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posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:46 PM
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I hear ya dude. These are questions I would love to ask my neighbor but dont want to offend him.




posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:47 PM
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Originally posted by ShiftTrio
Well I didn't get this just from south Park, and I do know there are several versions of the story,.. But perhaps there are some facts left out But From the Mormon site, I compared ir, there may be other pieces that make these make more sense, that may be the case, Because I would like to know. Because from what I see right now it was a mass brain washing.

PS Every Mormon I have met IS very very nice, a little odd, but very very nice and have good families, and do things we surly don't do we wish we could or chose to do. And no offense is meant, but the names and places in that story are true Correct?


To understand what the church really thinks about the Joe Smith story, take a minute and read parts of the Book of Mormon. That is what the church truely supports about it.

I know, its weird that this would all happen to a 14 year old kid, but stranger things have happened. Its all about faith.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:50 PM
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Mayhem,

Can you tell me what parts of the story are false, I dont want to tell a bad story here, I have seen it compared on other sites, and the only thing I have seen have been things like, Joesph was not alone but a younger man livng with his brother etc.. But not that these parts are not true. I just want to make sure I know the whole story here

Thanks



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:52 PM
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Originally posted by ShiftTrio
Joe Smith Said he was out in the woods praying to God to ask what religion he should be, and God and Jesus told him to start his own religion because none of them were right. So one night he was visited Or had a vision depending on who tells it from an Angel named Moroni.
He told Joe, he was a Native American and that all the Native Americans were white, and took a boat from Jerusalem. But they where all killed by the other tribes of Israel and they are the native Americans today because God turned there Skin Red.

So he told him to look for some Gold Plates which have a new Gospel that says Jesus came to America.
He told Joe where to find it and Joe said he found it with 2 Stones the Urim and Thummim that could translate the plates, When asked where they were, he said God said he could not show them to anyone. LOL

So, he goes to a rich guy named Martin Harris, he said he needed money to publish his book the book of Mormon, So in order to translate the book and have no one see it, While Martin Harris Wrote, Joe, Put the Plates with the stones in a Hat and stuck his head in it to read it and started his translation because the stones turned the words into English. LOL OMG..

So Martin Harris goes home and tell his Wife, His wife says how do you know he is not making it up, She tell her husband to go back and say he lost the transcriptions and if its true he should be able to translate it exactly again.

When he told Joe Smith this, Joe left and said he had to pray, He came back and Said God was mad and that he was no longer able to translate from the one book , but could translate from another, so the story will be about the same but different. LOL..

And the Mormons KNOW THIS LOL.. My lord...

There a bit more but that's the basic story.. Oh Joe said the first Man and Woman came from Jackson Missouri LOL


Ok, let me check your story now.

1. The Angel Moroni didnt go into that much detail on his first visit. In fact, Moroni visited several times.

2. Joe didnt stick the stones into a hat to translate. By the time Joe Smith went to Martain Harris, it was time for publication, and Joe Smith had already deciphered what was said. He did this with the help of another man, who's name escapes me right now.

3. Martain Harris didnt get the whole version of the B of M. He got a certain portion of it. And because of the certain version Harris had got lost, it is not published with the B of M because no one has it.

4. As for Adam and Eve, we dont believe they came Jackson Missouri, but it is believe that where Jackson Missouri is, is where the Garden of Eden was.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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Thats right I did read it was Eden not adam and Eve, Sorry the Catholic slipped outta me



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by dreamrebel
I hear ya dude. These are questions I would love to ask my neighbor but dont want to offend him.


Dreamrebel, I think if I wasnt brought up in the mormon religon, I would think it was weird too. I know there are a lot of wierd stories out there, a lot that are false.

I have no problem people asking me things. Your neighbors might not either.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:55 PM
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OMG, I live in Idaho, and there are Mormons everywhere! I think that their religion is similiar to a cult (no offense). I dunno, they just seem to brainwash thier people, and there are so many restrictions on what you can and cannot do. No caffiene, no spaghetti straps, no R-rated movies, etc....


I think it would suck. I really dont like being restricted to anything.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:57 PM
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Get my award hands down for:

* best nativity displays on front lawns of major temples prior to Christmas

* most straight-faced missionaries.

Two sharp dressed men (brown suits, bicycles obviously) wheel up to my front door.

MA: "Hmmm. Brown suits, bikes. You must be morons!"

Missionary #1: "Good afternoon sir. You mean Mormons... yes, we (cut short)"

MA: "You would have to be thirsty on a hot day! Can I get you a beer?"

Missionaries 1 & 2 look almost (almost) tempted, but decline.

MA: "How many wives are you allowed to have?"

Missionary 1: "One."

MA: "I'm a little busy, can I buy some literature from you?" (throwing my friends a Jehova's Witness/Seventh Day Adventist flick pass).

