Dutch lawmaker says anti-Koran film almost finished

reply to post by Harman


I'm from Holland too and I'm having a bit of a hard time figuring out what Wilders really stands for and who's behind him.

I don't trust the Dutch government for one bit, especially the bigger parties. A lot of Dutch officials have attended Bilderberg meetings and I know for sure Holland is just as controlled by the NWO as America is, with a diiference in approach. Holland is kindoff a experiment to see how people react to a great deal of (illusionary) freedom., at least that's my theory.

It works pretty well for them I guess, cause we think we are so free and good and concerned with the world but in reality most people don't care or can't see what's really happening.

About Pim Fortuyn, he wasn't one of them, he wouldn't conform and would've really messed up things if he had been elected, wich he would've been.
He had to go, they killed him. The whoile story with that activist Volkert van de G. is fishy. Never heard anything about that guy again.

So at first I kinda liked what Wilders had to say. I'm definately no bigot or racist at all, but he expressed a lot of concerns that people have, especially the islamisation of Holland. It's pretty scary if you live in the big cities, wich I luckily don't. It's not nice to feel like a stranger in your own country.

But now I get the feeling he's just here to stir up things. The mediahype is crazy, and like you said, no one even knows or saw what's in the movie.
I don't know right now I don't trust anyone in politics.

Oh and the Islam religion needs to grow up and stop being such a big crybaby. So they made fun of Allah, boo-ffing-ho-hoo.
If you are convinced of and comfortable in your religion, why even take notice of some stupid cartoon?

[edit on 28/2/08 by enigmania]

[edit on 28/2/08 by enigmania]

Geert Wilders is a racist. He hates Arubians and Antilleans (who are Caribbean Dutch people) as well. Even though they are Dutch. He considers us foreigners in Holland. I was born with a Dutch passport and the vast majority of my ancestors where born with Dutch passports. I'm perhaps more than 10 generations Dutch. Still Geert Wilders would consider me a foreigner because of mainly my skin color, and because I was raised on Aruba (even though Aruba is Dutch).

But besides that. There are Caribbean Dutch people (Antilleans) who have caused much problems in the Netherlands with criminal behavior. But there are also European Dutch and others that have caused similar problems. Yet his focus is on the Muslims and the Caribbean Dutch.

And it is true that some Muslims in the Netherlands refuse to integrate into the society and want to push their ways and norms on everyone else.

To me it's like this. You don't have to give up your identity, but when you move to a different country you have to give and take.


You know what's also funny. My cousin is now being called the most successful Dutch footballer (soccer) of all time. Even more successful than Johan Cruyff. But ten years ago he was being called a Surinamese. Antilleans are not considered Dutch but foreigners. But Andruw Jones is considered a Dutchman.



[edit on 28-2-2008 by TheBandit795]

You know, i have to agree with ambushrocks on this one.
I'm from the Netherlands as well and this filmmaker has only one thing on his mind with this movie:

He just wants to draw a lot of attention in order to gain some more popularity.

This man doesn't really seem to have a political program. He's just taking on muslims.
Now, this is a smart move, because both the 9/11 attacks in the US and the killing of Fortuyn, created a lot of hate against muslims in the Netherlands.
So for now, his tactics seem to work, because even this forum is paying attention to his upcoming movie and even though a lot of people starting to dislike him, he will also gain more popularity under people who didn't knew him before.

reply to post by Speedjuh


That's true.. Notoriety is also fame.

Originally posted by Speedjuh
You know, i have to agree with ambushrocks on this one.
I'm from the Netherlands as well and this filmmaker has only one thing on his mind with this movie:

He just wants to draw a lot of attention in order to gain some more popularity.

This man doesn't really seem to have a political program. He's just taking on muslims.
Now, this is a smart move, because both the 9/11 attacks in the US and the killing of Fortuyn, created a lot of hate against muslims in the Netherlands.
So for now, his tactics seem to work, because even this forum is paying attention to his upcoming movie and even though a lot of people starting to dislike him, he will also gain more popularity under people who didn't knew him before.

yes, but that "attention" "notoriety" etc stems from the ISLAMIC reaction, if he was making a film about CHristianity he would hardly get any air time, because the Christian reaction would be much more low key and reserved

I remember Pim Fortuyn at the time of his run for office....and his subsequent MURDER. Assassination is too nice of a word, IMO.

Although an American living in the states it still bothered me to see such god awful things going on in a country (that has made it a policy to be non-confrontational and neutral)---even to the point of being a little irksome to me. But I've always RESPECTED these folks!

Over the intervening years I've watched with great dismay the troubles landing on the shores of our friends.

