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All kids 'must' get flu vaccine: Fed Panel

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posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by undiscoveredsoul
 


Just to clarify things being called ignorant is not necessarily a bad thing unless you are ignorant as to the meaning of the word. For instance I am ignorant of many things if I were not ignorant of many things I would be learned on everything. In reference to what Fred was saying it is believed that you are ignorant or unlearned as to what is in the vaccines and the studies surrounding them.
Personally I have not seen a convincing study on either side as to the full safety of the vaccines that are NOW required. As to the HPV vaccine they changed the mandatory ruling about it (due to the ties that were made to Merek) though it is still recommended.

On the other hand calling someone a moron is a personal attack on them and is considered a bad thing. Being a moron is a word once used to describe those who suffer extreme learning disabilities and lowered social skills.

As to the flu vaccine I have already mentioned that I personally have seen no significant difference in those who have gotten it and those who do not. I believe our immune systems should be left to the flu. For things like Small Pox though, I would go for a vaccine, but that is due to the fact that the vaccine is much safer than the virus.

Raist



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 02:46 PM
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Let me make this CLEAR since some people obviously can't read perfect English....

I KNOW the article said that children SHOULD be vaccinated not MUST!

My comment was IF IT WAS MADE MANDATORY My children would NOT be recieving THIS vaccine... go back up and read my initial post, I stated that my children have ALL the vaccines the government has thus far required therfore your stupid drivel about them catching some "easily preventable disease" is NIL on those counts...

My comment applies only to THIS flu vaccine, gardasil and any "new" vaccines thatMAY become mandatory in the future...



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 02:49 PM
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reply to post by Raist
 



Well that might be how you see being called ignorant, but to me it means the same as calling someone STUPID or a MORON so as I said tit for tat... I took it as an attack and to be totally IMMATURE and irrevelant to thread ...


HE STARTED IT!!!

* Sticking my tongue out and wagging my fingers in my ears*

Lord I hope some of these people have a sense of humor....



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Why do we even need flu vaccinations? I think we are kind of being sold a false protection and exaggerated expectation of what the flu vaccine can actually do. Unless you are a tiny infant, a very old person or someone with some type of medical problem getting the flu is not life threatening. From reading this post I can see a certain misunderstanding of the vaccination - posters talking about getting a shot and then still getting the flu. This is not because the flu shot gave gave the flu to these people it is because flu shots only cover a small percentage of flu strains. And the flu viruses mutate every year. There is always a new flu strain out there that is not covered by the vaccination. Flu shots also are not instant cures. They take a few weeks before they even have an effect. Get the flu before that and you are still screwed. Everyone on this planet could take a flu shot and guess what? The flu would still run through a large percentage of the population. The people most at risk of dying from the flu are not children - they are the elderly.




[edit on 28-2-2008 by zerotime]



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by undiscoveredsoul
Let me make this CLEAR since some people obviously can't read perfect English....I KNOW the article said that children SHOULD be vaccinated not MUST!


Excellent, it still does not explain why you fail to see the points I have made, but hey you can lead the horse to the H2O, but making him drink....... thats another issue in an of itself eh?



My comment was IF IT WAS MADE MANDATORY My children would NOT be recieving THIS vaccine... go back up and read my initial post,


My reasons apply in both scenarios regarding your intent NOT to vaccinate your child(s)



I stated that my children have ALL the vaccines the government has thus far required therfore your stupid drivel about them catching some "easily preventable disease" is NIL on those counts...


Stupid? Drivel? Hardly, but if you feel the need to go all ad hominem in your last 2 posts here, then perhaps your argument is not as strong as you thought eh? Maybe you should calm down, and rethink how to better defend your position without resulting to the personal attacks




My comment applies only to THIS flu vaccine, gardasil and any "new" vaccines thatMAY become mandatory in the future...


Im curious as to how you are making this distinction between old and new. So are you saying you would not vaccinate a new child all? Or just not from say a future mandatory influenza vaccine or a cervical cancer vaccine?



[edit on 2/28/08 by FredT]



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 03:01 PM
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I'll throw in this bit of information also. My wife is a nurse working for Columbus Children's hospital. The hospital employees get flu shots every year - if they want them - my wife turns them down. If an employee refuses the shot they have to sign paperwork saying they refused it. If they accept the shot they had to sign a waiver that said they were told that getting this flu shot 3 years in a row may increase their risk of getting Alzheimers disease later in life.


Flu now or Alzheimers later? hmm. Tough decision.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by zerotime
 


As a nurse myself its mandated for health care workers in the State of California. But you can also sign a waiver.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by undiscoveredsoul
 


So than we can agree that you are ignorant as to the meaning of the word ignorant? Or are you choosing to remain ignorant on purpose?
Ok just for you I will post the definitions of the three words you chose to use.

