Wicca, gentle nature lovers or a wolf in sheeps clothing?

Thanks all for a very informative thread and to enchantress and woodwytch for the personal replies.

Just my two penn'orth worth but I always thought wicce/wicca derived from either old english or possibly had the same root as the celtic druid dure=oak wid=wise

Merry meet everyone,
Now let's start out with, I am a black man writing this. I am Wiccan and I am a mason. Now that that's out of the way let's get started.

I found out I have been wiccan all of my life. I was told I played with and read wiccan toys and book all of my life. I was sent to a christian school and grew up in a baptist home. I have family that are of the church of god and christ.

I know a lot of people place wicca with pagans. But I am not pagan. Yes they do work hand in hand but you can be one with out being the other. Pagans have been around for as long as people can reseach back. It was one of the first religions to be known about. I don't knock other peoples religions or talk bad of them. We all believe in GOD, be it him or her, or by what every name we use.

We were not called witches starting out, but I hate to bring this up, but when christianity started many years later. They wanted everyone to become christians. And this is when the word witches started and devil worship came into play. Because in wicca we believe that all life is good and is here for a reason, we pray to all thinks to give thanks and to ask for help in our endeavors. If we were going to hunt we would pray to the wools and the goddess that watched over them. If we want to hunt deer we would pray to the deer and ask to hunt to feed our families. So from this came the horns and hooves of the devil. And it was said that we worshiped animals and the devil.

We must remember that the best way to get people to leave something is to say it's bad or evil. But now with the internet you can reach anything anywhere you can get hooded up. So please keep an opened mind an read and reseach for your self.

Merry part, So mote it be.

Likely when people STOP being hung up, but sadly once people get over their own personal issues they are much less likely to spend their time here. You see, so many of these people are little more than what is often referred to as a troll. They come to share the hate, the sickly ball of frustration they feel INSIDE themselves. Just like being possessed they are DRIVEN to participate in this manner. People don't come to ATS to learn (most) they come for the contention, that subtle form of darkness that they feed on, just like the undead on brains. It nourishes their depraved souls. It consouls their loanly, broken egos and spirits.

I've met some very open-minded folk who enjoy the education. I know I do. True there are some who seem a bit angry here, but certainly I'm not one of them nor play into those exchanges.



Interesting zombie-movie analogy.



This is a 'bash the people of ATS' post, is it? Instead of addressing the topic, the preference is to say how deeply disturbed everyone is. Funny how you've started this post accusing others of trolling...and yet you have this troll-like statement here.

Can we return to the topic please?

(I'm only replying to your post because of your hate-mail sent U2U. Thanks for that unprovoked attack)

[edit on 12-5-2008 by saint4God]

I'm sorry I missed this question earlier (from page 3). It was an order from the Russian Government and the leaders thereof - Stalin, Lenin, etc. They were atheist and converted to an atheist state in accordance with the ideals of Marxist Communism. The military/police were the ones enforcing the law.



www.frommers.com...

This report falls short of mentioning the 95,000 who were executed, but the overview has some helpful information.

[edit on 12-5-2008 by saint4God]

As much as i'd like to make an intelligent post, its hard.

Wicca is a religion, just like Christianity and J... uh.. Jewish people >_> Sorry cant spell Judaism(Apologys ^_^:: I havnt had the need in so long I simply forgot, as with a lot of things.. it all seems to be getting pushed out)

and with that I think it unwise to start on Wiccans being wolves in sheeps clothing, that would be slander to an entire religion, same as if I called all people who worship a god ignorant and fearful of death.

Again sorry for my lack of intelligence I just tend to get bothered about religion in any way being tacked off

Hey there everyone,
It's good to see this thread having a revival. I thoroughly enjoyed reading the posts, contributing some of my own and meeting some lovely people on this one.

The bit I liked best about this thread in particular was (in spite of the usual minority of 'closed minds who seem to turn-up just to insult someones faith), there was some really good interaction between Christians and Pagans ... that has got to be a step in the right direction !

As I've said in the past there is only one true God-source ... but he/she/it has many paths that lead to the door. It really shouldn't matter which route is taken to respect and appreciate that.

Woody

My personal opinion.. don't mess with what you don't know. There are forces that we don't know about, and while someone like a wiccan doing ridiculous rituals and ceremonies may conjure such a force, they have NO control over it and it would essentially be endangering us all.

Fear is really what controls people. It really wasnt just christians, they still burn witches to this day in different places, just not as much as people are more aware. So many gods out in the world today lol

Really to believe in a talking statue is silly or pray to a human virgin mary, but respecting nature and connecting more with it such as trees is a good spiritual experiance.

