Hey, what IS "God"?

People are always asking for proof of "God" 's existence, but very rarely does anyone consider what such a thing (God) must really be. Your attention is always led away from this question in big religion.

I think proving if "god" exists, is not the rewarding activity of spirituality, or even the right question to ask for the skeptic (what is he skeptical of, again?). I think what you really want, is to figure out what "god" really is, scrapping whatever ideas you may have become attached to if they don't seem to give you a good resolution. The best answers are abstract and not easily communicable (if at all). The Gnostics were a group of early Christians that were aware of this.

Here are some ideas I play with; what do you think of these?:

◘ God isn't a human.

◘ It doesn't have a gender.

◘ It doesn't "sit" anywhere in particular. (ie a throne.)


If we can agree with these I'll go so far as to throw this in too:

◘ It doesn't have emotional outbursts or pass judgments. People do. (Of course churches will contest this one.)


But enough of trying to prove it. What is it, and how do you know? Who told you?

[edit on 28-2-2008 by bsbray11]

For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord. As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts. ( Isaiah 55: 8-9)

One thing is for sure in regard to God, if we are going to "attempt" to arrive at any conclusion regarding Him, we most definitely can not limit Him by placing Him into a religous box, confining who He is.

Try thinking of God as less of an external figure, and more of an internal one.

I believe that consciousness is the basis of reality, which would make all of us one, and therefore God as well.

God = "I am that I am"
Define it passed that and you get an idol. And the world gets a mess and destroys itself over what God is and what God wants.

The unknowable is known through its creation.

peace

dAlen

reply to post by Kruel


I couldn't agree more.

But moreso God = Energy!

"God" is the name some people have given their own ignorance, the terra incognita that lies past the horizons of their own limited knowledge. Instead of saying, "I don't know," they've called it God and worship it and fool their children to worship it so their ignorance will have company when they are old and near death, the physical embodiment of the unknown.

A few childish representations and myths have grown up around limited conceptualizations of this thing, but otherwise, it has no particular coherent meaning.

Originally posted by ATruGod
I couldn't agree more.
But moreso God = Energy!

Really? But if you think about it, is God also NOT energy? Is God not an irrational number? The square root of negative one? Both black and white, simultaneously?

Except for a few clunky myths and children's crayon drawings of a big bearded Grandpa in the Sky, the concept makes no sense, is inherently self-nullfying, and cannot be rationally debated. An omnipotent entity that paradoxically has a motivation (or ability) to create? How can something that is everything create anything more? Once there is everything, that's all there is. Or why would it ever feel a lack, and need to create anything more, even if it could? An entity, with distinct point of view, that still encompasses the entirety of existence? Paradox. Nullification.

What God is differs from belief to belief. Some believe God is an unfathomable eternal being, some believe the universe is a god, some believe human beings are all gods, some believe all things are god, etc.

Of course, we know the universe exists, we exist, and things exist. So their burden of proof switches from existence to how do you know what you believe to be a god is a god. Then for beliefs that God is an actual being, we are left speculating not so much about what He is but 'is' He at all?

It's a question that can only be answered based on the philosophy of the belief. As a Christian, I believe God is an actual being.

Originally posted by Nohup
But if you think about it, is God also NOT energy?

What is "NOT energy"? Can you name anything in existence that exists without energy? Consider that "not energy" is just an abstract and meaningless concept you have created out of your head. What have you just done?

Originally posted by bsbray11

Originally posted by Nohup
But if you think about it, is God also NOT energy?

What is "NOT energy"? Can you name anything in existence that exists without energy? Consider that "not energy" is just an abstract and meaningless concept you have created out of your head. What have you just done?

You know, the spaces in space where there isn't anything. The teensy little space between the electron and the nucleus. And maybe zero point kind of bubbles with photons popping in and out of virtuality, but what about the zero point itself, the flat dimensional surface average of space where nothing is zooming in or out. Those spaces. That would be like the complete cessation of energy. No movement or transfer on any level. Is "God" that, too?

