New Abu Ghraib Images (WARNING: very disturbing)

reply to post by ironman433


And why do you think thay want us dead, Ironman? Not because the US has been meddling in the Middle East for the last 50 years. It would be becasue the West loves "freedom," right? I suppose we also love the freedom to act like savages and torture "suspected" terrorists (ie: guys who had their country invaded for the oil and fought back). That is a fine freedom to you maybe, but I call it hell.

That took place two to three years ago. And those were Americans that was breaking law. By mistreating their prisoners. They had been expelled from the military. They are either waiting for trail or in prison.

It was on the news back then.

reply to post by Christian Voice


That doesn't sound like much of a Christian voice to me, but I suppose that is what modern hardline Christianity has become...no more than a justification to kill Muslims.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Silenceisall]

Originally posted by Christian Voice
Why does everyone focus on this prison so much? I'm sure that we have American citizens in prison for much less crimes that get treated much more harshly than this. Aren't we at war with these people?
I guess it's just the liberal mindset of this country now. We can murder unborn children but we can't kill murderers or torture terrorists for information that may save innocent lives. Give me a break people.

The US is there to provide democracy and 'free' the Iraqi people.If the US acted the same than there would be no difference between US and terrorists.

Some of these pics are worse than terrorist beheadings.Absalutely disgusting!

reply to post by kennethmd


I think it's still going on around the world in the name of freedom, friend.

That doesn't sound like much of a Christian voice to me, but I suppose that is what modern hardline Christianity has become...no more than a justification to kill Muslims.

I didn't say anything unChristian at all. We as mankind have been given authority to uphold God's laws and to punish those who break them. Get off the muslim thing good grief. These are the people we are at war with, radical extremist muslims. The terror groups ar muslim extremists. We are not at war with radical buddhists or radical Wiccans or Hindus.

reply to post by Silenceisall


they would still be living like savages if we hadn't taught them how to pump and refine oil. ask any one of them how they would like the idea of living like 3rd world savages again like they did 50yrs ago..
and this is the thanks we get.

reply to post by Christian Voice


Do you really think that you can know the mind of god, understand the "laws" of the universe or grasp the full scale of creation? That's more than a little arrogant I think. Modern religion makes a facile mess of true spirituality, which Jesus was an advocate of.

BTW, you sound like as much of a fundamentalist as any Muslim extreemist.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Silenceisall]

How do you figure silence? You are not making a very good arguement, just name calling.
So we should not be allowed to get information from prisoners of war? What are we supposed to do with them, give them xbox 360s and skittles?

reply to post by Christian Voice


This is how I figure: this whole prison abuse thing is less about the abuse and more about the unfounded and illegal occupation upon which it was (and is probably still is ) carried out. WMDs in Iraq were a lie, and an estimated 100,000 civilians and many American soldiers have died as a result. That is the issue that you should be focussing on. I would turn away from hate and fear my friend, they will do you no good in your fabled afterlife in heaven--also known as the multi-verse where your past deeds inhabit you.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Silenceisall]

Originally posted by Christian Voice
We as mankind have been given authority to uphold God's laws and to punish those who break them.

These are the people we are at war with, radical extremist muslims.

We aren't at war with 'extremist Muslims'. We are at war with ordinary citizens who want us out of their country. The extremist Muslim line is used exclusively by the government and those who are fooled by the government. The rest of us know better.


And by God's law, no man has the authority to exercise power. We are under God's authority. If a person is to be punished, (in God's eyes) then he will be punished. Strapping people into chairs and tearing up the Koran in front of them is not God's law, and God did not give us the authority to act like morons. He gave us free will, but he didn't hand us a gun and say, "It is your duty to kill extremist Muslims". That is no kind of law.

Originally posted by Christian Voice

That doesn't sound like much of a Christian voice to me, but I suppose that is what modern hardline Christianity has become...no more than a justification to kill Muslims.

I didn't say anything unChristian at all. We as mankind have been given authority to uphold God's laws and to punish those who break them. Get off the muslim thing good grief. These are the people we are at war with, radical extremist muslims. The terror groups ar muslim extremists. We are not at war with radical buddhists or radical Wiccans or Hindus.