Stupid: lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
dictionary.reference.com...

Moron: Psychology. a person of borderline intelligence in a former classification of mental retardation, having an intelligence quotient of 50 to 69.
dictionary.reference.com...

Ignorant: lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
dictionary.reference.com...


By the way though it is off topic of the thread here are some articles about the HPV vaccine not being mandatory:
www.washingtonpost.com...

www.cbsnews.com...

www.fiercehealthcare.com...

As to the flu vaccine since it is not as reliable as other vaccines go and due to its complete vulnerability in its creation process I do not see it ever being mandatory. Any time they are guessing on what the top strains of the virus will be you will not get a good enough chance for it to be mandatory. And seeing how there was a recall some years back on the flu vaccine because it is vulnerable in comparison to other vaccines I will stick with it not being mandatory.

aapnews.aappublications.org...

www.usatoday.com...

www.washingtonpost.com...

And one on Merek’s reliability on vaccines.
www.emaxhealth.com...

Again it is doubtful the flu vaccine will ever be made mandatory. They will recommend it and many will follow suit thinking it is a demand but they are failing to actually hear or read what is really being said.
Raist



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 03:06 PM
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Originally posted by zerotime

I'll throw in this bit of information also. My wife is a nurse working for Columbus Children's hospital. The hospital employees get flu shots every year - if they want them - my wife turns them down. If an employee refuses the shot they have to sign paperwork saying they refused it. If they accept the shot they had to sign a waiver that said they were told that getting this flu shot 3 years in a row may increase their risk of getting Alzheimers disease later in life.


Flu now or Alzheimers later? hmm. Tough decision.



I'd love to see that form.

Why in the world would anybody (not at medical risk from the flu) get vaccinated once if only after 3 years of shots you could have an increased risk of alzheimers? Thats crazy.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 03:11 PM
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If it does not grow in the garden, it is not entering my body.

Sri Oracle



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 03:15 PM
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reply to post by ATruGod
 


Probably for the same reason that some of those nurses smoke, even though they know that smoking may cause cancer. And to add to the insanity my wife works with those nurses on the oncology (cancer) floor. Imagine working around kids who are suffering with cancer all day and then going home and having a smoke. lol

I'll see if my wife can get one of these forms. I asked her about it for the specific purpose of posting it here on ATS. I knew some people would get a kick out of it. My wife said that the forms had to be signed in her manager’s office. I’m not going to ask her to do anything that would get her fired like stealing one of these forms, but if there is a legal way to get one I will ask her to do it.


[edit on 28-2-2008 by zerotime]



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 04:06 PM
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"Super Moderators" calling other members ignorant.
Ok then.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 04:28 PM
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Its a choice.

It will always be a choice, its also the Flu, yes a deadly illness, but at the same time one we have delt with for many years, Some people are naturaly at higher risk to die from such, but the rest its like a full body cold. With rest, proper hydration and positive surroundings, our bodies fight that like a tank vers a cardboard box.

Also I have 250,000.00 USD in medical bills an have been to Every major Hospital on the east coast. For my Digestion problems, and they still after 5 years and 250 grand in the hole they still dunno what is causing me to get sick everytime I eat, or what is causing the ripping of my flesh when I wretch.

thats just my story an experience but it weighs heavily apon me giving my kids or myself shots that dont cover all the flu an that will make you sick with Vomiting ( I have to not vomit or else im going to die ( seriously ) ) Also these shots have been linked to mental problems in some cases, and for a developing mind, Im not sure introducing anything that doesnt come from the mother natualy shouldnt be given unless there is a need, Our children have had the flu an all have handled it like champs. We are homeschooling for different reasons but still got all the vacs that were needed to prevent the Major DD's.

Thats just my stance again not everyone is effected like I am, But statisticly there are prolly more somewhat like me. No one is ignorant just worried about having to take something that visualy doesnt look like its working,

*****************************And on any note, why must people here Talk down to others, its not like they were raised like you, grew up with you, had your mommy or daddy or your brain or your experiences, Just agree to disagree and move on or debate your subject without being rude or disrespectful, We are all humans here an we all have emotions lets try to be kind to that an treat others with dignity an respect. ************************************************


Here drink my yellow juice it prevents you from Floating away.... WOW since drinking your juice I havent floated away since!



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 04:57 PM
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I have flu shots every year, sometimes its works sometimes it dose not, but I need them. What I do find strange is that there are millions, yes millions of people who want health shots just so they can live yet here we have outraged Americans saying they wont have them or wont allow their kids to have them.

I thought the first responsibility of a parent was to ensure that their children came to no harm obviously that is lost on many parents here. If the Goverment wanted top get chips into us and I'm sure they do there is a hundred ways to do it. Denying yourself or your children protection from disease its not the best way to go about it.

