Who Built the Moon?

Actually, I think it would be incredible to produce hard, verifiable evidence of an artificial Moon. AND, this is not intended to be sarcastic. I mean, real proof would shake science to its core.

But...as I consider the possibility, I can't help but be reminded of an old TV show, from the 1970s I think, called 'Space: 1999'

It starred Barbara Bain and Martin Landau, recently just off their gig at 'Mission: Impossible' after it was cancelled, or more correctly, re-formulated and re-cast...(remember Leonard Nimoy worked there for a brief stint, after 'Star Trek?).

Anyway, the silly premise of 'Moon: 1999' was something about the Moon breaking out of orbit and the inhabitants of the existing colony struggling to survive...Can't remember the details, it was a forgettable show. Seem to think it sprang up because of Kubrick's '2001: A Space Odyssey'.

Could this be the genesis for these other theories re: our Moon??

What utter nonesense. Sometimes I find the lack any rational thought on this board deeply disturbing. ATS has definitley gone off in the last few years. Anyhow...

Originally posted by rikriley
Quite the contrary I believe a breathable atmosphere exists on the planet Moon as does John Lear
[edit on 2-3-2008 by rikriley]

Well that proves it then! If John Lear says so...I'm converted!!!

Originally posted by rikriley
you will go to www.thelivingmoon.com page 224 Zorgon has an interesting discussion about a possible atmosphere on the Moon. Go to AS8-12-2225 more cloud cover on the Moon...
[edit on 2-3-2008 by rikriley]

More recycled nonsense and fantastical claims. By the way, the Transient Lunar Phenomena has been greatly exageraated by some of your friends interpretations. Anyhow, I wasn't asking them I was asking YOU. It is interesting that several people have asked you some very good questions and you can't answer them. Not suprising really.

If you could just explain why this atmopshere around the Moon does not show itself (scattering star light, obscuring lunar featurres...) we can get somewhere. Reusing other peoples flawed arguments and conspiracy theory makes for a pointless discussion.

Living Moon indeed...



[edit on 3-3-2008 by timelike]

reply to post by timelike


I'll admit, this thread was on my 'ATS' list, but at the bottom becuase of no recent posts...so, I'm posting to re-activate it!

Who Built the Moon? What an amazing concept!!!

Apollo missions brought back hundreds of pounds of Lunar samples, and amazingly!! It is determined that the samples are just regular rocks...undamaged by the forces of erosion that occur on Earth, of course. Mostly basalt, some are results of ancient volcanic events.....

SO...is the Moon an alien spaceship? Or is it just a natural occurence, something formed 4 BILLION years ago, as the Solar System was stabilizing.

You decide!

Best, Tim/WW

[spelling...]

[edit on 28-3-2008 by weedwhacker]

Hmmmm this debate kinds of reminds me of that classic star trek episode For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky
when the crew finds an asteriod appears to be an asteriod but is in fact a spaceship hollowed out on the inside.

Originally posted by timelike
You see, it's this kind of nonsense that really stops a lot of intelligent people entering discussions about ET life. As usual we shal deal with the points one at a time:

Originally posted by rikriley
The planet we call our Moon was put in place to control and nurture life on the sister planet Earth by what we would call alien beings. The pictorials from the planet Moon tell a story of what type of life exists above and below the surface.

Great theory!!! Could you please explain how this obvious pictorials on "Planet Moon" show such a thing? I have been looking at the Moon with various telescopes as well as many lunar pictures taken from various spacecraft for many years, and have seen nothing like this. If you could explain these great leaps in understanding that would be helpful.

Originally posted by rikriley
A breathable atmosphere indeed front and far side of the planet Moon. You are told this can not be possible, a breathable atmosphere and certainly life does not exist. ...

Really? Would you care to explain why the features on the lunar surface are crystal sharp, while those features of planets with atmospheres are obscured? Why is there no weather on the Moon? Why do we see none of the dynamical changes and effects of an atomosphere on the Moon? Why are Lunear atompsheric effects strangley absent during lunar and solar eclipses or indeed in general at all?