For me as a christian, I think I can freely practice anything besides worship of other Gods [including virgin mary] or cursing people. Im really open to things spiritual besides any talk of another god, as of course im a christian.



[edit on 13-5-2008 by ConspiracyBunny]

Hi Everybody!

Wow! this is so great. I thought this thread had run it's course and since I haven't been on this site in a few weeks I really didn't know you all were talking in here again. Sorry about that. Thank you for your recent posts it's always interesting to me to hear other's points of view on religion and expecially on Wicca since it's my chosen religion. I agree with a lot of what was said here recently and Woody, thanks for the kudos! That said, I have a question for all you fellow Wiccan's out there. This is a bit off topic but it's a delema I deal with every day.

We live by the Rede harm none etc... and I know that encludes everything on the planet. My understanding is that a lot of Wiccan's are vegitarians because of this and I struggle with this from day to day. Here's my problem. I am diabetic and anemic. I eat red meats because without them I seem to get very ill. I've tried to go without, eating other sources of protiens instead, but that doesn't seem to help. I've tried taking iron as my doctor recommended but that only helps on a limited level. I seem to need to eat at least 6 oz of red meat a day in order to feel any kind of energy. I thought over time as they got the anemia under control that this would go away, but it hasn't. When I don't eat the red meat I get very weak and start to feel sick to my stomach. No one seems to know exactly why this is happening to me not even my doctors, but it is and well I guess what I want to know is how this problem is handled in respect to the whole Rede rule?

Although meant for those of the same belief system I did want to throw in this that might help. As I understand it, Kosher preparations are less painful for the animal. It's also healthier in that things like 'mad cow disease' have a greatly reduced chance (I won't go into the explicit details as to why here, U2U me if interested) of getting into the meat itself. The only reasons why I haven't gone strict kosher are because of saturated fat (not as trimmed), cost and availability. Okay, I'm done, now for those whom enchantress was actually addressing .

[edit on 14-5-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by enchantress62

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Not all Wiccans are vegetarians. I think personally plants have feelings too! And so, I think what might be best for you is to find a provider of meat that you know treats the animals humane, and just do like ancient people and modern and primitive tribes...just thank God/dess for the meat, bless it, thank the animals, and the plants...they know you need to eat! So do they. Once they are dead they are in a better place, and also they could be reincarnating. I don't think its bad to eat meat if its with respect.

reply to post by enchantress62

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Hi enchantess62, long time no type.

I understand what yo're saying from a Wiccan perspective and the fact that my youngest son is a diabetic too. So here's my take on the dilemma;

The Rede ... 'And it harm none, so mote it be'.

Because of your health issues ... for you NOT to eat meat would mean you were breaking the Rede ('and it harm none'), because you would be harming yourself !

Eating meat in general (in connection with the Rede);

I am not a vegetarian but having said that I rarely eat meat becauseI'm not particularly keen on it ... but occasionally feel my body needs it.
Personally, I believe if an animal is killed (humanely) for food ... it's no different to any other member of the animal kingdom killing for food and sustanance ... it's natural !

Yes, we could cut meat out of our diet completely ... in the same way a Great White Shark could cut-out meat and live on plankton and aquati vegetation.
Or a Lion could stop eating zebra and wilderbeest and live on roots, berries and pampas grass.

Would that be natural ?

I think everything in moderation is acceptable and certainly when your health depends on it.

However, killng animals for sport is simply deplorable and barbaric.

Woody

reply to post by blowfishdl

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Hey there 'blowfishdl',

You said,
'Don't mess with what you don't know' ... and I agree 100%.

But then you go on to say,
'someone like a Wiccan doing ridiculous rituals and ceremonies may conjure-up such force, they have no control over it and it would essentially be endangering to us all'.

Ok, I'm sorry I don't mean to laugh but you don't really believe that do you ?

First of all if you DO believe it, I think you must be confusing Wiccans & Witches with Satanists (very different creatures my friend ... very different creatures) !

I can only assume that you haven't read all the previous posts and have commented on the thread title alone. If you had read it all, you would realize how wrong you are.

Maybe you believe the Hollywood hype where Wiccans & Witches are
concerned ... maybe you heard too many fairytales as a child about wicked witches trying to trap innocent young princess' as they walked through the woods all alone (what were their parents thinking) ?

Either way your preconceptions of our faith is totally ignorant and extremely flawed.
As for your opinionated comments ... how rude and offensive you are.
I can only assume that you have never met a real-life Witch or Wiccan ... but that is no excuse for such a slur.