Missionary 1: "Er, we don't have any to sell with us, but this leaflet will encourage you to (cut short)"

MA: "Thank you. May your god go with you as you find yourselves in peak hour traffic."

*exeunt*

I felt that if Missionary #2 developed some punchy dialogue bouncing off missionary #1's straight guy, rather than adopting the 'mute' character, they could get some interesting stand-up stuff going.





[Edited on 18-2-2004 by MaskedAvatar]



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:58 PM
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Quote:
__________________________________________

To the ardent follower of Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon is the surest proof of his prophetic office. It is the one undeniable sign of his divinely given gifts of translation. To the skeptic, the Book of Mormon is an interesting example of early American frontier fiction, both quaint and pretentious, a living monument to human greed and gullibility. An analysis of the Book is useful, not because it tells us anything at all about ancient America, but rather for the insights that it gives us into the human psyche, into the mind of both the con artist and his mark.

It is evident that Joseph Smith used a number of sources in his monumental work. One of these was his own immediate environment, specifically the intense speculation about the origin of the Native Americans that fired the collective imagination of early nineteenth century New England. But, by far the most fruitful source of both ideas and prose in the Book of Mormon is the King James Bible.

It is an undeniable fact that the Book of Mormon quotes the Bible. This fact is acknowledged in the Book itself, in such phrases as '...now I, Nephi, write more of the words of Isaiah, for my soul delighteth in his words.' (II Nephi 11:2). The Book of Mormon contains extensive quotes from Isaiah - some twenty-two chapters of the prophet are found in the Book, in many cases quoted verbatim from the King James Version.

What is less well known is that the Book of Mormon makes a large number of unacknowledged Biblical quotes. These quotes appear as part and parcel of the narrative of the Book, and are quoted by different authors at different times. It is these quotes that are of interest, because they reveal something about the origin of the Book of Mormon.

This article will look at the various ways in which the author of the Book of Mormon made use of the Bible in his text.

The Scope of the Problem
As already noted, there is a large amount of acknowledged, quoted material in the Book of Mormon. These include the prophets Isaiah and Malachi from the Old Testament, and the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5-7) from the New.

It can also be shown that the Book of Mormon contains an extraordinary number of unacknowledged Biblical quotes. The exact number is difficult to pin down, for a variety of reasons, but can safely be said to exceed several hundred.[1] The New Testament is by far the most fruitful source of these quotes. Of the twenty-six books of the New Testament, twenty of them are represented by one or more quotes in the Book of Mormon. The Old Testament also furnished a small number of unacknowledged quotes. Among these are quotes from Genesis, Exodus, Job, Micah, Hosea and Psalms.


This link casts serious doubt about the athenticity of the book of Mormon:

www.lds-mormon.com...





posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 05:59 PM
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Originally posted by JustAnIllusion
OMG, I live in Idaho, and there are Mormons everywhere! I think that their religion is similiar to a cult (no offense). I dunno, they just seem to brainwash thier people, and there are so many restrictions on what you can and cannot do. No caffiene, no spaghetti straps, no R-rated movies, etc....


I think it would suck. I really dont like being restricted to anything.


Well like I have said, JustAnIllusion, to say mormons are forbidden from it isnt entirely correct. A lot of people assume things about the religon because they dont understand them. The religon itself is not that strict. It all depends on the individual. All churchs come out and say how they would like their members to act. For example, a majority of religons want people to wait for marriage before having sex, but its not forbidden. People are free to choose.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:01 PM
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Originally posted by MaskedAvatar
Get my award hands down for:

* best nativity displays on front lawns of major temples prior to Christmas

* most straight-faced missionaries.

Two sharp dressed men (brown suits, bicycles obviously) wheel up to my front door.

MA: "Hmmm. Brown suits, bikes. You must be morons!"

Missionary #1: "Good afternoon sir. You mean Mormons... yes, we (cut short)"

MA: "You would have to be thirsty on a hot day! Can I get you a beer?"

Missionaries 1 & 2 look almost (almost) tempted, but decline.

MA: "How many wives are you allowed to have?"

Missionary 1: "One."

MA: "I'm a little busy, can I buy some literature from you?" (throwing my friends a Jehova's Witness/Seventh Day Adventist flick pass).

Missionary 1: "Er, we don't have any to sell with us, but this leaflet will encourage you to (cut short)"

MA: "Thank you. May your god go with you as you find yourselves in peak hour traffic."

*exeunt*

I felt that if Missionary #2 developed some punchy dialogue bouncing off missionary #1's straight guy, rather than adopting the 'mute' character, they could get some interesting stand-up stuff going.





[Edited on 18-2-2004 by MaskedAvatar]


LOL! Thats quite funny. Some of those missionaries arent the brightest people. lol



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:03 PM
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dreamrebel,

Like I said, Im not here to stick up for the religon. I havent studied it enough to truely stick up for it. I havent been to church in over 3 months.