Originally posted by rikriley
Who controls your life on Earth?

Nature.

Originally posted by rikriley
If you are as free as you think you are why do you not know about life existing on the planet Moon?

Perhaps people should master thinking "inside the box" before they have a go at outside the box?



[edit on 1-3-2008 by timelike]

You say nonsense and I say it makes sense. Here is your great leap in understanding clean off the fog on your telescope and look for 3D holograms that the majority can not see and I can see on the surface of the Earth's Moon.

The reason you receive crystal clear and sharp images from your telescope is the oxygen is very low to the ground level and artificially produced on the Moon. I believe the greys use the mineral ilmenite to provide the planet Moon with, yes you read it right breathable oxygen. What most humans on Earth do not realize is that approximately 45% of the lunar rocks as well as the soil is made up of good old oxygen.

I believe the nuclear reactors that are on the Moon presently help generate enough oxygen to supply the surface areas as well as inside the grey's hollow Moon base by heating the ilmenite and extracting the oxygen.

Furthermore I believe the Moon has a climate control system internally in place and circulates oxygen inside and outside the Moon. I believe the greys are tens of thousands of years ahead of us technologically and make it happen for the Moonbies, humanoid hybrids living inside and on the surface of the Moon. Oh by the way who needs weather on the Moon when there is no need or reason to contend with the weather.

I hope I clarified these great leaps of understanding for you and can not wait to hear what you have to say. Inside and outside the box. Rik Riley











[edit on 28-3-2008 by rikriley]

I don't believe in UFOs and frequent visits to planet Earth by intelligent extraterrestrials.

But you have to admit there is something odd about the moon.

For example, the fact that its disc, seen from earth, is just the right size to blot out the sun during eclipses (and thus help teach us astronomy and celestial mechanics).

Maybe it was put there by our alien mentors to show us the way to the stars.

It's quite an old idea among science-fiction fans. The film 2001: A Space Odyssey (Vale, Sir Arthur!) is based on an extrapolation of it. I first encountered the idea of this power of the moon to draw humanity's attention heavenward in a great novel called The Palace of Eternity by Bob Shaw.

You know, reading good science fiction is one of the best prophylactics there is against the Conspiracy Paranoia Bug.

Why does the full moon cause many people (including myself) to get a little wacked out? Any scientific explanations?

The lunar effect

Originally posted by WEOPPOSEDECEPTION
Why does the full moon cause many people (including myself) to get a little wacked out? Any scientific explanations?

Interesting question. There is wide popular acceptance for the 'lunar effect', but is it real? The police in Kentucky and Toledo, Ohio, agree that it is, as do the police in Brighton, England. Many studies, however, refute this view. This site states that no correlation has been found between phases of the moon and the following:

-the homicide rate
-traffic accidents
-crisis calls to police or fire stations
-domestic violence
-births of babies
-suicide
-major disasters
-casino payout rates
-assassinations
-kidnappings
-aggression by professional hockey players
-violence in prisons
-psychiatric admissions [one study found admissions were lowest during a full moon]
-agitated behavior by nursing home residents
-assaults
-gunshot wounds
-stabbings
-emergency room admissions [but see]
-behavioral outbursts of psychologically challenged rural adults
-lycanthropy
-vampirism
-alcoholism
-sleep walking
-epilepsy

If there really is no visible correlation, it is unlikely that the supposed 'lunar effect' actually exists, so we can absolve whoever made the moon (if anyone did) from responsibility for human frailty.

I live in a country where every full moon day is a religious holiday. Thus most citizens are aware of roughly what phase the moon is in on any given night. That gives a fine basis for popular observations of the lunar effect, but none has been noticed.

Now, back on topic: who built the moon?

[edit on 30-3-2008 by Astyanax]

reply to post by Astyanax


Astyanax.

You said you live in a country where Every Full Moon is a Holiday?

Quite a claim, care to show us the details????

WW

Originally posted by timelike
Well that proves it then! If John Lear says so...I'm converted!!!