P.S. -- Oh, also, if there really was a Big Bang, like the science boys all say, then it has a kind of "shock wave" at the front edge as it continues to expand out into infinity. Whatever is on the other side (past the leading edge) of that shock wave is a region of space where there is no energy or space, since it hasn't gotten that far yet. That, too.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Nohup]

Originally posted by Nohup
You know, the spaces in space where there isn't anything.

I'm not convinced that isn't another meaningless idea. Even scientists making up things like "dark energy" and "dark matter" realize that some energy must go into keeping things differentiated as they are in a 3D environment.

Whatever is on the other side (past the leading edge) of that shock wave is a region of space where there is no energy or space, since it hasn't gotten that far yet.

So then it doesn't exist, but I was asking about things that do exist.

Originally posted by bsbray11
So then it doesn't exist, but I was asking about things that do exist.

Let me try to explain it in another way. Suppose you have two photons (or any subatomic particle you choose, including those wiggly "strings"). Are they different? That is, do they have separate existences, or are they the same thing? Because I am of the opinion that while the Universe might be a singular and complete entirety, there are many different and separate things within it. You might have a different opinion.

Now, if there are different and separate things in the universe, then what would you say is between those things? What "exists" between the things (photons, strings, etc.) that makes them separate?

I suggest that there is non-energetic void between the smallest of things that ultimately separates them from each other. Otherwise, as stated above, there would be only one thing, with no differentiation. In fact, NO THING (nothing), is absolutely necessary for there to be more than just one thing in this universe.

So if one was to say that God is "everything" in the universe, then it would also be necessary to be all of the physical universe, but also the parts of the universe where there are no things (including engergetic things like photons). Unfortunately, this does create a problem. Because if God is so all-inclusive, to encompass not only all the stuff in the universe, but also the non-stuff that makes the stuff possible, then it would be impossible for such an entity to create anything. Because everything in existence, as well as everything that doesn't exist, is already accounted for, and you have another self-nullifying paradox. Nothing can be added or subtracted.

What you're left with, I suppose, is to define God as a kind of trans-dimensional entity that somehow exists in spite of the paradoxes and irrationality, which would naturally make it completely and entirely beyond the scope of human understanding on any level, whether it be emotional, mathematical, rational or whatever else you have. That, however, sure depersonalizes the thing. It's hard to imagine something like a trans-dimensional electromagnetic wave or field having a sincere personal interest in making sure your dead Grandma goes to Heaven.

And, not only that, but with this God thing/non-thing so utterly beyond our comprehension, the question arises as to where the line is drawn between incomprehensible and non-existent. Can we functionally discuss or debate something that we don't understand in any way? I don't see where that's even possible. We can use cheap proxies. We can debate about God being a white-robed bearded old dude in the sky. But we can't debate or discuss what is beyond our understanding. Even our fundamental concepts of "existence" or "non-exsistence" fall short in that case.

And... we've gotten nowhere. Again. Happens in each and every "God" discussion.

God is hungry, and wants a turkey on rye.

First one who delivers gets a free saving! Act now!

Originally posted by Nohup
Now, if there are different and separate things in the universe, then what would you say is between those things? What "exists" between the things (photons, strings, etc.) that makes them separate?

I believe this is the stuff modern theoretical physicists label things like "vacuum energy" and "dark energy," and like I mentioned in my last post, I think the suggestion is that energy is involved in keeping our sense of 3D space.

(Answer to your question: Not necessarily nothing. At least, if you think so, that is solely your opinion. All the pictures you have seen of atoms consisting of balls of two different kinds of energy were merely conceptual and should be taken as such.)

So if one was to say that God is "everything" in the universe, then it would also be necessary to be all of the physical universe, but also the parts of the universe where there are no things (including engergetic things like photons). Unfortunately, this does create a problem. Because if God is so all-inclusive, to encompass not only all the stuff in the universe, but also the non-stuff that makes the stuff possible, then it would be impossible for such an entity to create anything. Because everything in existence, as well as everything that doesn't exist, is already accounted for, and you have another self-nullifying paradox. Nothing can be added or subtracted.

Sounds to me like you've only gotten your own head in a knot. If everything already exists (as it does right now), and then something changes ("added" or "subtracted" depending on your perspective), then is it still "everything" since it has changed? Isn't "everything" just a word? Don't things just change from moment to moment, constantly? Can't that be creation?