If anyone is that concerned they can have the vaccines anaylised if they want to.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
I have flu shots every year, sometimes its works sometimes it dose not, but I need them. What I do find strange is that there are millions, yes millions of people who want health shots just so they can live yet here we have outraged Americans saying they wont have them or wont allow their kids to have them.

I thought the first responsibility of a parent was to ensure that their children came to no harm obviously that is lost on many parents here. If the Goverment wanted top get chips into us and I'm sure they do there is a hundred ways to do it. Denying yourself or your children protection from disease its not the best way to go about it.

If anyone is that concerned they can have the vaccines anaylised if they want to.


Are you a Parent?

My first responsibility is to my children. That doesnt mean taking them to the doctor every time theres some new "Vaccine", part of my job is to make sure I'm not being fed a load of crap about what they wanna put in my kids.




Denying yourself or your children protection from disease its not the best way to go about it.


Following blindly like a sheep is what they are hoping we will all do. It appears your moving along just fine.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 05:06 PM
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Originally posted by FredT

Your child cannot attend public schools schools. You are stuck with home schools or maybe an Amish school if there are any in your area.


How can something NOT be mandatory . YET you cant enroll your kids in school without it ? Sounds like enforcement of a mandatory. You called him ignorant yet you contradict yourself in that post .

I thought the flu vaccine was meant to GIVE you the flue at a young age so you could fight it off later on when your older. Building an immunity to it .
I may be way off base . Just what i always thought .


I would just pay off the doctor your kids go to (pediatrician?). Slip him a 50$ and say thanks for the shot. Or talk him into giving you the slip before the shot. If he's a family doc. And or birthed your child . He may just trust you to bring them in and get it .
Which of course you have no intention of doing .


I know if i can find a doctor every other week to cut me a script for whatever i need at 50$ a visit . Someone will hook you up with a form and a signature for around that .




[edit on 28-2-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]

[edit on 28-2-2008 by oLDWoRLDDiSoRDeR]



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 05:13 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom

I thought the first responsibility of a parent was to ensure that their children came to no harm obviously that is lost on many parents here. If the Goverment wanted top get chips into us and I'm sure they do there is a hundred ways to do it. Denying yourself or your children protection from disease its not the best way to go about it.



I think that statement is taking things a little too far. Refusing to get an immunization for an illness that we've dealt with for many years generally with no problems....is not putting our kids in front of a speeding truck.

If you're saying that if a child gets the flu it's because their parents are not ensuring their safety, then I'm guessing that you must keep your children (if you have any or are planning to have any) at home in a plastic bubble? There is no way to keep a child from getting these very common illnesses. Even by doctor's admissions, this vaccine is NOT a guarantee that you won't get the flu...so why bother?

Ever since they've come out with these flu shots every year in our city the flu advisory gets worse and worse. Many MANY people sitting in emergency rooms, out of work and school. How come the flu has mutated into such a deadly illness that it's now killing more people than ever whereas in the "good ol days" we threw up a bit, pooped a bit, had some chicken soup and got over it

Michelle



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 05:14 PM
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AT, yes I am a parent and when my children were young they got their jabs, and when they were ill they went to Hospital. What do you propose, to let your own fears and ignorance be the judge of your childs health and well being.

And as stated I do not have the luxury of good health, and rely daily on meds and health care. But that does not make me less suspicions or untrusting of the system it just means I have to use it to a point.

And again if they really wanted to chip us they can do it very easily.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 05:23 PM
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Mich, Why bother, well we bother becuase these viruses are killing more people each year, and if you read my post properly you will have read that I said it works and some times it does not. What you and others are preposing is the well we might have a fire at home and we might not but we wont by a fire extinguisher anyway.

No one is claiming that vacs are cure alls, but in the choice of life and death, good and ill health we choose life and good health. And there were no good days of we did this or that and just got on with it, thats rubbish. People died in droves from everything to Influenza to small pox. if you want to go back in time thats fine but dont ask you kids to do it.



posted on Feb, 28 2008 @ 05:33 PM
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Originally posted by magicmushroom
AT, yes I am a parent and when my children were young they got their jabs, and when they were ill they went to Hospital. What do you propose, to let your own fears and ignorance be the judge of your childs health and well being.

And as stated I do not have the luxury of good health, and rely daily on meds and health care. But that does not make me less suspicions or untrusting of the system it just means I have to use it to a point.

And again if they really wanted to chip us they can do it very easily.


Yes when my children were young they got thier jabs and yes when my youngest son almost died from his apendix rupturing guess what he did goto the hospital.

My own fears and ignorance...man did you just call me ignorant?

It would be ignorant to give my child a vaccine that may not do anything but get them sick. Its a feaking crap shoot, and this is one I don't want to roll the dice on.

Btw I dont believe they could "chip" us as easily as you believe.




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