Yep. John Lear is wrong. His calculations are based on ONE Wernher von Braun's interview in Time Magazine. A single digit mistake in a magazine is not very surprising. The surface gravity on the Moon in not 65% of Earth's gravity. There is no dense atmosphere on the Moon, obviously.

Assuming John Lear to be a CIA disinformation agent, the opposite of what he says must be true. He says no aliens on the moon, human mining only. This means the moon is an alien base, with no human presence whatsoever.

If the Moon is artificial, it would have to be hollow. It makes sense for a spaceship hosting billions of aliens in a large underground base.

I'll create a new thread with the proof backed up with hard science! Should be tomorrow or next week-end.

[edit on 2008-4-7 by nablator]

The moon's gravitational pull affects water on earth. And since we are composed of 70% water, the moon affects us. I'm not sure how it affects us. But it would make sense to build a moon to control the species on the planet it orbits. But then, who would want to control us?

reply to post by curiousbeliever

This is a common misconception. The Moon attracts mass, not water. Of course, water is less firmly attached to the ground than rocks. Gravitational attraction of the Sun and the Moon creates the familiar ocean tides and the less familiar earth tides.

Originally posted by rikriley


You say nonsense and I say it makes sense. Here is your great leap in understanding clean off the fog on your telescope and look for 3D holograms that the majority can not see and I can see on the surface of the Earth's Moon.

Oh dear me! Your shocking lack of basic astronomy is truly bad! I doubt whether there can be any serious discussion with you. Still, on we go again...Do you know what a 3D hologram actually is? I know a few people who work in this field and they find your suggestions laughable. Where are you "holograms"? on the Lunar surface?

Incidentally, why hasn't the Lunar Laser Experiment been effected by this atmosphere on the Moon? It was put there by the Apollo astronauts and has worked very well since it was placed there. Did aliens just let them install it and continually use it?

Originally posted by rikriley
The reason you receive crystal clear and sharp images from your telescope is the oxygen is very low to the ground level and artificially produced on the Moon. I believe the greys use the mineral ilmenite to provide the planet Moon with, yes you read it right breathable oxygen. What most humans on Earth do not realize is that approximately 45% of the lunar rocks as well as the soil is made up of good old oxygen.

Utter Crap. What you don't seem to understand is that if you were to put Oxygen on the Lunar surface, it would occupy a distance above the Lunar surface dictated by gravity. You can't choose a height at which to put it! Moreover, it wouldn't matter where it was, the Oxygen would still act as a thick fluid with a different refractive index and bend the light. Incidentally, why must it be greys? You seem to know for a fact that
(a). Such Creatures exist.
(b). They are on the Moon,
(c). They have the same biochemical needs as us and a race which evolved on an alien world has to recreate earth like conditions to survive? Need I continue? It's all looking rather unlikely isn't it?

Originally posted by rikriley
I believe the nuclear reactors that are on the Moon presently help generate enough oxygen to supply the surface areas as well as inside the grey's hollow Moon base by heating the ilmenite and extracting the oxygen.

Why? If there are nuclear generators then there would be heat released. Such venting of heat would be visible in the IR spectrum. Why have no such things been seen? Could it be because they’re possibly not there?

Originally posted by rikriley

Furthermore I believe the Moon has a climate control system internally in place and circulates oxygen inside and outside the Moon. I believe the greys are tens of thousands of years ahead of us technologically and make it happen for the Moonbies, humanoid hybrids living inside and on the surface of the Moon. Oh by the way who needs weather on the Moon when there is no need or reason to contend with the weather.

You believe quite a lot don't you? All of this still boils down to the fact that if you take the light spectrum from the Moon there ARE NO OXYGEN atoms present in the spectrum! I've done this myself many times. So how are your greys
(a). Stopping Oxygen showing up in Spectroscopic analysis.
(b). Stopping all optical properties of an Oxygen atmosphere on the Moon
(c). Doing all this in the first place even if it were true?

