the faith by discussing the matter in a manner that Jesus would be proud of. I'm not planning on converting, but I applaud you for sticking to your beliefs in a positive way.


Flagged and starred..keep up the good work.


[edit on 4-3-2008 by Osiris1953]



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 09:32 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
YAWN....wow, this is still going on huh?

So - since when did a christian consider the 'paranormal' anything other than the 'work of Satan' exactly? Has there been some kind of metaphorical shift in christian theology of recent times? Or has the OP suddenly come into a new understanding of biblical texts? One that is apparently unavailable to other christians worldwide?

Inquiring minds want to know!

And if not - just WHAT does this whole shebang have to do with 'Paranormal Studies' exactly??? Pray tell?

J.

Since this is obviously so boring to you. Why are you still here. I mean other than to make snide offensive remarks that add nothing to the thread?



posted on Mar, 4 2008 @ 09:45 PM
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Originally posted by jimbo999
YAWN....wow, this is still going on huh?

So - since when did a christian consider the 'paranormal' anything other than the 'work of Satan' exactly?


You took the words out of mouth. The Bible says the paranormal is evil and to be avoided. So what's the point discussing it from a Christian viewpoint when the viewpoint is totally inflexible and already fixed? We know what christians think already--whatever they're told--and they're incapable of change. Like you said...YAWN.





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