I have a question, would you consider the Templar Knights of the Crusade era to be terrorists as well?? Killing innocent people who were not of their faith because of that very fact. It's just a question that I ask to all people of faith, that of which I am not a part. I ask it because we here in the United States call these "muslim radicals" terrorists while we parade around the world forcing our will on people through military strength instead of peaceful negotiations. The Templars killed innocent muslims and terrorized the people of lands that were not theirs, just as we are doing around the world.
Like I proposed earlier....What if the situation was reversed?? What if the Chinese, or any other powerful nation, decided to invade our country because of some fabricated lies about some "terror attack" on their country that they accused Americans of doing with NO evidence to back up their claims??(Those WMD's gotta be somewhere!) What would we do to the invaders if they came here and we didn't want them here..... WE WOULD ATTACK THEM BY ANY AND ALL MEANS NECESSARY!!
I am by no means on the side of the real terrorists out there who kill innocents without mercy or reason! But how can we stand here and be hypocritical about a group of people defending their lands from our invasion when we would do the same to any invaders of our lands.

Perhaps instead of waging WAR, we might try waging PEACE.....maybe it's just a dream for another time.....Cheers!


Purduegrad05

When will people realise that by thinking that if one person does something bad to you, you are entitled to do something equally bad to them is what keeps us living in such a violent society?

It makes me so so sad that people are willing to advocate torture, abuse and dehumanisation all the name of '...well they'd do it to us...'

Is the ability to control oneself not what makes us different from the terrorists?
Is our compassion not what encourages and fosters a healthy democracy?
Why, oh why, do some people still hold such views which should have died out in the Middle Ages.

As a species we should be past this.

We have brains - we can think for ourselves. Why act like mindless beasts when we have the capacity for so much more?

The attitude from various members here frightens me, to be honest. It's your opinion, and you're entitled to it - but try thinking about things a little more.

Please.

EDIT TO ADD: I echo the above post.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by more_serotonin_pls]

Originally posted by more_serotonin_pls
It makes me so so sad that people are willing to advocate torture, abuse and dehumanisation all the name of '...well they'd do it to us...'

As a species we should be past this.

As a species, many of us are. The majority of us, that is.

As I said earlier, it is the 1/4 or minority of people who are willing to follow their governments into tyranny and who are foolish enough to regurgitate meaningless propoganda to excuse the brutalization of innocent people....

Unfortunately, they are the 1/4 that end up in office, and end up killing their country-men or ruining their country with out-dated thinking. They are the mind-controlled minority that the majority has to deal with daily.

And they are able to easily excuse the torture of others, innocent or not... based on pure suspicion. Meanwhile, the other 3/4 of us are capable of something called empathy and logic.

The people that we have in prison are not innocent people just defending their homes. The people attacking us in Iraq are not just innocent people defending their homes. These are the enemy. Good grief, we are trying to help the innocent people overcome the extremists that plague their country. I don't hate anyone silence. Get that straight. I have never said anything resembling that. War is hell people. I don't like the idea of war, but in some situations it seems unavoidable. Unfortunately in these countries like Iraq and Iran you can't just play monopoly and accomplish anything.

Originally posted by NewWorldOver

As a species, many of us are. The majority of us, that is.

I think that many of us are.

However, I have a sickening feeling that that the next generation - the current 10-15 year olds are not.

From experience of them, many of them are extremely aggressive and use violence at the drop of a hat - makes you wonder about the politicians and warmongers of 30 - 40 years time, doesn't it?

reply to post by Christian Voice


Does it matter if someone is innocent or not?

They still do not deserve inhuman treatment. End of story.

Do unto others...I believe the saying goes.

Originally posted by Christian Voice
The people that we have in prison are not innocent people just defending their homes. The people attacking us in Iraq are not just innocent people defending their homes. These are the enemy.

If they aren't defending their homes, what are they doing? Do they just happen to live in the areas where they are fighting? I guess that's just a coincidence....

if a foreign country invaded my hometown and I started killing them, I would call it defense of my home. I could care less what anyone else had to say about it.

By the way, the people attacking 'us' in Iraq are not attacking you. You are not fighting them. Neither is Bush, or any other propoganda slinger.

America has already disowned this war.... all the people saying 'WE' and 'OUR enemy' are fricken clueless.

my question is,

i wonder if the corpse in the pic of the girl smiling and thumbing up inches away from a charred corpse arrived in that state, if that was a live detainee killed and burned, or a detainee who died's body, maybe just a dead body they had sitting around.

if that was a live detainee they burnt that would be incredibly messed up..

Abu Ghraib is old history. Those who did wrong have been tried and convicted. Why are some of you acting like that is not true. You should do some research. Abu Ghraib is no more and this reads like this is going on there today. More than disingenuous. Now its just spiteful and hateful and serves no purpose. Just like this thread serves no purpose nor does it bring a single new bit of information to the table. Is it just that people enjoy the pictures for some sick reason?