Let's sum up now what your proposing:

"An ET race called the greys which evolved on another world have the same biochemistry as us, and have set up a base on the Moon. These creatures need Oxygen so they put an atmosphere on the Moon with nuclear generators. This atmosphere is unique in that it's chemical signature cannot unlike everything else in the Universe, be detected by spectroscopy. Moreover the effects of this atmosphere are completely invisible from earth based observers.
Once there, the aliens create hybrid Moonbies and alien clones to pass the time on Planet Moon..."

By the way, "weather" will be present whenever an atmosphere is present!

Originally posted by rikriley
I hope I clarified these great leaps of understanding for you and can not wait to hear what you have to say. Inside and outside the box. Rik Riley

You have done nothing of the sort. You're replies are nothing more than wild conjectures supported by sever misunderstandings of the basic principles of Physics and Astronomy, unfortunately this is all to common in today's world...













[edit on 11-4-2008 by timelike]

Originally posted by timelike

Originally posted by rikriley

You say nonsense and I say it makes sense. Here is your great leap in understanding clean off the fog on your telescope and look for 3D holograms that the majority can not see and I can see on the surface of the Earth's Moon.

Oh dear me!

Your shocking lack of basic astronomy is truly bad! I doubtwhether there can be any serious discussion with you. Still, on we go again...Do you know what a 3D hologram actually is? I know a few people who work in this field and they find your suggestions laughable. Where are you "holograms"? on the Lunar surface?

Incidentally, why hasn't the Lunar Laser Experiment been effected by this atmosphere on the Moon? It was put there by the Apollo astronauts and has worked very well since it was placed there. Did aliens just let them install it and continually use it?

Originally posted by rikriley
The reason you receive crystal clear and sharp images from your telescope is the oxygen is very low to the ground level and artificially produced on the Moon. I believe the greys use the mineral ilmenite to provide the planet Moon with, yes you read it right breathable oxygen. What most humans on Earth do not realize is that approximately 45% of the lunar rocks as well as the soil is made up of good old oxygen.

Utter Crap. What you don't seem to understand is that if you were to put Oxygen on the Lunar surface, it would occupy a distance above the Lunar surface dictated by gravity. You can't choose a height at which to put it! Moreover, it wouldn't matter where it was, the Oxygen would still act as a thick fluid with a different refractive index and bend the light. Incidentally, why must it be greys? You seem to know for a fact that
(a). Such Creatures exist.
(b). They are on the Moon,
(c). They have the same biochemical needs as us and a race which evolved on an alien world has to recreate earth like conditions to survive? Need I continue? It's all looking rather unlikely isn't it?

Originally posted by rikriley
I believe the nuclear reactors that are on the Moon presently help generate enough oxygen to supply the surface areas as well as inside the grey's hollow Moon base by heating the ilmenite and extracting the oxygen.

Why? If there are nuclear generators then there would be heat released. Such venting of heat would be visible in the IR spectrum. Why have no such things been seen? Could it be because they’re possibly not there?

Originally posted by rikriley

Furthermore I believe the Moon has a climate control system internally in place and circulates oxygen inside and outside the Moon. I believe the greys are tens of thousands of years ahead of us technologically and make it happen for the Moonbies, humanoid hybrids living inside and on the surface of the Moon. Oh by the way who needs weather on the Moon when there is no need or reason to contend with the weather.

You believe quite a lot don't you? All of this still boils down to the fact that if you take the light spectrum from the Moon there ARE NO OXYGEN atoms present in the spectrum! I've done this myself many times. So how are your greys
(a). Stopping Oxygen showing up in Spectroscopic analysis.
(b). Stopping all optical properties of an Oxygen atmosphere on the Moon
(c). Doing all this in the first place even if it were true?

Let's sum up now what your proposing:

"An ET race called the greys which evolved on another world have the same biochemistry as us, and have set up a base on the Moon. These creatures need Oxygen so they put an atmosphere on the Moon with nuclear generators. This atmosphere is unique in that it's chemical signature cannot unlike everything else in the Universe, be detected by spectroscopy. Moreover the effects of this atmosphere are completely invisible from earth based observers.
Once there, the aliens create hybrid Moonbies and alien clones to pass the time on Planet Moon..."