What is your Gaeert up to? Good question(s)....I'm holding out in favor of him being a man that is SICK TO DEATH (and PROBABLY WILL BECOME SO, LITERALLY...if the "offended party" has its way). Not saying that I want this scenario--only, this is how I see things gowing for any person or municipality standing-up against minorities who seek only THEIR own selfish interests against a gracious and unsuspecting host.

I firmly believe that if Mr.Fortuyn would've survived he would have managed the influx of radicals from ANY country much more effeciently. Perhaps only postponing the inevitable crimes against a nations' unique, freedom-loving soverenity. But most definitely your history would've taken a different path under a more "protective" leadership.

I was in Amsterdam, Holland in 1978 and felt myself as a fish outta water, coming from a very conservative American, mid-west background. But I immediately loved Holland, the natural beauty, the TULIPS (awesome!!!)and it's freedom-loving people!

Myself, I'm going to be following the fallout this movie will most likely bring about. I'll be even nore interested to see how it's handled by its citizens and government.

There should be no shame or repercussions for a people protecting their history and way of life....period.

I think this comment at the end of the article from the original post about the film says it all.

"The Netherlands was plunged into turmoil in 2004 when an Islamic militant killed director Theo Van Gogh over a television film accusing Islam of condoning violence against women.

The film's writer, Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, was forced into hiding by death threats, and the former lawmaker eventually left the Netherlands, saying life under guard was unbearable."

www.alertnet.org...

When Muslims are actively killing people who speak out against muslim aggression, it is time to stop being a pacifist, and start defending your way of life.

Originally posted by poet1b
I think this comment at the end of the article from the original post about the film says it all.

"The Netherlands was plunged into turmoil in 2004 when an Islamic militant killed director Theo Van Gogh over a television film accusing Islam of condoning violence against women.

The film's writer, Somali-born Ayaan Hirsi Ali, was forced into hiding by death threats, and the former lawmaker eventually left the Netherlands, saying life under guard was unbearable."

www.alertnet.org...

When Muslims are actively killing people who speak out against muslim aggression, it is time to stop being a pacifist, and start defending your way of life.

amen brother, correct, some people are hell bent on cultural and civilisation suicide, I think most will wake up- I hope it is an awakening of a strong democratic nature, as opposed to an extreme nationalistic one (which is possible)

Here is an excellent article about the situation in Germany.

www.iht.com...

The three Turkish authors are mounting a frontal assault on that kind of relativism. They are fighting on two fronts: against Islamist oppression of women and its proponents, and against the guilt-ridden tolerance of liberal multiculturalists. "Before I can get to the Islamic patriarchs, I first have to work my way through these mountains of German guilt," Ates complains.

Yeah you're right blueorder, the reaction will mainly come from the islamic community, but what i tried to explain (which is hard for me, because my english ain't that good) is:

Because of picking the muslims, he will get a huge reaction from non-muslims as well. Muslims are great to pick on. Not that i condone these actions but i think the islam is a very defensive relegion. They react far more earlier dan Christians or Jews would do. And because of that reaction, it creates more attention.

Sad but true, but in the main citíes, the hate against foreigners is growing even more and more. He just jumpes in on the right time on the right subject. This will gain him popularity and maybe it will take his party into the Dutch government.
I think that's his goal.

Another thing: deenamarie53 wondered what the Dutch government would do. So far, they said they would arrest and punish him if the movie insults the Islam too much.
So lets see how that works out.

reply to post by poet1b



True.. Europeans are being forced to feel guilty about the situation for no reason.

no no. you are missing the point.
if someone turns around and make a film on how evil he is, that person would be no better than him, and that would only perpetuate the misconception of free speech. my free speech shouldnt mean i can fabricate lies, or purposely abuse "free speech" and take it to the most literal and naive interpretaion.
---
no one should face jail or violence for this, as no one should be making a movie like this. because it has only one purpose. to fuel hatred. there is a time when the lines must be drawn.

------ i have the right to self defense, however, i cant simply kill a man if he bumps me while we're walking on the streets. can I ? is it up to me to decide what constitue of a life threatning "bump"?
can i walk up to a handicap person and shout disability epitaphs at him?
can i scream "die jew, die" on my neighbors porch?


the real question isnt can this man make his film, but should he make this movie. what is the only outcome of this. lets use common sense instead of using free speech as a pathertic excuse.