Would you call a Mass (Christianity) / Pesach (Judaism) / Hijja (Islam) / or any other religious beliefs practices ... ridiculous rituals and ceremonies ? ... I think not, so why would you possibly think it's ok to make such an abhorent statement about Pagan faiths ?

Might I suggest you read all the contributions posted by Wiccans and Witches ... and the great interaction we have had throughout the entire thread with the Christian people who have also contributed here.

You might find it a bit of a shock to hear that Wiccans and Witches DO believe in the same God that everyone else does (whatever name the call him/her/it).

Manners cost nothing ... and I promise you that in spite of your truly insulting comments ... you still don't warrant striking up the cauldron and turning you into a frog ... as appealing as it sounds at this moment 'we' are better than that.

As the site motto says 'Deny Ignorance' as a member of ATS pehaps you should give that some thought !!!

Woody

hhhmmm interesting statement. I'm curious what are you basing your opinion on? By the above statement I assume you picture us standing around a cauldron and calling forth demons and hehe "Satan" to do our bidding? Well I personally have never called upon any demons and we Wiccan's don't believe that Satan exists. Maybe a little research would be prudent before passing judgement on a whole religion.

That said I will acknowledge that as with any religion you should know how it works before practicing. I certainly wouldn't expect a Christian to practice Christianity without reading the Bible, or a Jewish person to practice without reading the Torah, etc...

As for hurting others with what forces we call up, well if you knew anything about our religion you would know that it is our purpose to use magick as a means to promote positive change, not hurt anyone, and those of us that take this religion seriously, do just that.

Although I understand the message above and agree one should know a bit before speaking, I did want to make one point of clarification.



Christianity isn't a practice, it's a belief. This is one reason why Christianity is different than the other ones listed. If you'd like to love God, accept Christ, and love one another without reading the Bible then I think you have the gist of what the Bible says anyway. The Bible just explains why and some suggestions as to how. Deeds won't earn a person's way to heaven. Deeds are a natural result that flow from those who are right with God.

It appears there are some misconceptions of what Christianity is...as well as Wicca

[edit on 14-5-2008 by saint4God]

For all of you who posted opinions on my red meat delema, thanks! I know that for me, it's a health issue, but the suggestions for eating such in respect to the animal's contribution to my health is valuable to me. Instead of feeling badly for eating it I will go forth and do research on where to buy the meat that has a human way of killing the animal and your suggestions for thanking the animal for it's death and it's contribution to my life seems so much better then feeling bad it died.

Again thanks everybody!

Hi Saint4God Good to talk with you again.

I respect the point you are trying to make but I disagree. All religions are based on a belief, and you may be a Christian that believes without practice for all I know, but many ppl are practicing it without really believing in it. I know, I was one of them. Christianity is a wonderful religion in that it get's ppl to come together in community and gives many a way to focus their lives causing positive change. I have nothing against Christianity. But to say that ppl can believe without practicing is idealistic. I know ppl, and so do you, that call themselves Christians who never go to church, never read the Bible, or participate in Christian conversations. When you talk with these ppl and ask, "Why do you call yourself Christian?" They never say "Because I believe Jesus died for my sins and therefore I know I'm saved." What they usually say is "Because I was raised a Baptist" or Catholic, or whatever. Practice is what gives us strength in our beliefs and without it the belief becomes fuzzy over time.

Likewise.



Ya, we're allowed to do that to each other :-D.



Be careful with that 'all' word. Many religions have rite of passage, which is to say you are not and whateveritarian (for example) unless you do something specific to achieve it.



Then they're not Christian. It's that simple. For those who are uncertain of that definition, that can be found in the Bible.



If I call myself a duck, am I a duck? In order for a label to have value, it must have definition. The definition is not "someone who goes to church, reads the Bible, and participates in Christian conversations".



Then they've given the wrong answer. Seems you know the right answer though. If you correct them on the definition, you'll have my thanks



This works for Judiasm, but you cannot be 'born' or 'raised' and therefore you are a Christian. A person's parents can raise a child in a Christian household, but whether that child chooses to believe is entirely their own choice.



Definately deeds have merit, not meaning to say they are without purpose, just stating they do not define a Christian. In fact, Biblically if you go around announcing your 'good deeds', they have a rather harsh word for ya...and it ain't 'Christian'.

Enjoying the discussion enchantress and am glad I had an opportunity to delve deeper into the topic.

[edit on 14-5-2008 by saint4God]