By the way, "weather" will be present whenever an atmosphere is present!

Originally posted by rikriley
I hope I clarified these great leaps of understanding for you and can not wait to hear what you have to say. Inside and outside the box. Rik Riley

You have done nothing of the sort. You're replies are nothing more than wild conjectures supported by sever misunderstandings of the basic principles of Physics and Astronomy, unfortunately this is all to common in today's world...
[edit on 11-4-2008 by timelike]

You say utter crap I say utter fact and you do not understand that I do understand the level of oxygen in the atmosphere on the planet Moon is dictated by the gravitational field around the planet moon. The Moon is being stealthed in many of the areas that you have your telescope pointed to on the surface of the Moon. If the Grey's and Moonbies want you to see things on the surface of the Moon thru your little telescope they will let you see, and if they do not they will stealth the areas they do not want you to see.

Here is your fallacy you believe what you have been told that the Planet Moon's gravity is 1/16 that of the Earth's gravity. I am saying it is nearer 2/3s of that of the Earth's gravity and that is why the oxygen is held in place by the stronger gravitational field of the planet Moon. Those photos of the astronauts bouncing on the Moon are in my opinion a fairy tale taken on a back lot or massive warehouse setting. I do believe the astronauts landed on the Moon but we on Earth were not in the loop and were not shown the real photos of what actually took place on the surface.

Of course there is weather you must have missed the occasional clouds. The Moons oxygen is denser in certain areas such as mined craters that are below the surface and because of the small variances in the gravity in certain places on the Earth's Moon.

Let me go over this with you again 45% of the Moons surface contains oxides made from Titanium and iron that combines to form what we call on Earth illeminate. I believe oxygen is extracted from the the illeminate by pressure heating from the nuclear reactors installed by the Greys and Moonbies who are light years ahead of we humans on Earth. You say where is the heat that is coming of the reactors? I believe it is sent inside the Moon looped around heat exchangers for further energy needs. I never said the Greys have the same biological needs as we humans on Earth maybe you think this to be true. The Greys have a much different biological engineered makeup then we humanoids on Earth. The greys do breath oxygen and other gases but not the identical mixture as we humans on Earth. The Greys receive most of there nutrients thru the pores of their skin by bathing in the nutrients verses humans ingesting food thru their mouths. The greys do not have the same type or composition of blood if you want to call it blood, compared to humans blood on Earth.

Yes I know what holograms are, but let me set you straight what I see and you do not, is transmitted reflective light images activated by full spectrum light shinning from the Sun off the surface of the Moon. The greys and Moonbies are using full spectrum 3D light transmitted holographic images similarly to that off a 3D photographic plate burned in by lasers. These images show what the Moonbies and lifeforms on the Moon look like in elaborate detail. No problem with the laser experiment the astronauts set up on the Moon to determine the distance from Earth and yes I believe they got the go ahead.Again I believe the Greys and Moonbies use lasers to burn in and create these holographic crystaline 3D images on the Moon. By the way you can throw out some of your taught physics and astronomy when it comes to the Moon. Rik Riley

[edit on 13-4-2008 by rikriley]

reply to post by rikriley


It is clear from your replies that your lack of very basic science combined with your fantastically whimsical beliefs will make further discussion quite pointless. What you don't seem to realise is that it is you who is believing as you are told. Why "Greys?" Because they are the currently accepted alien supplied by modern culture.

I could dismantle every one of your ridiculous claims and expose them as the creation of a fanatical mind. But what would be the point? I think it's unfortunate that some people find the Universe around a little bit too dull a place to live and need to fill it with more mystical things to make it more interesting. This is very sad because there is enough natural beauty and mystery in the Universe already. However, as with any doctrine, I must respect your belief system(s).

For readers just joining the argument, I will restate the my point once more for the final time:

1. We know the strength of the Moons gravitational field, it's mass and hence density by the fact that our space probes and spacecraft which have been sent to the Moon all achieved the desired orbits. If the Moon's gravitational field was substantially stronger (or weaker) spacecraft would soon go off course and we would be forced to revise the Moon's gravitational strength.