I think you might have missed the point of this movie. They arent making the movie to point out how evil they are they are making a point by trying to tell people how they are in general. God forbid they say anything about muslims. How about the nut in Iran he is actually saying die jew die on a podium isnt that worse than your porch and your neighbor. You dont hear any Muslims saying hey that is not right they are people to. When is a recognized Muslim person going to say wait a second why are we blowing up our own people in market places and in at weddings and such. This movie need to fuel hatred it needs to like we need air, maybe some Muslim people will start to point a finger at the people across thier city or country blowing up thier relatives and help less people. It doesnt take a bump in a lot of those countries it could take a lot less like simply believing in the same religion but having a different view about it. There is no free speech in the Muslim religion it is what the religion say's there is. Finnaly some one is standing up and is saying wait a second there is something wrong here what is it good for them.

This is what the extremists are waiting for! They will no doubt use this to recruit more young angry muslims.

Looks like the film maker will be assasinated/chopped up soon.

And Europeans will pay more and more attention to the threat that Muslims living in Europe pose, and they will start to take the necessary actions to end this threat. Start restricting welfare, start demanding kids attend local schools, learn the languages and the customs, and start providing shelters for girls and young women and protection from the muslim males who want to keep them locked up.

This is what is needed.

Well when this movie does air, I reckon our Gov in the UK will bend over backwards so far they will be able to kiss their own *** just to appease our Muslim population and at the same time help shoehorn certain elements of Sharia Law to keep em happy and undermine our own law.

I would also expect the French suburbs to take another battering from the "unhappy Muslim youth" and see even more rioting.

Please will someone stop the world...............I want to get off

Wolfie

This is ridiculous, both parts are wrong and everyone seems to ignore it. It's quite clear what this can generate, it's more OIL (lol) to burn the hate speeches.
I might sound a little bit pretentious but I won't be surprised if this movie finally continue the war Catholicism vs. Muslim.

And BTW, our freedom of speech does not give us the right to offend anyone just because we want to.

Just wanna say this:
I'm very whorried. When this very sad person brings out the movie , possibly all hell breaks lose. In the streets of the big cities in Holland and worldwide.

And its exactly what Wilders wants. Spreading hate. It wont solve any immigrant issues at all.
I am afraid people gonna die cause of this fascist.


I wanna say to all moslim people all over the world that Wilders does not represent the Dutch community at all. Its only a very small percentage of people that voted for him.
Most Duch people see him as a clown, a dangerous one also.

Freedom of speech is a great thing, respecting other beliefs and religions also. This movie gonna be a disaster for Holland.

Peace

Oh boy, this is a tough one. Just because it is OK to make a film like this; does it mean anyone should make a film like this? I don't see how this film serves any useful purpose.

I'd say that if the Muslims could learn to ignore this stuff it would stop and go away. I see lots of intolerance on both sides. There is no right side on this one. Just more hate to fuel the fire.

It is good to see these European nations start to wake up before it is too late. A film like this is just what is needed, and freedom of speech and freedom of the press does mean the right to criticize what you see as wrong, Even if it offends others.. What the muslim communities in Europe are doing is very wrong, and Europeans need to wake up before it is too late. The rise of intolerance has began again.

It is great to know that this film is being made and distributed. Considering the activities of these Muslim communities, it is over due for the press to start publicizing the ways that Muslims enslave their women, and bully people when they feel that they can get by with it. I hope it finds a very wide audience, let the Muslim populations protest. If they want to respond with violence, then they should expect that their actions will come back against them in the form of violence.

Originally posted by tunin
And BTW, our freedom of speech does not give us the right to offend anyone just because we want to.

actually yes, yes it does, this is a hallmark of our western culture for over a century, everyone gets it - politicians, the christians, etc


We have the right to act like assholes (although it will be a subjective view, I dont see this filmmaker as an asshole), and anyone who threatens violence over it, is the issue.

Ultimately, the dude would be given no airtime if the content of the film was not interesting / thought provoking- the followers of Islam needs to get up to speed by several hundred years if they are intent on dwelling in EUrope in large numbers.

Never forget that Islam is a relatively recent phenomenon (in significant numbers) in WesterN Europe- muslim immigrants have CHOSEN to come to the west for a better way of life, be it financially or even just to live a more FREE life. If those immigrants, or any of their offspring, or indeed any converts, feel the western way of life is incompatible with their view of Islam, they should leave to a suitably acceptable Islamic country.

Unfortunately the chattering classes in the UK have bowed down for too long under a veil of multi culturalism (still alive and kicking despite the smoke screens put up by New Labour- refer the benefits to men, aka, mainly muslim men, who have several wives)

Hundreds of thousands of non Islamic (mainly white) British people have been emigrating to Spain, Canada, New Zealand, Australia etc over the last decade- these Islamic british citizens have the same free choice to move away........

[edit on 29-2-2008 by blueorder]

[edit on 29-2-2008 by blueorder]