There has always been questions about the B of M. There are also questions about the validity of the bible too.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:05 PM
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I remember there were these two mormon missionaries that used to come over and visit my friends place quite alot.. we would sit there and drink and smoke pot and get into theological debates... one dude who was from the States and had grown up a mormon got offended by us questioning anything (understadable) and was actively trying to get us to read the book of mormon (which some of us did) but he then refused to read any religious or spiritual literalture we gave him... the other dude was a new convert from tonga and i could see he was dying for a hit from a bong and a beer but he held back but he was cool we chatted with him like a mate not some smartly dressed preacher...

That goes to show the strictness of the religion comes down to the indivivual and how closely they wish to follow their fath (the same as catholics and muslims and jews) there are set rules you MUST follow and guideline which are reccomended but not mandatory...

but hey do put forward some good ideas like all religions do... and their missionaries are much cooler than the Jehovas witnesses



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:06 PM
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Understood - this thread made me do a google search and that was a site found.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by Mayhem
[Well like I have said, JustAnIllusion, to say mormons are forbidden from it isnt entirely correct. A lot of people assume things about the religon because they dont understand them. The religon itself is not that strict. It all depends on the individual. All churchs come out and say how they would like their members to act. For example, a majority of religons want people to wait for marriage before having sex, but its not forbidden. People are free to choose.


I have a friend who got excommunicated from the Mormon church for smoking pot. I think thats kind of strict, being how the Mormon religion teaches forgiveness, but doesnt enforce it. (At least, in my friends case.)



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:10 PM
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Originally posted by specialasianX
I remember there were these two mormon missionaries that used to come over and visit my friends place quite alot.. we would sit there and drink and smoke pot and get into theological debates... one dude who was from the States and had grown up a mormon got offended by us questioning anything (understadable) and was actively trying to get us to read the book of mormon (which some of us did) but he then refused to read any religious or spiritual literalture we gave him... the other dude was a new convert from tonga and i could see he was dying for a hit from a bong and a beer but he held back but he was cool we chatted with him like a mate not some smartly dressed preacher...

That goes to show the strictness of the religion comes down to the indivivual and how closely they wish to follow their fath (the same as catholics and muslims and jews) there are set rules you MUST follow and guideline which are reccomended but not mandatory...

but hey do put forward some good ideas like all religions do... and their missionaries are much cooler than the Jehovas witnesses


I didnt serve a mission, but my younger brother did. They missionaries are in fact young kids usually in the age of 19 - 21.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:17 PM
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Originally posted by JustAnIllusion

Originally posted by Mayhem
[Well like I have said, JustAnIllusion, to say mormons are forbidden from it isnt entirely correct. A lot of people assume things about the religon because they dont understand them. The religon itself is not that strict. It all depends on the individual. All churchs come out and say how they would like their members to act. For example, a majority of religons want people to wait for marriage before having sex, but its not forbidden. People are free to choose.


I have a friend who got excommunicated from the Mormon church for smoking pot. I think thats kind of strict, being how the Mormon religion teaches forgiveness, but doesnt enforce it. (At least, in my friends case.)


JustAnIllusion - Im sorry, but I really disagree with that. I dont think your friend told you the entire story. To be excommunicated from the church a lot of things have to happen first.

From past experience, Myself and several of my friends and even my brother have smoked weed, and even told the church about it and we were not ex'ed or given a really harsh punishment.

I promise you, the church only excommunicates in certain cases. And before they can excommunicate, the presidency of the church has to ok it.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:22 PM
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any comment on the ALLEGED sexual abuse and satanism in the mormon church that has been reported on this board a few months ago?



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:24 PM
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Originally posted by Garon
any comment on the ALLEGED sexual abuse and satanism in the mormon church that has been reported on this board a few months ago?


I didnt see what was reported a few months ago. Care to provide a link? Thanks.



posted on Feb, 18 2004 @ 06:25 PM
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Originally posted by Mayhem

Originally posted by specialasianX
I remember there were these two mormon missionaries that used to come over and visit my friends place quite alot.. we would sit there and drink and smoke pot and get into theological debates... one dude who was from the States and had grown up a mormon got offended by us questioning anything (understadable) and was actively trying to get us to read the book of mormon (which some of us did) but he then refused to read any religious or spiritual literalture we gave him... the other dude was a new convert from tonga and i could see he was dying for a hit from a bong and a beer but he held back but he was cool we chatted with him like a mate not some smartly dressed preacher...

That goes to show the strictness of the religion comes down to the indivivual and how closely they wish to follow their fath (the same as catholics and muslims and jews) there are set rules you MUST follow and guideline which are reccomended but not mandatory...

but hey do put forward some good ideas like all religions do... and their missionaries are much cooler than the Jehovas witnesses


I didnt serve a mission, but my younger brother did. They missionaries are in fact young kids usually in the age of 19 - 21.


yeah the two dudes that we knew (and still kinda know) were our age (19-23)





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