What you're left with, I suppose, is to define God as a kind of trans-dimensional entity that somehow exists in spite of the paradoxes and irrationality, which would naturally make it completely and entirely beyond the scope of human understanding on any level, whether it be emotional, mathematical, rational or whatever else you have.

Well this is the point where you can be sure we aren't talking about the same concept, because the thing I have in mind would entirely comprehend human experience on every level.

[edit on 29-2-2008 by bsbray11]

i would say, learn what man is before one goes searching for that answer. That question cannot truly be answered. yet at the same time, you can easily say "everyhing".

I've always pictured God as a mischievious badger!

No no. I believe there is some sort of supreme creator. Some superunknown that is irrelevant to religion, and can't be explained in simple words and phrases. I believe in something I wouldn't even stretch to give a name to, but for representative purposes, I'll go with God.

People believe in Jehovah, Yahweh, Lord, Jesus, Jah, Shiva, etc. What does it all mean? Nothing. Religion is tireless and worn out. But what is "God"? I can't answer. It's a continuum out there. There is no explanation, and there is no set of rules for human existence.

There are people who throw everything down and say "Oh, well, we're just not MADE to understand these things!". But why not? Aren't we entitled to expand our horizons as much as possible? Is it not human nature to be inquisitive of surroundings and possibilities? So we must have been made to have comprehensible capacity.

So "God" is what it is: ? A mysterious, unknown myriad of possibilites.

Maybe "God" is a unicorn. Conceivable, but can we prove the unicorn's existence/nonexistence? NO!

God is Oneness Above, Below, In, Out, Beyond and After.

One in All, Which does Seven.

God is the creator of earth and heavens. He creat Adam and you.

He creat laws and brought to us his Son Jesus. God is a powerful spirit and has a body lives in heaven and his spirit runs in his children. God is all powerful and knows all.

Originally posted by slymattb
God is a powerful spirit and has a body

Why would the ultimate source of everything that exists have some kind of external order imposed on it to where it had to have a body and be a "spirit"? Who tells your god that? And is he powerful enough to create a rock that even he can't lift yet?

Okei Guys , Brothers and Sisters (^^,) TO ALL THE PEOPLE in THE WHOLE WORLD.

2 Timothy 3:15-16

15and that (A)from childhood you have known (B)the sacred writings which are able to (C)give you the wisdom that leads to (D)salvation through faith which is in (E)Christ Jesus.

16(F)All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;





Here's a Small part scenery in the BIBLE.

In those days, Israel didn't have a king, people did what was right in their own eyes. Judges 17:6

Question:

IS AN "ANGEL” also a god?

Answer:

No. But during the time of Moses and the Patriarch, angels were also called gods, but they are not real gods. It is written in Galatians 4:8-9 …

“Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?”

Saint Paul said to the early Christians, “Howbeit then, ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods”. Which are these gods whom they believed to be true god? Let us read the scenes in Judges 6:22…

“And when Gideon perceived that he was an angel of the LORD, Gideon said, Alas, O LORD God! for because I have seen an angel of the LORD face to face.”

When Gideon saw the angel of God he said, “Alas, oh Lord God,” the angel they believe to be god is really not god.





Gideon showed humility when he told the Lord that he didn't think that he could save Israel because his family was the least of the tribes and that he was the least of his family.

Gideon showed caution by asking for a sign that he really was the one to deliver Israel.

Gideon showed his spirituality by building an altar to worship the Lord.

Gideon showed his obedience by tearing down the idols in his own country.

Gideon showed his loyalty to God by not ruling over the people when they asked him to because of his victory at war.


I hope you all get the Message

I have words to say to you my friend
Is it hard to know what’s right from wrong
Have you ever felt your life so self assured
You don’t know the things that you’ve done wrong
And then we’ll say
We’ll rip out our covers
Shake the walls until they break
I’ll hold out my hand to you
Supreme love and respect
Peace man
At first it seems so daunting
How to start or how to grow
But make believe becomes a living
Cuz in life, in life you will know
Peace man http:





[edit on 8-3-2008 by johnb1]

[edit on 8-3-2008 by johnb1]