2. Atmosphere on the Moon. There is no substantial atmosphere on the Moon. For a start, the Moon's gravitational field is to weak to hold one. This combined with negligible magnetic field means that any atmosphere would soon be eroded by the solar wind. If we imagine that aliens have their "own laws" of physics and somehow can create an atmosphere there, this would be detected:

(i). Any atmosphere would distort the features beneath since it would act as a fluid with a different refractive index causing all kinds of refractive effects. Such effects have yet to be observed. I have examined the Lunar surface with many telescopes and always the features are crystal sharp.

(ii). Spectroscopy. Any Oxygen present on the Moon would be detectable by spectroscopy. Simply take the light from the Moon and look at it. If there is Oxygen there (no matter how close it is to the ground or the use of magical soils!) it's chemical signature will be unmistakable. I have yet to see oxygen present in a lunar spectra. remember that we can use this technique on extra solar planets to determine what they are composed of, so performing the same trick for the Moon is much easier.

(iii). Total eclipse. There would be a small appreciable halo around the Moon during a time of total eclipse as the suns light would illuminate such an atmosphere as the Moon passed in front of the Sun. needless to say this has never been seen. Incidentally, it was during a transit of Venus across the sun that it was realised that Venus had a thick atmosphere- there was a thick glow surrounding Venus which indicated the thick Venusian atmosphere.

3. Holographs Hiding Lunar features. The Moon does not, show completely the same side to us. In actual fact we see as much as 59% of the Lunar surface, though no more than 50% at any one particular time. As a result a phenomena called Librations occurs. During a libration we see further around the "dark side" of the Moon than usual (although these regions are decidedly foreshortened). The upshot of this means that the angles of the various mare and craters changes appreciably.

Any hologram would have to rapidly adapt, not only to this motion, but the motion of the terminator across the Lunar surface. Now, different places on the surface of the Earth have a slightly different view of the Moon, so it is hard to imagine how a hologram could take into account all of these complex motions and appear the SAME to everyone all over the Earth. Such holograms seem conspicuous by their absence. Rather than suggest a powerful alien technology is at work, I suggest they are not there.

I think that about concludes the discussion for me. It is interesting that this thread was re-opened, however such discussion become rapidly pointless if we cannot move past the first basic scientific hurdles. It's hard to kill a conspiracy theory I guess: rikriley best of luck with your research.

Best Wishes to all,

Timelike.




[edit on 14-4-2008 by timelike]

reply to post by timelike


timelike thanks for your participation in this discussion and time will hopefully tell in our lifetimes who is right or who is wrong about what is going on with the Moon. Rik Riley

reply to post by Jimbowsk

I've read all the posts on this thread and they seem to have got off topic. I've read the book you're talking about and I was stunned by the evidence and the conclusions! I was especially impressed by the quotes of various scientists who are baffled by the contradictions that the moon represents. Add to that the fact that NASA scientists were openly discussing the possibility that the moom is hollow (based on seismic data from left behind Apollo instruments) and Carl Sagan's quote that a hollow moon would be quite disturbing(because natural satellites can't be hollow) and you start to wonder. PLUS all of the mind-boggling coincidences of physical measurements like:
a) the sun is EXACTLY 400 times larger than the moon and EXACTLY 400 times further away and
b) the moon rotates at EXACTLY 100 meters per second (in order to keep the same side facing the Earth.
Those are just two of the many bizarre measurements revealed in the book. I was also surprised to discover that the 'proven' explanation of the moon's existence as having come from the earth as a result of a collision is NOT proven at all and in fact is now discredited because it requires ANOTHER collision later on to completely cancel all of the imparted spin from the original collision and the odds of two collisions that cancel each other out is so unlikely as to be dismissed as virtually impossible.
One more bizarre fact. The Earth has 81 times as much mass as the moon but only 6 times as much gravity.
I highly recommend this book. It's well researched, well written, and intelligently thought out. The conclusion will stun you! I guarantee it.